Should throw breaks be easier?

[magandi]

throws are not 50/50.

 

[SaSSolino]

throws are not 50/50.

Yes, they are. To break neutral or backwards throws you need to let go of block and press 1 or 3, while to break a forward throw you need to let go of block and press 2 or 4.

Since the startup is the same regarding of directions, breaking throws is a legit 50/50.

 

[Blakexton]

Let me change my buttons for a tech throw and I'll be happy.
1 + 2 for forward throw and 3 + 4 for back throw would be fine for me.

Either that or very slightly increase the window for a tech.

I'd also be happy with a flat 120 damage instead of either of these things.

 

[omooba]

You're right. To break neutral or backwards throws you need to let go of block and hold down, while to break a forward throw you need to let go of block and hold down.

Since the startup is the same regarding of directions, breaking throws is not a 50/50.

fixed

 

[Evil Canadian]

MK11 throws are perfect the way they are.

 

[ColdBoreMK23]

Should be one button but a tighter window to tech.

 

[versavices]

LOL

You will not tech every time because it's a 50-50. Astaroth would be garbage tier if this was true.

Having to let go of block to tech is a stupid decision that you will not find in any other fighting game ever.

Imagine street fighter needing you to not hold back to tech a throw LOL. That game doesn't even have 50-50s and evos are won with 5 throws in a row.

ANY system is better than this release block to tech. There is literally no logical reason for this system to be better than any other out there.

It makes perfect sense. Let’s say you get knocked down and you’re out of meter to wakeup/roll. You do a delayed getup and block immediately to stop the meaty. You crouch block because the enemy has a slower OH and you can react if it comes. Right now you can stop both options safely. Throws can be teched by just mashing escape buttons while blocking. Besides the 50/50, (that isn’t always a true 50/50 depending on screen position), you’re totally safe. This situation is wack.

I like that being able to stop one option, opens you up to the other. BUT if you’re good enough, you can stop both.

 

[Dreamcatcher]

Most people forward throw, unless they are switching you out of the corner. I think most players will realize this and adapt just like always. Then a few high level players are going to start trending side switching or some different mixup strategy involving throws and everyone will adapt again. The game is still pretty young to be demanding changes.

 

[scrubjesus111]

1. Yep.
2. The reason I do D+12 is because if my my opponent is not quick enough for the throw a d1 comes out instead, think of this OS as Crouch teching in Street Fighter.

I'll have to try that... if that's true then throws in MK11 are not 50/50, and the tech window is too large lol

 

[SaSSolino]

fixed

Nope, you're both still wrong. If we want to put it under those terms then throws become 50/50s with mids and lows.

 

[magandi]

what do you mean? of course you still have to guess if your opponent is going for a grab but the grad itself is not a 50/50 if you anticipate a grab

 

[UPR_Nova]

1. Watch for the throw animation
2. Input D+12
3. Watch your opponent freak out as you can now tech front & back throws.

Is there some sort of timing issue here? The reason I ask, I have found that whichever button gets placed into the buffer first is the one the game uses to determine which button you pressed to tech. For example, if 1 gets placed into the buffer first (according to the inputs in practice mode), I am able to tech back throws. Vice versa for if 2 is considered to be the first button input by the game.

To be clear, I have tried a couple of different methods. The first method was to attempt to press 1 and 2 simultaneously. This, for me at least, ALWAYS came into the buffer as 21. While it was considered simultaneous by the buffer (meaning it was on the same line as shown in practice), I couldn't get 12. Because of this, I could only tech forward throws and my attempts at breaking back throws always failed. The second method was to press d+1 and slide quickly to 2. This caused an issue because the buffer read 1 coming in first and I was prevented from breaking forward throws. To be thorough, I tried d+2 with a quick slide to 1 and the opposite happened; I couldn't break back throws.

I am probably doing something wrong in this case. If you could shed some light on what the issue is, that would be a tremendous help to myself and everyone here.

When facing a solid player, you can't always rely on screen positioning to determine the way to tech. One example is when a good player chooses to forward throw to begin the transition and patiently work out of the corner, rather than panic mash back throw. A solid OS would definitely help. It could be an issue though because I play Jax and that OS could very well force D12 to come out, which don't want every time.

 

[SHAOLIN]

Is there some sort of timing issue here? The reason I ask, I have found that whichever button gets placed into the buffer first is the one the game uses to determine which button you pressed to tech. For example, if 1 gets placed into the buffer first (according to the inputs in practice mode), I am able to tech back throws. Vice versa for if 2 is considered to be the first button input by the game.

To be clear, I have tried a couple of different methods. The first method was to attempt to press 1 and 2 simultaneously. This, for me at least, ALWAYS came into the buffer as 21. While it was considered simultaneous by the buffer (meaning it was on the same line as shown in practice), I couldn't get 12. Because of this, I could only tech forward throws and my attempts at breaking back throws always failed. The second method was to press d+1 and slide quickly to 2. This caused an issue because the buffer read 1 coming in first and I was prevented from breaking forward throws. To be thorough, I tried d+2 with a quick slide to 1 and the opposite happened; I couldn't break back throws.

I am probably doing something wrong in this case. If you could shed some light on what the issue is, that would be a tremendous help to myself and everyone here.

When facing a solid player, you can't always rely on screen positioning to determine the way to tech. One example is when a good player chooses to forward throw to begin the transition and patiently work out of the corner, rather than panic mash back throw. A solid OS would definitely help. It could be an issue though because I play Jax and that OS could very well force D12 to come out, which don't want every time.

Yea I can help. The best way to practice is to use Jacqui's stance cancel into throw and for each string do back throw and front throw and randomize it once done with recording, so that way you are focusing on when Jacqui grabs you to tech it, as far as timing goes.

When it comes to the inputs for teching throws you don't necessarily have to do crouch to do the OS, hell you could do 12 / 21 / 34 / 43 and it will still tech back and front.

Even when I was doing the OS I was still getting thrown so this is not 100%, it could be timing (idk). All i can say is watch for the arms to grab you THEN press 1 2. You don't have to do it fast because like someone said the window is fairly big, but for the sake of getting it on point do it as quickly as possible.

Hopefully this helps bro, because to be honest there's really nothing else I could add on to this, you just going to have to go in the lab and hash out the timing. But just know that once you've gotten it down some matchups are going to be a breeze.

 

[scrubjesus111]

I'm labbin it man, but my feeling is it's not a true option select -- it just occurred to me a reason why the devs would put the forward throw tech buttons on 2 and 4 - because if you could just OS the most common throws with a safe d1 then throws would become weak. With the forward throw tech buttons on 2 and 4 there isn't a safe OS for the forward throw

 

[TrapGodFax]

If it were up to me on how throws work in MK 11, i would change the way you input back throw and make it more like other fighters.
For example if i wanted to throw you behind me the input would be (B+1+2) instead of the default (1+2) to throw you behind me and have (1+2) be the default forward throw instead of having to hold forward when imputing (1+2)
just a thought i think it would make more common sense and help people make the transition to MK 11.

 

[omooba]

Nope, you're both still wrong. If we want to put it under those terms then throws become 50/50s with mids and lows.

then everything is a 50/50 including movement vs not movement
my point is if you think they're going to throw you never have to guess between forward or back throw never!

 

[SaSSolino]

then everything is a 50/50 including movement vs not movement
my point is if you think they're going to throw you never have to guess between forward or back throw never!

But that's not the point of this thread, is it?

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

if both players press throw at almost same time, it should be like a clinch up or something besides the earlier thrower getting it

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Yes. a little bigger window would be nicer. And remove the requirement to release block. If i guess the throw tech right, let me have it.

 

[UPR_Nova]

Yea I can help. The best way to practice is to use Jacqui's stance cancel into throw and for each string do back throw and front throw and randomize it once done with recording, so that way you are focusing on when Jacqui grabs you to tech it, as far as timing goes.

When it comes to the inputs for teching throws you don't necessarily have to do crouch to do the OS, hell you could do 12 / 21 / 34 / 43 and it will still tech back and front.

Even when I was doing the OS I was still getting thrown so this is not 100%, it could be timing (idk). All i can say is watch for the arms to grab you THEN press 1 2. You don't have to do it fast because like someone said the window is fairly big, but for the sake of getting it on point do it as quickly as possible.

Hopefully this helps bro, because to be honest there's really nothing else I could add on to this, you just going to have to go in the lab and hash out the timing. But just know that once you've gotten it down some matchups are going to be a breeze.

As long as I know that it isn't 100%, I'm good with it. I noticed the d1 come out in certain situations, I noticed it break in certain situations, but the break really depends on what button lands in that buffer first according to the game. Thanks for the clarification!

 

[omooba]

But that's not the point of this thread, is it?

pretty sure it's on topic

 

[sub_on_dubs]

I love when you read a throw and neutral duck then d2. Mmmm that sweet damage. Throws are fine though. People always complain about throws. I need to get on Forever Kings level. He rarely gets thrown.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

The window is very large to tech, as is. Also, the throw meta is generally relative to screen position, unless a specific throw grants better oki opportunities (For example, Jacqui). The game also isn't heavily reliant on high/low 50/50s as much as MKX for mixups.

It's fine. Asking for teching via throw input makes throw teching a lot less risky, considering jumps are really floaty this time around and there's often instances where you can jump out of a throw but your jump attack still doesn't land. Also, a big issue with Injustice was how weak throws were due to the large tech window + no 50/50 tech. I'd rather throws be strong. The game's offense isn't exceedingly layered enough to warrant a bad throw game, and they're already KB d2 fodder by being highs.

100% this^

Also throws are not true 50/50s, you are not forced to tech. There are multiple options to both evade throws and counter punish them:

Walk back
Some low profiling moves
Neutral Jump
Jump Back
Jump forward/crossover
Duck
D2

On top of this you can tech them if you guess wrong and don't evade the throw.
Back throw is 1 or 3 and forward throw is 2 or 4.
You can tech either by pressing 1+2 at the same time.
Using pushback is also useful to keep them out of range of throw.
Certain pokes and normals have pushback enough to make throw wiff.
Walking back is a great tool to make not only throw wiff but many Normals and pokes.

Throws are fine. Lab up responses and develop a plan to keep them out. Adapt instead of making the game cater to you.

 

[Baconlord]

The tech window is mad big right now lol. Also having to release block to tech is not a big deal at all

 

[Dreamcatcher]

100% this^

Also throws are not true 50/50s, you are not forced to tech. There are multiple options to both evade throws and counter punish them:

Walk back
Some low profiling moves
Neutral Jump
Jump Back
Jump forward/crossover
Duck
D2

On top of this you can tech them if you guess wrong and don't evade the throw.
Back throw is 1 or 3 and forward throw is 2 or 4.
You can tech either by pressing 1+2 at the same time.
Using pushback is also useful to keep them out of range of throw.
Certain pokes and normals have pushback enough to make throw wiff.
Walking back is a great tool to make not only throw wiff but many Normals and pokes.

Throws are fine. Lab up responses and develop a plan to keep them out. Adapt instead of making the game cater to you.

This is probably one of the best posts I've ever seen on this site. Lol