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This Is How They Get Away With It:" Former NetherRealm Studios Contract Devs Reveal a Troubling Studio Culture

ColdBoreMK23

Noob Saibot
Until you people take the risk of owning a business and all it involves, shut the fuck up about it already.

I come on here to read and discuss mortal kombat, not about some idiots who don't know how to negotiate a contract and cry about how hard their lives are.

Either do the fucking job or go somewhere else or investigate and do research about the career you're getting into.

I shadowed doctors and PA's for three years in college and knew what the lifestyle would be.

Gamefaqs 2.1.6.
 

Kanalratte

aka FROSTIE
lot of boot lickers in these threads.

nobody ever has a good explanation of why it needs to be like this. These games are immensely profitable, how can they not afford to pay their employees - who make the product that produces all the profit - better? Why are they so dead set on turn and burning a never ending mill of contractors instead of hiring people and maybe providing stability and a path to build a career on? If MKX can sell 11 MILLION copies (and who knows how much DLC cash cow money they milked out of it), why do conditions have to be so punitive and spiteful to their employees?

We all know why. So a handful of shareholders and CEOs can pad their already swollen bank accounts, that's why. So leeches that had nothing to do with producing the product can sit around and hoard obscene amounts of cash while the people actually creating the product go home exhausted, broke, and suffering from conditions they can't treat because these vampires won't even provide them with a health insurance plan.

sounds like a great set up. Nope, can't see any reason to change this ever.
sadly, this is how the world works nowadays. the rich get richer and the normal joe's do the hard work.
 

ColdBoreMK23

Noob Saibot
sadly, this is how the world works nowadays. the rich get richer and the normal joe's do the hard work.

The rich take risks with their money and resources. The "normal joes" just go through life without a care.

If a business goes belly up, the employee finds a new job while the employer is bankrupt. Risk/Reward.

Life isn't a handout.
 
This implies that the employees have zero power. That isn't true at all.

In fact, the contractors actually had NRS by the balls and didn't even realize it!

Once crunch started, you had an entire labor force who were all relatively trained. You're not going to go into crunch with a bunch of people who don't know what they're doing.

The contractors did not mobilize, did not communicate, and did not band together. Imagine how CRIPPLING it would have been if the entire NRS contracted workforce had mobilized and staged a walkout, solvable only with a signed agreement of better pay and additional benefits, along with contracted (on NRS side) requirement about treatment!!!

First of all, the media backlash would have been unbelievable. If it got out that a contracted workforce had essentially unionized and staged what amounts to a strike, then ALL the dev studios would have been afraid of it!

On top of that, MK11 would have taken a HUGE hit if NRS had to come forward and say "We are delaying the release of MK11 because our workforce is on strike." That would have raised questions, and people on strike would have told their stories of low pay, long hours, and poor treatment.

It would have looked MUCH better if NRS could publicly come out and say "We are delaying the release of MK11 so that we can ensure the health of our contracted work force during the most crucial time of development. Our workforce is the essential building block of the games we create and we believe that a additional 2 months delay in order to ensure their health is worth the wait". That turns NRS into heroes, instead of them being demonized.

Again, there is accountability on both sides. They shouldn't have been treated that way, but instead of allowing themselves to be pitted against each other, they should have worked together to fight for themselves, better wages, better hours, and better treatment.
I've seen the management side of this interaction. They had 0 leverage. I can bet money the answer is "fire them and push back the release if needed'

Edit-

And i will say that while i find these practices deplorable it is very much a problem that the market has so many people willing to do it. On the one side you absolutely have companies trying to make sure this continues to be the status quo(which is where the shady shit comes in, see disney being sued by animators), but the whole reason it's this way in the first place is simply because there's more than enough people who are willing to work their "passion" and will be treated like trash doing it.
 

Tanya-Fan-28

TanyaShouldBeInMK11
I feel like people accept the job the same way they open student loans. Its usually situational circumstances when they're in debt because not everyone is rolling in cash to go straight into courses but they NEED to make something of their life so they go through it despite the risks. The way the work environment persuades the need to keep a living and roof over your head can in fact get people stuck and impede any chance for a better opportunity. Its not something they do for fun, and I think leaving a job in general is a lot more complex than "why did you accept the job" or "why don't you just leave?". On top of that there's always confrontation to quitting a job
 

MrWarMachine

Jacqui/D'Vorah 2020
I wish it was easier for game devs, the shit they are forced to deal with would not work in companies where the business is easier to understand and there is less money involved.

Everyone loves throwing out the Union card (myself included) but it's not that simple and would require a whole lot of shifts in infrastructure to happen, I hope we see it someday because this shouldn't be an industry standard.
 

aj1701

Noob
They NEEDED those hours. They were getting paid barely enough to begin with. How people do all this mental gymnastics to justify a fucked system is beyond me.
Oh give me a fucking break. If you're a halfway decent programmer, you can EASILY find a job paying good money without all the BS alleged in the article. But if someone is only willing to program for video games, that's their problem, not the industries. Same thing goes for actors, football players and musicians. All of those are a dime a dozen and only a few will make it. If you can't handle that, do something else.
 

aj1701

Noob
It’s not a 50/50 case when one party is a multi million dollar business and the other is a minimum wage contractor with no rights.
It is when the contractor has one of the hottest skill sets (programming) in the current economy.
 

Xelz

Go over there!
I've seen the management side of this interaction. They had 0 leverage. I can bet money the answer is "fire them and push back the release if needed'

Edit-

And i will say that while i find these practices deplorable it is very much a problem that the market has so many people willing to do it. On the one side you absolutely have companies trying to make sure this continues to be the status quo(which is where the shady shit comes in, see disney being sued by animators), but the whole reason it's this way in the first place is simply because there's more than enough people who are willing to work their "passion" and will be treated like trash doing it.
Exactly, you nailed the underlying cause. Excess supply of labor/workers for a given job results in too much competition for available positions, so workers lose leverage. People can talk about contractors unionizing, but those contractor positions are a) less integral than the FTEs, b) easier to fire and replace during a strike, and c) easier to offshore if push comes to shove.

Interestingly, my friend who used to work in video game QA and left because of all the reasons already discussed now does QA for a server company. Guess what? Similar work, but better pay, work/life balance, and career advancement. Why? Because waaaaaay too many people apply for video game QA because they want to break into the game industry, and fewer people are motivated to work on servers or server software.

This phenomenon is also referred to as "intrinsic value" in a job, where more workers are drawn to a certain job because of value beyond pay, i.e. job enjoyment (think fire fighters, teachers, police officers, park ranger, actors, etc.). The problem is a lot of people assume QA and other jobs in video games in general will provide that intrinsic value, so they agree to work for poor compensation, and then find out there isn't enough enjoyment in the job to offset the low income and benefits, and the odds for career advancement is less than they anticipated. Up until recently new workers didn't know how bad things were until it was too late, so at least the media attention is giving prospective workers the opportunity to make an informed decision.

In the meantime, there's currently very poor balance between labor supply and demand in this market. That doesn't change the need for better laws and regulation regarding contractors. But there will always be fundamental and underlying problems as long as excess labor supply exists.

I'll make one last comment about NRS before departing this thread, since it's devolving into people spouting naive rhetoric. Very few organizations, whether companies, governments, unions, or whatever, are 100% purely good or purely evil. Even the best have flaws, and what we learned is that NRS has a flaw that's consistent with practically every other triple A developer. That doesn't automatically negate the good they do. The diversification of their roster, of helping to break down gender stereotypes in fighting games, of producing a quality product (with some flaws of its own) on a regular basis. And while they have issues with contractors, they also converted 16bit from QA contractor to FTE, made him a regular lead in their Kombat Kasts, gave him a platform to become a minor video game celebrity, and this year began featuring additional QA analysts on the stream. How many studios have provided that same opportunity for anyone in their QA staff?

Raising general awareness of the plight of contractors in this and other industries is productive. Specifically raking NRS over the coals is not.

Edit: Typo
 
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aj1701

Noob
Actors and football players have unions, and it's improved things for them dramatically compared to what it used to be.
I believe you need to get a certain level to be in the union; for example, HS and college football players don't have a union as far as I know, only the NFL.

And frankly a union isn't needed; its not like you can program only for video games or not. If you can program for video games you can program, and thus you've got TONS of options. I work in software, there's not a need for a union, because the employees/contracts have the power because the skill is in such high demand.
 

Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
I believe you need to get a certain level to be in the union; for example, HS and college football players don't have a union as far as I know, only the NFL.

And frankly a union isn't needed; its not like you can program only for video games or not. If you can program for video games you can program, and thus you've got TONS of options. I work in software, there's not a need for a union, because the employees/contracts have the power because the skill is in such high demand.

I think for programming whether a union makes sense or not depends on the nature of the job/work. If it's a higher a level job that requires a higher level skill set a union probably isn't needed, because there's going to be fewer qualified candidates. So not all software jobs would benefit or need a union.

But if it's on the lower skill demand end, where the company can draw from a bigger pool, I think having a union makes more sense, at least for the workers. Not to say forming and having a union is without costs to the consumer, or that unions always work perfectly.
 

Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
If you really want to look at a crappy situation regarding pro sports players, check out minor league baseball.
 
Nor is it exclusive to just the entertainment industry.

"Crunch", or whatever they call it in each industry, always exists.
"Crunch", more or less, will probably always exist in some form in games. At a certain point there's just too much stuff to do and not enough time to do it all. Lost work is a part of the process: you have to be willing to recognize that something you worked on just isn't working, isn't fun, whatever. Scrapping work and pivoting away will cost you manhours. Prototyping and iterating takes time. For a big studio (or publicly traded publisher), delays affect investor confidence. For a small studio delays can be very tough on your bottom line. I wish it was never necessary, and it can always be reduced/improved by proper planning and process changes. Ideally, games would almost never be announced until they were in their final stages of development, but that would undermine the constant announcement/hype building arms race you see in games today (and publishers planning their releases per quarter).

With that said, crunch isn't a catch-all excuse for all forms of exploitation. People can still be fairly compensated for their time. Extended periods of crunch are damaging to employee health and morale, even if they're young and "can take it". Dangling almost entirely false promises of full-time employment, etc. "Crunch" doesn't even rank highly on my list of the things it sounds like NRS needs to improve upon, particularly regarding contract employees.
 

Pizza

Thrill Kill
Until you people take the risk of owning a business and all it involves, shut the fuck up about it already.

I come on here to read and discuss mortal kombat, not about some idiots who don't know how to negotiate a contract and cry about how hard their lives are.

Either do the fucking job or go somewhere else or investigate and do research about the career you're getting into.

I shadowed doctors and PA's for three years in college and knew what the lifestyle would be.

Gamefaqs 2.1.6.
lol calm down

You're not better than anyone else, dipshit.
 

Vagrant

Noob
The rich take risks with their money and resources. The "normal joes" just go through life without a care.
Until you people take the risk of owning a business and all it involves, shut the fuck up about it already.

I come on here to read and discuss mortal kombat, not about some idiots who don't know how to negotiate a contract and cry about how hard their lives are.
Ladies and gentleman, this is a perfect example of the type of person to make sure you don't turn into.

Regardless of how much success you find in life, never let yourself go full piece of shit like this.
 
Until you people take the risk of owning a business and all it involves, shut the fuck up about it already.

I come on here to read and discuss mortal kombat, not about some idiots who don't know how to negotiate a contract and cry about how hard their lives are.

Either do the fucking job or go somewhere else or investigate and do research about the career you're getting into.

I shadowed doctors and PA's for three years in college and knew what the lifestyle would be.

Gamefaqs 2.1.6.
can you tell me more about the risks that the NRS and WB CEOs and shareholders have? because i think they can fuck up as big as they want and still fly out with a golden parachute. what you say might apply to a local store but not these companies.
 

aj1701

Noob
I think for programming whether a union makes sense or not depends on the nature of the job/work. If it's a higher a level job that requires a higher level skill set a union probably isn't needed, because there's going to be fewer qualified candidates. So not all software jobs would benefit or need a union.

But if it's on the lower skill demand end, where the company can draw from a bigger pool, I think having a union makes more sense, at least for the workers. Not to say forming and having a union is without costs to the consumer, or that unions always work perfectly.
No software jobs would benefit from a union. It's not like programming a video game is any more difficult or easier than a database app or web application. It's just different libraries and patterns. The skills are completely transferable, the only thing that changes is the problem domain, and that can be picked up in a year or two.

I did get into programming because i wanted to make games too, but that's not where i ended up. And a union would do me more harm than good.
 

aj1701

Noob
and they don't get paid. Imagine that.
Yes, and they do so on the stupid delusion they'll get drafted to go pro. Oh, and they're also supposed to be in college to earn a hopefully (useful) degree, not play a stupid game. Then when they don't get drafted, they'll be able to get a useful job.

But they chose to play under those terms because they have done silly dream, just like the supposed contractors in the article. They don't have to play football at all, they can choose something else they have a better shot at actually doing well with.