Why time controlling Kronika will never make sense and is a bad idea

[Poto2222]

This kind of whiny threads about story belongs to MKO, honestly.

Don't @ me.

 

[mattteo]

This kind of whiny threads about story belongs to MKO, honestly.

Don't @ me.

Is there a rivalry and division between online forums? Didn't know I had to be aware of this....

 

[BecomingDeath13]

@Poto2222
Oops...

 

[Poto2222]

@Poto2222
Oops...

I said don't @ me bruh watchu doin

 

[ShepherdOfFire]

@Poto2222

 

[Jynks]

Every NRS game has to have time travel involved cause the writers at NRS studios suck ass and need a crutch like time travel to keep things mildly interesting.

It isn't that at all. They have time travel in them as they are in a hole creatively due to the way people consume game media.

To have an interesting story, you need risk. There has to be stakes. Also the MK universe by its very nature is bloody and violent. So when designing a story, you have to have perma death. Mileena or Baraka being killed by D'vorah for example. For a MK story to be taken seriously it needs deaths to actually happen, or it will devolve into a A-Team like TV show where they sprayed machine gun fire every night at 9 and only jeeps crash into walls and people fly into the air when a bomb goes off in the dirt next to them.

The problem is that we, well at least I, do not give a shit about the story when considering gameplay. I mean I love what MK story mode has turned into since MKvDC but when I actually PLAY the game, I want my favourite characters to be available. Everyone has favourite characters so that "need" covers the entire cast.

So the writers are in a paradox of sorts. You can't kill anyone, as anyone needs to be available to be in the next show, but they do not want to turn MK into a crappy marvel film and have it a kind of kids cartoon that has no death or consequences.

Time Travel seems to me to be a pretty good alternative to bring back these beloved characters that were written out in fun and interesting ways in previous story. Especially considering the lukewarm reception that some of the new "spiritual successor" characters had in sections of the community. (not me I loved Cassie, Jackie and co!)

MK has some of the best story modes in gaming, and easily the best in fighting games, despite its flaws anyway.

 

[usedcarsalesmang]

It isn't that at all. They have time travel in them as they are in a hole creatively due to the way people consume game media.

To have an interesting story, you need risk. There has to be stakes. Also the MK universe by its very nature is bloody and violent. So when designing a story, you have to have perma death. Mileena or Baraka being killed by D'vorah for example. For a MK story to be taken seriously it needs deaths to actually happen, or it will devolve into a A-Team like TV show where they sprayed machine gun fire every night at 9 and only jeeps crash into walls and people fly into the air when a bomb goes off in the dirt next to them.

The problem is that we, well at least I, do not give a shit about the story when considering gameplay. I mean I love what MK story mode has turned into since MKvDC but when I actually PLAY the game, I want my favourite characters to be available. Everyone has favourite characters so that "need" covers the entire cast.

So the writers are in a paradox of sorts. You can't kill anyone, as anyone needs to be available to be in the next show, but they do not want to turn MK into a crappy marvel film and have it a kind of kids cartoon that has no death or consequences.

Time Travel seems to me to be a pretty good alternative to bring back these beloved characters that were written out in fun and interesting ways in previous story. Especially considering the lukewarm reception that some of the new "spiritual successor" characters had in sections of the community. (not me I loved Cassie, Jackie and co!)

MK has some of the best story modes in gaming, and easily the best in fighting games, despite its flaws anyway.

it seems like you think that Thanos's infinity gauntlet or dragonballs is weak sauce and that time travel is a better alternative.

The MK universe doesn't need time travel to bring characters back from the dead as evidenced from MK9 and MKX when fighters were brought back as zombies after being killed. Despite that, NRS continues to use time travel in most if not all of their stories.

Maybe Kronika will get fatalitied and end the vicious cycle of time travel in the MK universe cause i'm bored of watching Doctor Whos next.

 

[Jynks]

it seems like you think that Thanos's infinity gauntlet or dragonballs is weak sauce and that time travel is a better alternative.

Are you crazy? How do you think Disney is going to write themselves out of Infinity Wars... Time Travel. I have never watched dragonball so know nothing about it.

 

[usedcarsalesmang]

Are you crazy? How do you think Disney is going to write themselves out of Infinity Wars... Time Travel. I have never watched dragonball so know nothing about it.

We already know whats going to happen with infinity wars they are going to be resurrected. The movies are based on decades old comics, you fool.

Try using google for once

 

[Jynks]

you need to read them again then. The entire plot centres around the time infinity stone of Strange and AntMan existing outside of time in the micro dimension. The story is all about time travel.

 

[MKF30]

Because everyone is blindly defending the game to the point where even a topic for fun or speculations or just asking questions the first thing people do is immediately trash the guy who made it. I guess you can only praise the game and never make ANYTHING that can be seen as negative/criticizing. He doesnt have to play the games story to start a discussion.

There's a ranting thread for that and secondly, there was a time where people just trashed the game as well. But I think there's a difference between trashing a game, defending a game and flat out making pointless threads that nobody cares about ultimately. It's like saying "hey Johnny Cage fell out of a chopper at least 10 stories in MK X story fighting Scorpion, in real life he would die"

Me: It's umm fiction, who gives a shit?

When you sit back and watch a cartoon, play a game, watch a movie with superheroes that defy gravity due to magic or the color of a sun do you question it or do you just relax and enjoy it?

I think the latter majority feel here about MK otherwise let's face it, this site would not exist if they didn't.

 

[Jynks]

It is interesting... it reminds me of what happened at GateWorld.. that was a forum kinda like this one for Stargate. What happened is that there was a show called Stargate Universe that came out which split the community. A very vocal portion of GateWorld flooded the forums with hate threads and stuff and it became such a thing that they ended up making a policy about it to try and remove those users from the site. Very drastic, but the admins reasoning has merit.

Basically TYM and GateWorld are FAN SITES and placed for fans to chat and interact in a safe positive place about their chosen fandom, in out case MK and in GateWorld's the Stargate IP.

The question the mods at GateWorld had is when does a fan site stop being a fan site, when does it start to fail at its original reason for being, as in a place for fans to go and chat about stuff they like.

I think there is a big difference between FanDom and being a FanBoy. Fanboys to me are people that see no wrong, Fans are just people that really like something. FanBoys can not take any criticism, but fans can criticise.. but here is the thing.. They are usually positive due to a underlying love.

I do not think TYM needs to do something as drastic as GateWorld did. I mean we do not get 1000s of registrations a day or anything most only posting once or twice..... but at what point do fans, who just want to enjoy the MK universe chat about it and give NRS a chance to do something cool have start to feel that TYM is no longer a place for them to interact due to cynical and annoying posts just going on and on and on in a negative way.

It is already getting to a point when a thread pops up and a good portion of the site is like... omg.. just shut up until you at least try it yourself!!

 

[Rice]

Everything that gives me the Shaolin Monks beating the shit out of their Revenants future selfs is a good idea in my book.

Also fun fact Kronika is future Eleven that got corrupted without the consumption of Eggos.

 

[MKF30]

Really curious to see what Kronika's backstory is, I don't think she's anything like Eleven honestly. Eleven was an experiment gone wrong but cool. Kronika is just some sort of deity/time Goddess from a far trying to play chess with the MKU.

 

[Krankk]

Holy shit, that was actually super good. And my head hurts.

I know, right!

 

[AbeW]

Time travel in fiction....oh, boy, where do I start? For all of you who think you've seen good fiction concerning time travel, let me just remind you than all of them had absolutely one thing in common: when traveling into the past you will do so because you have always travelled into the past and everything you do there has already happened.

This was the case in the original Terminator film.

The same in 12 Monkeys (original) or The Planet of the Apes.

The same in Lost's season 4.

Because....if we go by the Denzel Washington movie or the Back to the Future comedy or the Marvel and DC comics, you basically pull a universe with entire planets and solar systems and billions of people out of your ass every time you travel back in time because that creates a new timeline. Full of palpable things like you and I. Whoa....wait a second. You're telling me that everytime someone goes back in time, such a power is released that it creates a new Earth filled with everything on it? And not just that, but a new Moon and a new Jupiter and a new Sun and an entire space beyond it in which history happens differently than in the original timeline??

Ok, but you say you will accept this because it's Mortal Kombat, it's stupid fun and we don't care about logic. Supposedly these characters have magic powers and why couldn't they actually create a new universe? Well, for starters, because that power would generate so muuuuch content that if some God like Raiden had it when he sent a message back in time to himself to create an entire new universe, he could have basically punched Shao Kahn with the force of a thousand planets (eat that Dragon Ball, Goku only moved a planet off its axis!).

People were already complaining about little stuff from MK9, saying the writing was bad because the rules of the tournament weren't explained properly and how come Johnny Cage had to fight 2 times in a row (Baraka and Reptile), was that just bad writing? But now......we're at a totally different level.

There are some very intelligent people like BruskPoet, @Charybdis, Razors_Edge following the lore. Are you telling me these guys will not pick on a story of time travelling?

It will have one or more of the following flaws:

1. If Kronika is pissed that Shinnok lost, why didn't she turn back the time after MK4? It was exactly the same situation as today.

2. If Kronika brings fighters from the past, does that mean that there will be a period in everyone's past when they missed several days because they were teleported to the future? Or will they be brought back to the exact moment in which they were taken? If so, why will they not remember anything?

3. If Kronika takes them from an alternate timeline, not this one, does this mean that there are infinite timelines? Cause surely in the original timeline many lay dead after the Armageddon battle. And if there are infinite timelines, why does Kronika actually care about THIS timeline and why is it so important that in this timeline she reverses things?

4. If there are timelines from which Kronika brings the fighters from, why not bring infinite versions of fighters?

5. If she just rewinds time, then why doesn't she rewind time even further, to a point where she can actually kill Liu Kang or Kung Lao or whoever defies her as a baby?

6. If these characters from the present go to the past and meet their past selves, does that mean that they have always been in the past? Then, if so, why don't they remember themselves from their own past?


Ok, I'm sure you'll tell me "the game ain't even out yet, wait for the godamn game before you start complaining!!" Yeah, I'm sure. But I'm just pointing things that will be dumb, there's no way to solve them. The lore will be screwed up big time all because they couldn't think of anything else than time traveling to bring back original era costumes?? Ok, they saw with MK9 that nostalgia means milking money from casuals, but I'm sure they could have found another way that didn't involve time travel.

They did parallel universe stories with Injustice and think it's gonna work here too, that not too many people will be asking questions because it's just a fighting game. Well, alternate dimensions in Marvel and DC haven't aged well, they were a poor idea and the infinite part of them has already been retconned (DC has settled as far as I know on 52 universes, God knows why that number).

In real physics, parallel universes have nothing to do with similar versions of you or I, they're a very different concept in string theory and other physics concepts.

Blah blah blah, shut up and fight beztch

 

[ShepherdOfFire]

When you sit back and watch a cartoon, play a game, watch a movie with superheroes that defy gravity due to magic or the color of a sun do you question it or do you just relax and enjoy it?

It depends, if a cartoon, video game or a movie defines in its rules that flying super heroes are allowed, then there is no problem with it. If in a space opera a "sun" is green and there a valid reason behind it, then why not. It will probably raise some eyebrows in the audience but as long that it is justified in the script, that's okay.

It's like saying "hey Johnny Cage fell out of a chopper at least 10 stories in MK X story fighting Scorpion, in real life he would die"

Maybe JC is strong enough to survive this, but imo it's just poor writing.

Me: It's umm fiction, who gives a shit?

Some people give a shit. Some people are only looking for feelings when watching a movie, they don't care about consistency, logic ect... Some people want to see action, and some people want to see well written stories. Personnally I have trouble to get invested in a story that is inconsistent with its own rules (or the rules of the previous Installments in case of a sequel), that is too convenient and/or poorly written.

People above talked about Infinity War, so I'll pick this film as an exemple. Let's imagine the scene when Thor is fighting Thanos, unfortunately he snaps his fingers and 50% of all life forms on Earth are killed. But right after, Thor says to Thanos "C'mon bro, that's mean." and Thanos replies "Yeah you're probably right". He takes his golden gauntlet back and snaps again, restoring everything that was killed by the first snap and says "I'm sorry for the inconvenience" and goes back on his planet. FIN

What do you mean it doesn't make sense ? It's umm fiction, who gives a shit ?

 

[Barrogh]

I, for one, sorta dislike time-travelling-alternate-universe gimmicks in fiction, but mostly because they are often used when authors run out of more elegant ideas. We've been discussing this at length about 1.5 years ago here. So, there's that.

YMMV, ofc.

 

[John Grizzly]

I didn't read any of that but I disagree anyway.

 

[MKF30]

It depends, if a cartoon, video game or a movie defines in its rules that flying super heroes are allowed, then there is no problem with it. If in a space opera a "sun" is green and there a valid reason behind it, then why not. It will probably raise some eyebrows in the audience but as long that it is justified in the script, that's okay.


Maybe JC is strong enough to survive this, but imo it's just poor writing.



Some people give a shit. Some people are only looking for feelings when watching a movie, they don't care about consistency, logic ect... Some people want to see action, and some people want to see well written stories. Personnally I have trouble to get invested in a story that is inconsistent with its own rules (or the rules of the previous Installments in case of a sequel), that is too convenient and/or poorly written.

People above talked about Infinity War, so I'll pick this film as an exemple. Let's imagine the scene when Thor is fighting Thanos, unfortunately he snaps his fingers and 50% of all life forms on Earth are killed. But right after, Thor says to Thanos "C'mon bro, that's mean." and Thanos replies "Yeah you're probably right". He takes his golden gauntlet back and snaps again, restoring everything that was killed by the first snap and says "I'm sorry for the inconvenience" and goes back on his planet. FIN

What do you mean it doesn't make sense ? It's umm fiction, who gives a shit ?

My point is they often explain it to enough that should satisfy the average viewer(especially if it's a cartoon, as cartoons tend to exaggerate a lot more than live shows, movies) People who try to break down Superman with "technically this, technically that etc, etc" they're missing the point of a Superman story. That alone should justify it for most people since he's not even human and all, the science and effect of the red sun as oppose to the yellow sun is explained in the lore.

JC is indeed strong enough as he's a metahuman with powers, so no doubt he can tank it but I don't see how that's poor writing when these guys in this universe still fight and heal after breaking bones and getting impaled. Even in the comics this rule applies if you've read the MK X comics especially. I think it's good writing if anything since it shows just how strong MK characters are, usually on sites like comicvine a lot of ignorant people think MK characters are "mere street levelers" which is beyond wrong for anyone who actually follows MK lore.

That's true, I see what you're saying however I think the viewer should go into the movie knowing that (let's say they're watching for feelings) then watching a superhero movie or a movie like say Child's Play may not be the best choice (unless you want to feel creeped out or scared then of course CP is a good choice) If you're looking for say romance or something, I probably wouldn't recommend it. But more so to my point, if you're going to see a fictional story, try not to take it too seriously as their rules don't apply to ours and the main reason people write these stories is to escape reality. Even Ed admitted this years ago in MK's case "nobody wants to pay for reality" I couldn't agree more with that statement. I think often a lot of people may feel a certain series may be inconsistent but won't explain why, they often confuse it with being convoluted but will be consistent just tough to follow. I have no issues with time travel stories so long as they explain it to a degree. I don't like stories that literally do nothing to explain time travel or just instantly put you there without any reason for it.

Just so you know I was using MK as an example, not so much IW which most enjoyed(me personally I'm more of a DC guy, I prefer darker, grittier stories) but as a comic fan, they changed Thano's reasoning for that movie as you probably know as oppose to the comics. The thing about fiction is it's not real at the end of the day, when the so called "movie critics" rant on about "technically this wouldn't be possible" in a movie where people fly, punch others through buildings and survive, have time travel or still fight after breaking bones. It just tells me they ultimately miss the point of the story or why the creators made this stuff for us.

Not like it's to escape reality or anything....

 

[marietta1200]

‘Primer’ is a good one for time travel nerds.

Anywayz…

 

[ShepherdOfFire]

I get what you mean, but it shouldn't be like this. Like I said, rules are important in story telling, and breaking these rules for the sake of entertainement is a terrible idea.

The thing about fiction is it's not real at the end of the day, when the so called "movie critics" rant on about "technically this wouldn't be possible" in a movie where people fly, punch others through buildings and survive, have time travel or still fight after breaking bones. It just tells me they ultimately miss the point of the story or why the creators made this stuff for us.

Yes but it ruins the immersion. You can send a message to the audience through your movie and still have a well written story. If you break the rules of your universe in order to create a scene just to make your audience feel something, then the movie will probably suffers from poor writting.

I can understand that for a game like MK11 where you have to build a story around a pre defined roster and you need to find a fast way to bring every dead character back to life, but it will probably be a poorly written scenario.

when the so called "movie critics" rant on about "technically this wouldn't be possible" in a movie where people fly [...]

Movie critics have the right to complain about inconsistencies, it's part of the purpose of criticism. It doesn't make them "bad" movie critics. I'd take more seriously someone that complains about technical stuff rather than someones that says "It gave me emotions so that's okay to me".

 

[MKF30]

I get what you mean, but it shouldn't be like this. Like I said, rules are important in story telling, and breaking these rules for the sake of entertainement is a terrible idea.



Yes but it ruins the immersion. You can send a message to the audience through your movie and still have a well written story. If you break the rules of your universe in order to create a scene just to make your audience feel something, then the movie will probably suffers from poor writting.

I can understand that for a game like MK11 where you have to build a story around a pre defined roster and you need to find a fast way to bring every dead character back to life, but it will probably be a poorly written scenario.



Movie critics have the right to complain about inconsistencies, it's part of the purpose of criticism. It doesn't make them "bad" movie critics. I'd take more seriously someone that complains about technical stuff rather than someones that says "It gave me emotions so that's okay to me".

Of course, but I mean that's why I said as long as the rules, reasons etc are explained and not just "this person can do this because he can or we'll randomly time jump without any reasons at all" kind of scenario where it feels forced or lazy. I mean nothing is perfect at the end of the day, but I do feel in MK's case they do a pretty solid job of explaining things in their games.

I personally don't like to assume and like to experience it for myself before I judge, so far I think they've done a good job at explaining bringing people back. Quan-Chi did it in MK X and he's a master necromancer of a sorcerer it's his thing and thus it made sense. Now if everyone came back for the hell of it, I can see the audience not being satisfied with that scenario but I do think there's a difference between a picky audience not being satisfied with anything the writer throws at them, and the story explaining something only to be misunderstood by some people and then those who just accept this is how things work in this particular world(as oppose to comparing it to the real world) at the end of the day movies, games, shows etc are just that for entertainment value.

Yeah but most of the time they're often wrong, ignorant or personally biased ie when you rate movies like new ghostbusters which was pretty much feminist trash over shawshank redemption, and BVS there's something wrong there. They have a right to their opinion, but it doesn't mean they can't be wrong and/or politically biased which now days is all they really go by as to why I don't take them seriously.

 

[Barrogh]

Not like it's to escape reality or anything....

Well, in order for that to work you need to be able to suspend you disbelief. Depending on viewer, leaving holes in reasoning may get in the way of that.

 

[SinkFla]

I've got 30 minutes until I get off work. This seems like a good time waster!

Because....if we go by the Denzel Washington movie or the Back to the Future comedy or the Marvel and DC comics, you basically pull a universe with entire planets and solar systems and billions of people out of your ass every time you travel back in time because that creates a new timeline. Full of palpable things like you and I. Whoa....wait a second. You're telling me that everytime someone goes back in time, such a power is released that it creates a new Earth filled with everything on it? And not just that, but a new Moon and a new Jupiter and a new Sun and an entire space beyond it in which history happens differently than in the original timeline??

I don't understand the exercise of taking something that's already completely illogical (time travel itself) and finding faults within the logic of the time travel story being told. Why do new universes spring up every time where time travel comes into play and doesn't pull people from the past? Because the writers chose not to make something absurdly illogical and troublesome even more of a pain in the ass by holding it to some arbitrary rules that exist in different forms of fiction. Besides, as of now we have no idea how the MK11 story will play out.

1. If Kronika is pissed that Shinnok lost, why didn't she turn back the time after MK4? It was exactly the same situation as today.

Legit answer: Because they didn't write the story for MK11 in 1997. Entertaining the point answer: If no one within the in-game cast is aware of Kronika pulling the strings since back then, what makes you think that YOU, the viewer would be aware?

2. If Kronika brings fighters from the past, does that mean that there will be a period in everyone's past when they missed several days because they were teleported to the future? Or will they be brought back to the exact moment in which they were taken? If so, why will they not remember anything?

If someone like Kronika could manipulate time, theoretically it would also be possible for her to "freeze" time, bring them forward, take them back afterwards, "rewind" their "existence" and memory/physicality to where she first "froze" them (thereby leaving them completely ignorant of the transference after the fact.)

4. If there are timelines from which Kronika brings the fighters from, why not bring infinite versions of fighters?

Hmmm.... You will get a thousand Hsu Haos. And you will like it.

5. If she just rewinds time, then why doesn't she rewind time even further, to a point where she can actually kill Liu Kang or Kung Lao or whoever defies her as a baby?

She likes babies?

In real physics, parallel universes have nothing to do with similar versions of you or I, they're a very different concept in string theory and other physics concepts.

Okay now you're getting into some serious shit here. It's not unthinkable that someone with a creative role in the writing could mistake one for the other.

TLDR: NRS DON'T CARE. We actually have no clue how TT will work in 11 so who knows what direction it goes in. Time Travel itself can be a silly narrative device and the very concept itself can easily be picked apart regardless of the rules you choose to apply to it. I personally prefer the version where the past gets altered (but does it, if it's just loops?) but I don't think it's fair to disregard the other as poor representation of TT.

It's like saying "Harry and the Hendersons" had a poor representation of Bigfoot.