Atom MU Discussion

[Mandolore1123]

That too


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[Flamelurkr]

Shujinkydink put him top 5, anyone wanna defend that for someone that hasn't played against the char?

 

[Cursa]

Shujinkydink put him top 5, anyone wanna defend that for someone that hasn't played against the char?

Not really an expert per say but I don't see how he's top 5, I could think of 5 better characters probably.

 

[Flamelurkr]

Not really an expert per say but I don't see how he's top 5, I could think of 5 better characters probably.

I thought it was a weird pick but this character is unused online so idk

 

[Cursa]

I thought it was a weird pick but this character is unused online so idk

I didn't watch what his reasons were, can you list them?

 

[Flamelurkr]

I didn't watch what his reasons were, can you list them?

Supposedly he has the most tools and no losing mus. Idk personally tho

 

[Flamelurkr]

I will say when I played against a solid one for like 2 matches the other day, his wake up tele stopped all my oki as flash, is that his real wu or can you stuff it?

 

[Cursa]

It's a real wakeup I'm pretty sure but obviously unsafe.
Not sure I'd agree with most tools. He struggles with air mobility and loses the zoning war to some characters. Losing matchups that we think include characters such as Brainiac who have excellent air mobility. I'd call Hellboy losing personally. Blue Beetle and Cheetah can give some trouble imo. There's some others that I can't remember but generally..

His damage is quite lacking (outside of trait or meter intensive setups)
He builds a good amount of meter but it pretty meter intensive himself
If he loses the zoning war he also loses the ability to properly build meter
He struggles to anti-air or air-to-air.
His footsies are extremely weak

I see a good amount of characters being better than him, at least for top 5. Probably a top 10 contender, but a lot of characters could be contender for top 10.

 

[Cursa]

I also think he struggles to get those openings in matchups where he's the one who has to get in.

 

[Flamelurkr]

It's a real wakeup I'm pretty sure but obviously unsafe.
Not sure I'd agree with most tools. He struggles with air mobility and loses the zoning war to some characters. Losing matchups that we think include characters such as Brainiac who have excellent air mobility. I'd call Hellboy losing personally. Blue Beetle and Cheetah can give some trouble imo. There's some others that I can't remember but generally..

His damage is quite lacking (outside of trait or meter intensive setups)
He builds a good amount of meter but it pretty meter intensive himself
If he loses the zoning war he also loses the ability to properly build meter
He struggles to anti-air or air-to-air.
His footsies are extremely weak

I see a good amount of characters being better than him, at least for top 5. Probably a top 10 contender, but a lot of characters could be contender for top 10.

Yea I have no idea lol thought it was weird to see too. Dont think hes been on the clash, wotgs or anything either

 

[Cursa]

Yea I have no idea lol thought it was weird to see too. Dont think hes been on the clash, wotgs or anything either

No, I haven't seen a whole lot outside of Grr, and I've only been playing him recently but I think I have at least a decent amount of knowledge and all his tools. Haven't played a whole lot of ranked or anything with him but his weaknesses seem obvious, but also fair and he has answers for them, just not the best answers and often causes him to change his gameplay significantly, which is a big deal for him.

Like you have to meet Brainiac in the air to challenge his mobility, but dive kick has a lot of priority and Atom's air to airs aren't horrible, but it's certainly not the best. Since you're having to meet Brainiac in the air, you're losing a lot of time normally spent building meter, and Atom's punishes for even connecting an J1 is like 300ish for 1 bar. Brainiac also wins the footsie, mid-range game pretty convincingly with his infinitely longer range normals and fantastic D2 to keep atom at bay.

Trait helps a lot in the neutral since it low profiles a lot, along with his D3, but it has a long ass cool down for what it's worth I think (not saying it needs buffs btw, just saying it's a big resource to give up for Atom in some matchups). Just an example of how Atom might struggle with a matchup on paper.

But I don't think Atom vs Brainiac is a very common matchup I would think lmao.

 

[Flamelurkr]

No, I haven't seen a whole lot outside of Grr, and I've only been playing him recently but I think I have at least a decent amount of knowledge and all his tools. Haven't played a whole lot of ranked or anything with him but his weaknesses seem obvious, but also fair and he has answers for them, just not the best answers and often causes him to change his gameplay significantly, which is a big deal for him.

Like you have to meet Brainiac in the air to challenge his mobility, but dive kick has a lot of priority and Atom's air to airs aren't horrible, but it's certainly not the best. Since you're having to meet Brainiac in the air, you're losing a lot of time normally spent building meter, and Atom's punishes for even connecting an J1 is like 300ish for 1 bar. Brainiac also wins the footsie, mid-range game pretty convincingly with his infinitely longer range normals and fantastic D2 to keep atom at bay.

Trait helps a lot in the neutral since it low profiles a lot, along with his D3, but it has a long ass cool down for what it's worth I think (not saying it needs buffs btw, just saying it's a big resource to give up for Atom in some matchups). Just an example of how Atom might struggle with a matchup on paper.

But I don't think Atom vs Brainiac is a very common matchup I would think lmao.

Only pl vs gross lol

Your probably right and there's a reason he's not played I think.

But yea it'll be interesting to see how this patch turns out and winter brawl will tell a lot.

 

[M2Dave]

How does Atom fare against Poison Ivy?

Check out my match up chart in the third post that I updated a few days ago.

Definite bad match ups include Brainiac, Cheetah, Hellboy, and Robin, who needs reevaluation. Hellboy may be 7:3 while the others are likely 6:4. Black Manta could be a bad match up too, though. At the moment, the rest of the match ups seem even or better.

Darkseid is tough because of the difference in damage output, but he probably has too many weaknesses in the neutral game to beat Atom. Darkseid must jump to punish d+3.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Need a bit of help against Cold, his projectiles are fast in startup and recovery and I can’t contest with stomp or the Atomiser, if I teleport I get punished by d1, and if I try to use trait he can ice wall me. I know Cold isn’t exactly a good character and I’m sure Atom actually beats him, but I need some tips on how to get in and stay in


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[Cursa]

Bane can armour through a lot of setups on a read.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Bane can armour through a lot of setups on a read.

But do things from MB green cloud count as hits that break armour? Could be a way around it?


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[Cursa]

But do things from MB green cloud count as hits that break armour? Could be a way around it?


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I don't believe so. I think teleport also works but seems kind of a waste of meter if you could do BF2 instead.

DB2 doesn't hit fast enough, DF3 doesn't either. I think BF1 does but haven't tested.

Edit, sorry, I mean that off of most setups, if you can do like D1xxBF2 it might break armour

 

[Cursa]

Oh and you can neutral jump to get past grabs, but might get anti-aired since D2 is basically Bane's go to poke. J3 DB2 J1 might break it in time but it'd be tight

I was so confused as to what thread I was in just then

 

[Cursa]

Welp Grr didn't even pick Atom against Scar's Brainiac so I guess it's safe to assume he doesn't feel like Atom does too well in that MU?

He stuck is out against Coach Steve's Black Manta though. Seems like D3 is a very good tool against BM, goes under B1 and F2 it looks like which are two really strong tools for Manta. And even D1 if timed correctly it seems, if you watch the end of the 4th game.

 

[kcd117]

Green chemical does break armor, I believe it does even without the catalyst.

I hate the manta matchup, I feel like there is really no good place to be at the screen, manta always has answers to whatever you wanna do. I would also add scarecrow to the bad matchups. Once he get's in it is pretty much impossible to get him out unless he fucks up, and the dmg output difference is absurd, it feels like a worse version of the robin matchup. It seems like every character that has high burst dmg potential gives him a bit of trouble.

 

[Cursa]

Green chemical does break armor, I believe it does even without the catalyst.

I hate the manta matchup, I feel like there is really no good place to be at the screen, manta always has answers to whatever you wanna do. I would also add scarecrow to the bad matchups. Once he get's in it is pretty much impossible to get him out unless he fucks up, and the dmg output difference is absurd, it feels like a worse version of the robin matchup. It seems like every character that has high burst dmg potential gives him a bit of trouble.

I just tested it in the lab and you need the MB one to break armour, and it only counts as 1 hit. In other words, D1 and MB Green Chemical breaks armour, but MB Green chemical alone doesn't. Every other form doesn't even count as a hit, unless I am missing some kind of key aspects.

Can't speak on the Scarecrow matchup with complete certainty but I believe Atom does a pretty good job of keeping him out, at least buying time until trait comes back so he can compete in the neutral.

I find Robin a toughie because I believe most of his mids are true mids (need to test), his knockdown game is super scary since he basically beats wakeups and gets free plus frames, and he has semi decent tools to at least contest full screen with birdarang, Air DB2 and trait. It's not like he can't be zoned out, but I find getting chemicals on the screen harder against Robin from fullscreen.

 

[Mandolore1123]

I just tested it in the lab and you need the MB one to break armour, and it only counts as 1 hit. In other words, D1 and MB Green Chemical breaks armour, but MB Green chemical alone doesn't. Every other form doesn't even count as a hit, unless I am missing some kind of key aspects.

Can't speak on the Scarecrow matchup with complete certainty but I believe Atom does a pretty good job of keeping him out, at least buying time until trait comes back so he can compete in the neutral.

I find Robin a toughie because I believe most of his mids are true mids (need to test), his knockdown game is super scary since he basically beats wakeups and gets free plus frames, and he has semi decent tools to at least contest full screen with birdarang, Air DB2 and trait. It's not like he can't be zoned out, but I find getting chemicals on the screen harder against Robin from fullscreen.

Isn’t it supposed to be harder against scarecrow though? He can react to chemical drop and teleport in, but I think you can contest with birdarang with stomp and Robin’s ways to get in except MB roll are all very unsafe


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[Cursa]

Isn’t it supposed to be harder against scarecrow though? He can react to chemical drop and teleport in, but I think you can contest with birdarang with stomp and Robin’s ways to get in except MB roll are all very unsafe


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MB DB2 from the air is 0 if I remember correctly. Birdarang can almost guarantee MB rolls in some cases and his trait does a pretty good job of threatening Atom at anywhere outside of fullscreen basically, particularly the red one since it's radius is huge and gives him a lot of time to do what he wants aka get in or throw a birdarang

I just think Robin is way more oppressive when he's got you on the ground. Birdarang gives him plus frames if you chose to do anything but wakeup, and waking up gets you full combo punished into another one. He loses his mixup this way but gets guaranteed pressure with his trait if he wants, swoop is kind of a gimmick but works when not spammed, and he has setups off of corner combos and background bounces that leads into pseudo-vortex stuff.

I think they're both equally bad personally, for different reasons. Scarecrow does better in the fullscreen game with teleport and his half screen jump ins, but Robin wins in the knockdown game I'd say. Also doesn't stomp hit Scarecrow out of teleport?

 

[Mandolore1123]

MB DB2 from the air is 0 if I remember correctly. Birdarang can almost guarantee MB rolls in some cases and his trait does a pretty good job of threatening Atom at anywhere outside of fullscreen basically, particularly the red one since it's radius is huge and gives him a lot of time to do what he wants aka get in or throw a birdarang

I just think Robin is way more oppressive when he's got you on the ground. Birdarang gives him plus frames if you chose to do anything but wakeup, and waking up gets you full combo punished into another one. He loses his mixup this way but gets guaranteed pressure with his trait if he wants, swoop is kind of a gimmick but works when not spammed, and he has setups off of corner combos and background bounces that leads into pseudo-vortex stuff.

I think they're both equally bad personally, for different reasons. Scarecrow does better in the fullscreen game with teleport and his half screen jump ins, but Robin wins in the knockdown game I'd say. Also doesn't stomp hit Scarecrow out of teleport?

Good point, and yes stomp hits him out of it, hits black manta out of his too, as they come out of the ground


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[Cursa]

Also Atom gets to poke out of DB2 MB pressure with trait unless Scarecrow makes hard reads.

Atom's trait low profiles Scarecrow's S2, F2, B2, D1 (kind of a big deal), and his J3 unless done super deep (Like to point it'd be a free anti-air)

Edit - I lied, he can't poke out of DB2 MB. I thought it was +5 and not +6. He can do D3 or trait out of anything that isn't D1 or grab though I think which is pretty sick.