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Harley General Fixes/"Buff" Thread

TopTierHarley

TopTierHarley

Kytinn King
As many of you know Harley is seen as this Top 10 character and insane zoning monster (even though she gets outzoned by almost everyone with a projectile) both of these things are false and she actually needs help.

Below are some suggestions that would be nice for our Psychotic Princess.

1) Fix her b22 whiffing on floating characters (even if u don't fix anything else, fix this shit at least)

2) Fix her pop pop so it doesn't whiff on some shitty crouching hitboxes.

3) Make tantrum 2 safe

4) Make 112 +1 on block and longer knockdown for oki

5) Allow her MB play doctor to kill (it's already neutral on hit make it at least kill if I'm spending the bar)

6) Give her a fast 10 frame b1 with decreased range to compensate (need an option to punish shit while stand blocking without having to guess)

7) Slightly buff gunshot dmg (trades are useless, gunshot doesn't knock down and does so little damage that it's laughable)

8) b22/tantrum 3 coming out when a character armors through. (it's hitting them, the full string should come out)

Discuss/Debate
 
Kotal_Wannabe

Kotal_Wannabe

AKA AndyPandy
I like these suggestions, nothing too strong, mostly bug fixes and some stuff she should have had from the start. Don't know why people consider her this tier monster, she's rarely seen in tourney, for good reason, with 11+ bad matchups, she gets counter picked to death, one of the reasons saltface dropped her right from the start.
 
AkioOf100

AkioOf100

I play Raph
I’m no Harley expert but I think she’s really good? She gets great meterless dmg, hit scan projectiles, great zoning.

Are these suggestions to help her in her bad matchups or just luxury buffs (outside of fixes)? Just curious.
 
TopTierHarley

TopTierHarley

Kytinn King
AkioOf100 said:
I’m no Harley expert but I think she’s really good? She gets great meterless dmg, hit scan projectiles, great zoning.

Are these suggestions to help her in her bad matchups or just luxury buffs (outside of fixes)? Just curious.
Click to expand...
Most are mainly bug fixes. The others, especially the damage boost on gunshot and the b1 change, will help with her MUs
 
Kotal_Wannabe

Kotal_Wannabe

AKA AndyPandy
AkioOf100 said:
I’m no Harley expert but I think she’s really good? She gets great meterless dmg, hit scan projectiles, great zoning.

Are these suggestions to help her in her bad matchups or just luxury buffs (outside of fixes)? Just curious.
Click to expand...
Most of these are fixes. But tbh she really needs help in general. People are raving about her being top tier, yet she loses 11+ matchups and is totally under represented recently, she's definitely not top tier, she needs her fixes for sure, the rest of the suggestions are perfectly reasonable and wouldn't push her to "god tier". Like fuck people already think she's god tier, yet have no idea what harley has to go through to get her win vs alot of the cast.
 
AkioOf100

AkioOf100

I play Raph
I think the reason she’s a good zoner is because she can anti-air consistently with cupcakes and trait. And because she has a hit scan projectile in a fighting game. So the data for startup is synonymous for the moment the shot comes out, if that makes sense. Really strong tool in a platformer.

With all of her options (up and straight gunshot, overhead gunshot, cupcakes, trait, pop pop) she becomes a really dangerous zoner. I’m not seeing what she’s missing. Do you have PSN?
 
A

Andnyal_

Noob
Only thing I personally can agree with is 1, 2 and 5, and possibly 6... the rest don’t make sense to me and if you can’t do something on block you also can’t do it on armor it’s just a thing in the game not only Harley. and if you want to be relatively safe on tantrum try rolling away... not trying to be rude at all by posting just an opinion
 
Kotal_Wannabe

Kotal_Wannabe

AKA AndyPandy
AkioOf100 said:
I think the reason she’s a good zoner is because she can anti-air consistently with cupcakes and trait. And because she has a hit scan projectile in a fighting game. So the data for startup is synonymous for the moment the shot comes out, if that makes sense. Really strong tool in a platformer.

With all of her options (up and straight gunshot, overhead gunshot, cupcakes, trait, pop pop) she becomes a really dangerous zoner. I’m not seeing what she’s missing. Do you have PSN?
Click to expand...
Her cupcakes are 22 frames she definitely can't anti air with them on anything other than a hard read.
 
Kotal_Wannabe

Kotal_Wannabe

AKA AndyPandy
Andnyal_ said:
Only thing I personally can agree with is 1, 2 and 5, and possibly 6... the rest don’t make sense to me and if you can’t do something on block you also can’t do it on armor it’s just a thing in the game not only Harley. and if you want to be relatively safe on tantrum try rolling away... not trying to be rude at all by posting just an opinion
Click to expand...
Rolling away on tantrum will get you punished worse than any of her other options. She has no option after tantrum in high level play.
 
A

Andnyal_

Noob
Also Harley has her trait, straight gun, up gun, Air gun, cupcakes, pop pop, and she can also cancel up gun into straight gun and meterburn these moves so I would say she’s one of the better zoners in the game
 
EMPRESS_SunFire

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
Kotal_Wannabe said:
Most of these are fixes. But tbh she really needs help in general. People are raving about her being top tier, yet she loses 11+ matchups and is totally under represented recently, she's definitely not top tier, she needs her fixes for sure, the rest of the suggestions are perfectly reasonable and wouldn't push her to "god tier". Like fuck people already think she's god tier, yet have no idea what harley has to go through to get her win vs alot of the cast.
Click to expand...
Most of the people saying she is top 10 are people who say their characters aren't top 10 yet their characters lose less match-ups lol.


In the side note, I would like some of her stuff to get fixed. Just B2 and gunshot, nerf her J2 if you want but having stuff whiff randomly is really annoying. I don't think she needs anything else. Safe TS~2 would probably be too much IMO
 
thlityoursloat

thlityoursloat

kick kick
Andnyal_ said:
Also Harley has her trait, straight gun, up gun, Air gun, cupcakes, pop pop, and she can also cancel up gun into straight gun and meterburn these moves so I would say she’s one of the better zoners in the game
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She can’t trade though, she can zone out characters without projectiles but so can most of the cast anyway.
 
Mista_Snacks

Mista_Snacks

Apprentice
EMPRESS_SunFire said:
Most of the people saying she is top 10 are people who say their characters aren't top 10 yet their characters lose less match-ups lol.


In the side note, I would like some of her stuff to get fixed. Just B2 and gunshot, nerf her J2 if you want but having stuff whiff randomly is really annoying. I don't think she needs anything else. Safe TS~2 would probably be too much IMO
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I mean, they buffed firestorm now he's the jazziest guy on the block so its cool to ask for all this.
 
EMPRESS_SunFire

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
Andnyal_ said:
Also Harley has her trait, straight gun, up gun, Air gun, cupcakes, pop pop, and she can also cancel up gun into straight gun and meterburn these moves so I would say she’s one of the better zoners in the game
Click to expand...
She's only better than characters that aren't straight up zoners IMO like Superman or Batman but she is not better than Fate, Ivy, Green Arrow, Starfire, Darkseid, etc.
And even then some characters have even a harder time getting in on Batman for example.

She is well-rounded tho imo and her zoning is good.
 
Kotal_Wannabe

Kotal_Wannabe

AKA AndyPandy
EMPRESS_SunFire said:
Most of the people saying she is top 10 are people who say their characters aren't top 10 yet their characters lose less match-ups lol.
Click to expand...
Yup, totally...


EMPRESS_SunFire said:
In the side note, I would like some of her stuff to get fixed. Just B2 and gunshot, nerf her J2 if you want but having stuff whiff randomly is really annoying. I don't think she needs anything else. Safe TS~2 would probably be too much IMO
Click to expand...
I totally disagree, she needs most/all of those suggestions at high level play. She's heavily out matched vs alot of the cast if people bother to lab her weaknesses. Most will up play the fuck out of her but have never bothered to look into her.
 
A

Andnyal_

Noob
EMPRESS_SunFire said:
She's only better than characters that aren't straight up zoners IMO like Superman or Batman but she is not better than Fate, Ivy, Green Arrow, Starfire, Darkseid, etc.
And even then some characters have even a harder time getting in on Batman for example.

She is well-rounded tho imo and her zoning is good.
Click to expand...
Are you serious?!?!? Not a better zoner than ivy?!?!?!? Lol bye or darkseid ?!?! Try using vine drill against Harley and see who’s the better zoner
 
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