Black Manta General Discussion "I brought a hook to hang you from."

[B. Shazzy]

in corner w/o meter seems good to end w/ b22. +16 and good dmg and range to do w/e.

why not just end in b22 rocket lul

 

[SunsetBlvd]

why not just end in b22 rocket lul

right so i have an idea and post it to see feedback and learn lul

 

[Peckapowa]

Deadshot wouldn't be seen as low tier after a day because he's the most dominant zoner and easy asf to play.

People often defend zoning but the one thing about it is it's easy. Working your way in and hit confirming/setting up situations properly is a lot more complicated in a game where zoning is relevant, than zoning is. That's why Sub was bad on day 1 and that's why Manta is bad on day 1. That's why Cheetah and Scarecrow were low tier at release.

i actually think it depends on matchup in terms of rushdown or zoning being more difficult, but i prefer zoning because i find it more of a challenge/ stimulating because i have to play perfectly cleanly and space well - and my reads are often small rewards over time, where as some rushdown chars make 1-2 reads and ur life bar goes by by. or even sometimes a rushdown character won't make a read, they'' get lucky when do something stupid and i eat a busted ass mixup.

zoning can be challenging you really have to feel out your opponent and sometimes force them to respect you and then mix it up - some people tkae tons of risks and you can't establish arhythm til you play according to them. a good zoner will not when to take stop running away and be aggressive periodically, or when to just stare you down.

"hit confirmation" and "setups" can be somewhat challenging for certain characters. but i think spacing and making consistent reads and mixing up zoning can be far more challenging. to me deadshot is stupid not because of his zoning, but because of the difficulty in whiff punishing his strings and his strong upclose game. the zoning itself imo is mostly fine outside of mb db3.

 

[Peckapowa]

I think trait is bad.. i know I'll get shit for it and I know it's still early but everyone is saying it's good because of its cancels on block.

Literally there is not a single cancel that is safe..90% of all characters can d2 the cancels for combos. They don't even have to react to do it, they can just OS d2..

And what does this "pressure" even lead to.. a safe mid into what? More interruptible pressure..

Again I am not saying the player as a whole is bad but his trait is just a gimmick as of now.. Only legit use is optimizing that one b1 string meterless punish

arty we both looked at him in training mode and probably realized the same thing- f2 is really really good but...



he prolly poo-poo

 

[B. Shazzy]

let that scrub know peckalegend

 

[SunsetBlvd]

f2 trait j3 seems to link. can do slight forward walk after the j3 to link to db3 on hit or j3xx db2 and float away, idk if it's safe but seems hard to punish.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

why is mantas throw range so shitty???
I legit cant throw another manta if theyre blocking overhead

 

[REYTHEGREAT]

Ive been experimenting with 123 db2 (rockets) on hit, right after that, they are still blocking high, so i go with the b22 MB DB2 combo.

My game plan is using stagger setups.

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

Is his ray anywhere near as good as Atrocitus vomit?

i bet 5$ its nerfed once people start exploiting it in trident rush /air breath fashion, it even blows through armor and wakeups. this char has mmh syndrome (too many tools) fucking love him tho

 

[Marinjuana]

So I haven't brought this character out of the lab yet and I didn't come up with this idea but something I will definitely be doing is:

B22~Float, J2~Torpedo, J2~Torpedo, B22~Torpedo

Leaves them standing, works midscreen, can hit confirm into it and it's probably +20ish. Main drawback is you use a lot of trait meter but you'll end up with more then if you do the high damage b11U3 combo with trait.

 

[MKF30]

I feel like in some ways he's a poor mans Sektor with how his teleport and rockets work but he's fun to play. Definitely fun to play around with, has a uniqueness to him.

 

[Ride the Sand Worm]

There's something about the way he says "choke on a harpoon" that makes me chuckle every time.

 

[dribirut]

So I haven't brought this character out of the lab yet and I didn't come up with this idea but something I will definitely be doing is:

B22~Float, J2~Torpedo, J2~Torpedo, B22~Torpedo

Leaves them standing, works midscreen, can hit confirm into it and it's probably +20ish. Main drawback is you use a lot of trait meter but you'll end up with more then if you do the high damage b11U3 combo with trait.

This is honestly the best thing you can do but it's suuuuuch a bitch to pull off

 

[dribirut]

The need to fix the inputs for specials cancelled from air attacks. They are completely inconsistent and is honestly ruining the character for me

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Bf1 (laser) is ridiculously good. I don't see too.many people talking about it and I'm kinda wondering if it's not one of his most powerful tools.

 

[RoboCop]

Bf1 (laser) is ridiculously good. I don't see too.many people talking about it and I'm kinda wondering if it's not one of his most powerful tools.

It's his Trident Rush. Builds half a bar of meter and deals 60 chip (to Superman). It hits 4 times so it can break all kinds of armor. Seems to be totally safe from max range.

 

[dribirut]

Also, rocket plus frames on block vary depending on distance from black manta. So if you condition them into blocking the oh in f123 and b22, and cancel into rocket, depending on the characters walk back speed you will have different plus frames..

I hope that made sense lol but it's very important because it makes some up rocker pressure much less positive depending on the characters walk back speed

 

[dribirut]

This notion that his laser is op is just so dumb idk what to say.. it's good but very much balanced..

If you do it off of any of his useful block strings, the non mb is punishable by literally everyone except 2 characters. 90% of the characters that do punish can punish for full combos.

Ontop of that there are like 7 characters that can os d2 for a punish every time and avoiding the mb mind game.

Is the move good? Yes of course without a doubt. But not close to op

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Yeah im not saying it's op or anything, jus that it's mega strong and I think its going to be a huge part of his game and it's one of those tools that help sort of define a character as dangerous , f that makes any sense.


It's just. So. Good.

Still no idea where Manta is in the power spectrum but I think he's looking pretty good. I genuinely don't see him being low tier by any means.

 

[big_aug]

Manta I worth playing just for the Batman matchup. I can back dash out of the j2 range and come in with my f2.

J2 man, you son of bitch, say hello to f2 man.

 

[Tweedy]

Just popping in to say I think b2 rocket and f21 rocket blockstrings are bills. Rocket is pretty reactable. Imo they're just week 1 mix ups.

 

[ATP2014]

Also wanted to pop in and say low profiling in general is gonna be a problem. A lot of his mids were going over Flash and GL in matches I played today.

 

[dribirut]

I've come to the conclusion trait "pressure" is a complete bill. Even more reactable than just canceling into a rocket..

This character defines "opens people up because they're not familiar with him yet"

 

[B. Shazzy]

told u scrubs

the only pressure worth nothing is spacing out the laser on block and staggering overheads but not to cancel into rocket lul. why did they have to do his grab range like that too

 

[Tweedy]

I wish his throw range was as long as his d1. I know his d1 is a bit longer than others but not being able to mindlessly strike/throw mix people off of d1s on hits is pretty buttcheeks.