Reo's Balance Suggestions.

[Superman64]

i play aqua and cw but comparing character tools when talking about buffs/nerfs it's not the right thing to do.

from what i see in this thread SG mains want:

1) Superman-ish kind of mindgame with a safe meterless breath
2) Aquaman-ish pressure with plus frames into a gapless d1 special

what's next? a +10 dive kick? dex starr added in her moveset? Also if you think about it, a gapless d1 ice breath is basically a launching d1 trident rush minus the chip.

Seems like they want to incorporate the top 5 characters all in one lol

Where may I ask did you see that because last time i checked juggs said -5 and gapless into a -20 special move with some pushback and REO who made the video said let her be able to cancel all of her strings that are cancelable gaplessly into low laser which is minus 2 which is not the same as either of the 2 characters you mentioned.

Edit: Which if you look at the supergirl thread this is the idea alot of us agreed on. No plus frames, no safe breath but the ability to be safe on any of her strings. None of her strings are really safe either their really negative, have a gap or both.

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

So she should be able to cancel her forward advancing fast mid into a special that's safe , on hit will launch if ex'd and even on block she's barely minus which means she can check you with a d1 after it (doesn't it also have some pushback ?) That's just gonna be dumb she would be able to throw it out with 0 risk whatsoever , it would also defeat the purpose of b123

Sounds like superman @Juggs

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Because it's just unnecessary. B123 should be safe , now you have a forward advancing mid that's safe. when that happens people won't even press buttons that often when you cancel into breath if b123 is safe because they don't want to get hit by the 3 , That's enough to make her good it's completely unnecessary to give her more stuff other than that and maybe more damage. It's just dumb that the fact that you literally want something changed because you think it doesn't make sense. You can keep talking shit instead of properly discussing anyways because that's what you've been doing this whole arguement

Why would you press a button when she's negative, just spent a bar of meter to stay safe, and it's your turn...

This is nothing like Supes' guessing game. It's not like she has bat trait to keep the pressure going.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

Where may I ask did you see that because last time i checked juggs said -5 and gapless into a -20 special move with some pushback and REO who made the video said let her be able to cancel all of her strings that are cancelable gaplessly into low laser which is minus 2 which is not the same as either of the 2 characters you mentioned.

making d1 Ice breath gapless, by itself, is already aquaman territory, for superman i think i saw a guy mentioning it, but i could be mistaken.

i agree more with reo changes than juggs, cause those changes requires decision making, either go low laser or ice breath, you know, risk/reward and stuff...

 

[Zionix]

So you're perfectly fine with REO's suggestion, but B12 into breath being gapless is too good? Also you're contradicting yourself. Safety is exactly what I'm advocating for, same for REO, same for all the top players who have said the EXACT same things I have.

I haven't watched the video, i'm only referring to b12 into ice ball gap / no gap debate.

Removing the gap going into ice ball isn't a take on being safe. Its just giving people a licence to autopilot it out; if it hits, great! full combo, if not mb and try to back off, rinse repeat not giving room for the opponent to escape.

There are worse things in the game though.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

making d1 Ice breath gapless, by itself, is already aquaman territory, for superman i think i saw a guy mentioning it, but i could be mistaken.

Aquaman's pre-launcher string ends in plus frames... You don't get to just take a turn afterwards on block except on a read.

He doesn't have to spend a bar to avoid being in punishable frames.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Removing the gap going into ice ball isn't a take on being safe. Its just giving people a licence to autopilot it out; if it hits, great! full combo, if not mb and try to back off, rinse repeat not giving room for the opponent to escape

How is this any different from any other character in this game

Scarecrow, Robin, Batman, you name it. Half the characters don't even have to spend the bar to stay safe on their launching or pre-launcher strings. Some characters are spending the bar to be barely negative, on in a few cases, plus.

You're likely complaining because you have an agenda about a character you're not good at dealing with.

 

[Superman64]

making d1 Ice breath gapless, by itself, is already aquaman territory, for superman i think i saw a guy mentioning it, but i could be mistaken.

i agree more with reo changes than juggs, cause those changes requires decision making, either go low laser or ice breath, you know, risk/reward and stuff...

what are you talking about REO idea is better than juggs in every way. Juggs is making you have less gaps so you can be safe for spending a bar. REO is making me have no gap when canceling without spending a bar and i am at better frame advantage so no decision making. Why spend a bar to be -5 and have a gap to be punished or be -2 with no gap for no bar? I dont understand what you are trying to say. Juggs is asking for way less then REO but he is the one who idea is getting flak. Why Id rather REO idea 100% of the time not because it takes more skill but it because its a better buff and takes way less work on the Supergirl's part so please clarify.

 

[Zionix]

How is this any different from any other character in this game

Scarecrow, Robin, you name it. Half the characters don't even have to spend the bar to stay safe on their launching or pre-launcher strings. Some characters are spending the bar to be barely negative, on in a few cases, plus.

You're likely complaining because you have an agenda about a character you're not good at dealing with.

This isn't a complaint, its just a discussion and my opinion on the matter.

I lol'd at the im crying because I can't deal with her comment. I know she is bottom 5, I love playing against her. I am just a little bit hesitant to give her buffs to the wrong things.

Get back in your cupboard.

 

[x TeeJay o]

Crimson,Juggs,Superman64


Please


Stop responding to them. It's derailing the thread and their incompetence is hurting my eyes. None of the shit being said is making any sense from em and honestly looks like neither have a clue of what she actually needs or does.


Cool vid though

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Not gonna lie, some weird context stretching going on in here. I don't see the issue with the thing being gapless and the constant use of him originally saying D1 gapless, which he retracted, is pretty silly too. He conceded that. The horse is dead. Let it be.

I know in just a scrub and all, but I can't for the life of me see why it matters of the string is a made a little auto-piloty. So what? I can't see that somehow skyrocketing her to broken tier unless it's accompanied with other serious changes.

But hey, what do I know. I favor balance by strength so I want everyone to be powerful, just not broken (somewhere around Harley/Crow strength).

Anyway, I like a lot of the changes mentioned. Look forward to the next video.

 

[Kooron Nation]

Lmao Supergirl players flock in the numbers to tell you what's wrong with their character, meanwhile nobody talking about any other characters mentioned in the video.

 

[Invincible Salads]

i say leave aquamans +2 string, but put a gap before the last hit.

 

[Rude]

Why do people keep comparing Superman and Supergirl?

They're not similar at all to me playstyle wise.

 

[Zionix]

Not gonna lie, some weird context stretching going on in here. I don't see the issue with the thing being gapless and the constant use of him originally saying D1 gapless, which he retracted, is pretty silly too. He conceded that. The horse is dead. Let it be.

I know in just a scrub and all, but I can't for the life of me see why it matters of the string is a made a little auto-piloty. So what? I can't see that somehow skyrocketing her to broken tier unless it's accompanied with other serious changes.

But hey, what do I know. I favor balance by strength so I want everyone to be powerful, just not broken (somewhere around Harley/Crow strength).

Anyway, I like a lot of the changes mentioned. Look forward to the next video.

When you give a character like Supergirl with her walkback speed and mobility in general, an advancing mid string. It is probably a good idea to have some counterplay in the string so the opponent can fight back.

Its why gaps are in the game in the first place, it normalises strings that would be otherwise very strong. Which is why people are requesting gaps in aquas plus 2 string; so they can counterplay the opponent when they become predictable.

I think Supergirl players are expecting that if some of the very strong stuff remains and want to be par with their kit. Which is fine and understandable.

 

[Shaka]

Man if you think Aquaman "needs" it but Swamp Thing doesn't then I've got a bridge to sell you.

OmG TyM never change, Did you read the OP? I said I agreed with all changes, that means I agree with making it so it doesn't track and having to time it right.

 

[Crimson Panther]

@Zionix saying "I know she's bottom 5, I love playing against her"

Lol

 

[bishbash]

Does every thread just turn to shit talk now?

Maybe it was always this way but there were other voices to drown it out, can't for the life in me think why so few use the site these days.....

Regarding the OP some good ideas I think although I only play one character so will refrain from commenting on what I think any other character needs doing to them. Also you know I'd rather not be spoken to like trash for simply having an opinion that differs from someone else's

"Community" Lolocaust

 

[Shaka]

I they better? I think people are vastly underestimating Superman's neutral game.

Even when you block successfully, it leads to a guessing game afterward, which isn't there with Supergirl. His preferred airdash jump-in jails into pressure, and the fact that he can MB the laser means that you can't immediately move in on him afterwards. He also has the superman punch to keep you honest from a mile away, and better wakeup. And his footsie string will anti-air unless you're at the highest point in your jump.

He has a backdash that practically teleports him a mile away. He even breaks armor for free if he pops trait.

I think Superman's neutral is actually incredibly good.

His weaker points are related to mixup, but definitely not the neutral game.

Exactly, right now everyone is focusing is Adam but he has weaknesses, Superman doesn't. He has literally everything. You don't need OH/Lows to be top in this game.

 

[Shaka]

I haven't watched the video, i'm only referring to b12 into ice ball gap / no gap debate.

Removing the gap going into ice ball isn't a take on being safe. Its just giving people a licence to autopilot it out; if it hits, great! full combo, if not mb and try to back off, rinse repeat not giving room for the opponent to escape.

There are worse things in the game though.

Clicks into a thread, doesn't read or watch the OP, start arguing with everyone-TYM never change.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

Aquaman's pre-launcher string ends in plus frames... You don't get to just take a turn afterwards on block except on a read.

He doesn't have to spend a bar to avoid being in punishable frames.

how's b123 into d1 trident any different from 112 d1 ice breath, if we're considering it being gapless. Yes i know that her main string is b12 and it's -11 on block whilst aqua gets to be plus, but she has ways to get plus frames into a gapless followup.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

how's b123 into d1 trident any different from 112 d1 ice breath, if we're considering it being gapless. Yes i know that her main string is b12 and it's -11 on block whilst aqua gets to be plus, but she has ways to get plus frames into a gapless followup.

Uh.. 112 is a high starter, has a gap, and isn't a footsie string as it had no range.. You aren't going to be throwing it out in the neutral. They aren't even related.

 

[Redk9]

how's b123 into d1 trident any different from 112 d1 ice breath, if we're considering it being gapless. Yes i know that her main string is b12 and it's -11 on block whilst aqua gets to be plus, but she has ways to get plus frames into a gapless followup.

Aquamans b123 is a low starter with far reach and is +2 with no gap. Super girls 112 is a high starter with no reach and a gap and is +1. Aquaman has a 6 frame d1 into a gapless trident rush which leads to good damage on block and chip. Or he has tentacle strike which leads to high damage. Supergirl has a 7 frame d1 which leads into a special with a gap that barely leads to any damage at all.

There is legitametly no argument for supergirls strings being even decent.

 

[Crimson Panther]

Well I'd put my thoughts into it but @CrimsonShadow and @Juggs have said everything.

How about people who don't main a character stop telling people who does main that character what said character needs or doesn't need?

 

[WiseM0nkey]

Uh.. 112 is a high starter, has a gap, and isn't a footsie string as it had no range.. You aren't going to be throwing it out in the neutral. They aren't even related.

obviously you're not throwing it out in the neutral lol, that's why Aquaman is a top 5 character and SG is not. That doesn't mean she needs a gapless d1 ice breath or b12 plus, if anything Aqua needs a normalization.

Also, let's be real here, it's not like 112 is a garbage string. having a gap is not as bad as being -12 on block and 112 serves his purpose very well in matches. let's not act like ppl would punish the gap everytime or low poke the high starter, it's just that you can't abuse it like aqua can with b123, so that's on the SG player to be smart with it.