Reo's Balance Suggestions.

[Redk9]

I think you need a new outlook if you think there shouldn't be a gap.

Gap in d1 breath and gap in b12 needs to stay but make b123 safe, should of been right from the start.

If it isn't enough, I'd re-assess and go from there. It wouldn't be too far fetched to let her use the mid ground laser to make strings safe but it would need to be approached well.

Let's compare supermans f23. I get super girls b12 hits low but superman has the option of going low with f2d1. Superman can cancel it into trait to make it positive, is only -1 on block without meter, can launch meterlesly, and it has no gap. Not to mention he does way more damage. Now I get it super girls tools in the neutral are better but does her string have to be THAT much worse by comparison? He has like 5 aspects that are better in that single string. Can we at least get b123 as -6(not even -1) and make it so b12 doesn't have a gap? Is it really asking for that much?

 

[ienjoywinning]

Again, saying there should be a gap isn't an argument.

Ice Breath is -18 to -20 depending on if you extend it or not. She has to burn meter she rarely has to make it safe. And it's safe at -5. Meaning she can't abuse this because she has difficulty building meter. So you have waste a valuable resource just to make B12 safe. This is fine, it makes sense. But then why does it make sense for their to be a gap between B12 and Ice Breath? It's very unsafe and punishable without meter, and you have to burn meter to make it -5.

again you seen to be so keen on b12 breath having no gap , if breath is this bad like youre making it to be then why do you want the gap removed ? And not many characters have fast forward advancing mids in the first place let alone them being special cancelable into a move that can be made safe if meterburned and easily hitconfirmed.

 

[Redk9]

again you seen to be so keen on b12 breath having no gap , if breath is this bad like youre making it to be then why do you want the gap removed ? And not many characters have fast forward advancing mids in the first place let alone them being special cancelable into a move that can be made safe if meterburned and easily hitconfirmed.

If the move is so bad why does he want the gap removed? Think about what you're asking...if it's bad why does he want an aspect of it to be improved?

 

[Juggs]

again you seen to be so keen on b12 breath having no gap , if breath is this bad like youre making it to bd then why do you want the gap removed ?

Breath is already unsafe, and you have to exhaust a resource to make it safe. Why then is there also a gap when you're already either taking a risk without meter, or wasting a bar just for safety? It doesn't make logical sense.

 

[ienjoywinning]

Breath is already unsafe, and you have to exhaust a resource to make it safe. Why then is there also a gap when you're already either taking a risk without meter, or wasting a bar just for safety? It doesn't make logical sense.

So your arguement is "it doesn't make sense bro" lol yeah many things in this game don't make any sense either dude. So you're saying if b12 breath has no gap then youd start using it? For what exactly ? Like you said you'll just have to use your meter if you want it to be safe and she has issues building meter. You can easily hitconfirm b12 and if you see them blocking you can do b123 (assuming it'll be safe).

 

[Zionix]

Again, saying there should be a gap isn't an argument.

Ice Breath is -18 to -20 depending on if you extend it or not. She has to burn meter she rarely has to make it safe. And it's safe at -5. Meaning she can't abuse this because she has difficulty building meter. So you have waste a valuable resource just to make B12 safe. This is fine, it makes sense. But then why does it make sense for their to be a gap between B12 and Ice Breath? It's very unsafe and punishable without meter, and you have to burn meter to make it safe at -5.

^^ @ienjoywinning

How can you not see that giving this floaty bitch a triborg mid f13 with no gap into a pseudo stagger special is too much.

If people are trying to punish b12 through the gap then do the full string which is now safe and condition them to stop.

If Supergirl gets b12 into ice ball gapless then I request Cheetah s2 links into any command grab on hit or block because I cba trying to open my opponent up by conditioning them to block 2,2.

I Can't wrap my head around the no meter Argument and she has to be careful because you get a lot in this game by default.

 

[Juggs]

So your arguement is "it doesn't make sense bro" lol yeah many things in this game don't make any sense either dude. So you're saying if b12 breath has no gap then youd start using it? For what exactly ? Like you said you'll just have to use your meter if you want it to be safe and she has issues building meter. You can easily hitconfirm b12 and if you see them blocking you can do b123 (assuming it'll be safe).

Are you seriously suggesting you can hit confirm the 2 in B12 into either B123 or B12 Breath?

I'm done, lmao. And you're arguing against yourself without even realizing it.

 

[Shaka]

How can you not see that giving this floaty bitch a triborg mid f13 with no gap into a pseudo stagger special is too much.

If people are trying to punish b12 through the gap then do the full string which is now safe and condition them to stop.

If Supergirl gets b12 into ice ball gapless then I request Cheetah s2 links into any command grab on hit or block because I cba trying to open my opponent up by conditioning them to block 2,2.

I Can't wrap my head around the no meter Argument and she has to be careful because you get a lot in this game by default.

Maybe you should try whiff punishing strings once in a while?

 

[Juggs]

How can you not see that giving this floaty bitch a triborg mid f13 with no gap into a pseudo stagger special is too much.

If people are trying to punish b12 through the gap then do the full string which is now safe and condition them to stop.

If Supergirl gets b12 into ice ball gapless then I request Cheetah s2 links into any command grab on hit or block because I cba trying to open my opponent up by conditioning them to block 2,2.

I Can't wrap my head around the no meter Argument and she has to be careful because you get a lot in this game by default.

You still aren't making an argument on why there should be a gap. Saying it's "too much" without an explanation is not an argument. Y'all really REALLY need to learn the matchup and stop losing to her gimmicks.

 

[ienjoywinning]

Are you seriously suggesting you can hit confirm the 2 in B12 into either B123 or B12 Breath?

I'm done, lmao. And you're arguing against yourself without even realizing it.

I kinda stopped taking you seriously after you said that her d1 shouldn't have a gap when cancelled into her special lol , next time you start asking for buffs you should have a better arguement than " it just doesn't make sense bro" you've yet to give me a better reason on why it shouldn't have a gap

 

[WiseM0nkey]

Let's compare supermans f23. I get super girls b12 hits low but superman has the option of going low with f2d1. Superman can cancel it into trait to make it positive, is only -1 on block without meter, can launch meterlesly, and it has no gap. Not to mention he does way more damage. Now I get it super girls tools in the neutral are better but does her string have to be THAT much worse by comparison? He has like 5 aspects that are better in that single string. Can we at least get b123 as -6(not even -1) and make it so b12 doesn't have a gap? Is it really asking for that much?

doesn't make sense lol, you shouldn't change a character tool just because another character has that. Supergirl is a different character from Supes, he's built around that freaking f23. If you want that specific playstyle, pick supes.

If the move is so bad why does he want the gap removed? Think about what you're asking...if it's bad why does he want an aspect of it to be improved?

it doesn't improve shit, it just makes ppl hold ice breath instead of mashing d1 interrupt.

Breath is already unsafe, and you have to exhaust a resource to make it safe. Why then is there also a gap when you're already either taking a risk without meter, or wasting a bar just for safety? It doesn't make logical sense.

making it gapless doesn't solve anything though. This problem can be fixed by making b12 -6/7 so you can either not cancel and be safe-ish or commit to ice breath. a safe b123 also fixes this problem.

just lets not act like having a gap is worse than being -11/12 on block lol.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

SG biggest problem is that she has to touch you 3000 times before killing you. You SG mains should try and switch your focus on the important things.

 

[Superman64]

Again, saying there should be a gap isn't an argument.

Ice Breath is -18 to -20 depending on if you extend it or not. She has to burn meter she rarely has to make it safe. And it's safe at -5. Meaning she can't abuse this because she has difficulty building meter. So you have waste a valuable resource just to make B12 safe. This is fine, it makes sense. But then why does it make sense for their to be a gap between B12 and Ice Breath? It's very unsafe and punishable without meter, and you have to burn meter to make it safe at -5.

^^ @ienjoywinning

Juggs your just downplaying. Supergirl is borderline broken and any buffs would push her over the edge. Even buffs that are not as good as the video this thread is about imo but good enough. Just stop downplaying you scrub and git gud. Lol

 

[Superman64]

SG biggest problem is that she has to touch you 3000 times before killing you. You SG mains should try and switch your focus on the important things.

Wait wait wait i was going to joke around about how juggs is downplaying but now im done. your tell a supergirl player how to play their character, what buffs she need, and tell us whats important please stop. Also who you main

 

[Juggs]

Juggs your just downplaying. Supergirl is borderline broken and any buffs would push her over the edge. Even buffs that are not as good as the video this thread is about imo but good enough. Just stop downplaying you scrub and git gud. Lol

I was JUST thinking that. Like my suggestion isn't even as good as REO's. And yet no one is saying shit about it, lmao.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

Wait wait wait i was going to joke around about how juggs is downplaying but now im done. your tell a supergirl player how to play their character, what buffs she need, and tell us whats important please stop. Also who you main

I'm not interested in argueing with you. I listed a few things in my previous posts that would solve most of her problems, being safety and damage. If you can't tell her real issues i don't know what to say.

I don't understand how my main has anything to do with the argument.

 

[Zionix]

You still aren't making an argument on why there should be a gap. Saying it's "too much" without an explanation is not an argument. Y'all really REALLY need to learn the matchup and stop losing to her gimmicks.

I gave the reason in the first paragraph.

Wouldn't be discussing buff options if I didn't know the match-up.

I'm only going to discuss logical changes that add strength and depth to a weaker character. Not make them more potato, which seems to be what you want.

Focus on what she actually needs (safety and damage) and not some weird training wheels buffs.

 

[Superman64]

I'm not interested in argueing with you. I listed a few things in my previous posts that would solve most of her problems, being safety and damage. If you can't tell her real issues i don't know what to say.

I don't understand how my main has anything to do with the argument.

I read your posts. I ask for your main so we can discuss didnt come hear to argue. Using your main could help compare in some ways if it wasnt a clasified low tier who needs buffs aswell. Not saying Supergirl is low tier she is mid IMO.

 

[PetulantWaste]

No, dif chars have dif tools. therefore some need it some dont. Why make every char the same?

Man if you think Aquaman "needs" it but Swamp Thing doesn't then I've got a bridge to sell you.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Now I get it super girls tools in the neutral are better but does her string have to be THAT much worse by comparison?

I they better? I think people are vastly underestimating Superman's neutral game.

Even when you block successfully, it leads to a guessing game afterward, which isn't there with Supergirl. His preferred airdash jump-in jails into pressure, and the fact that he can MB the laser means that you can't immediately move in on him afterwards. He also has the superman punch to keep you honest from a mile away, and better wakeup. And his footsie string will anti-air unless you're at the highest point in your jump.

He has a backdash that practically teleports him a mile away. He even breaks armor for free if he pops trait.

I think Superman's neutral is actually incredibly good.

His weaker points are related to mixup, but definitely not the neutral game.

 

[Juggs]

This entire response is extremely telling, but let's break down shall we?

I kinda stopped taking you seriously after you said that her d1 shouldn't have a gap when cancelled into her special lol ,

This shows you don't actually have an argument. This is why you revert back to attacking the D1 point, a point I already conceded. This is a typical sign that someone has nothing legitimate to say.

next time you start asking for buffs you should have a better arguement than " it just doesn't make sense bro"

This was never my argument, this is a strawman. I backed up my suggestion and explained my reasoning behind it. Then followed the explanation with commentary, higlighting that YOUR logic makes no sense.

Also, the buffs I asked for, which to retort were making B123 safe at -5 and/OR removing the gap between B12 and breath, aren't nearly as good as the buff REO suggested. I wonder why you haven't talked about that?

you've yet to give me a better reason on why it shouldn't have a gap

I have, more than once. You're projecting here. I've very clearly explained my reasoning while you haven't. It's clear at this point you don't actually have a legitimate argument on exactly why B12 into breath would be "too good". It's also apparent that you're either not actually reading my responses, or you're purposely trolling. Neither of which do I have time for.

Once you come up with a proper rebuttal, or even a legitimate argument, feel free to post it up. I might miss it so you may want to tag me. I have a feeling I might be waiting awhile but I'm optimistic.

 

[SunsetBlvd]

A character should never be balanced around it being harder or easier to use

this 100%. it's just a fact, not an opinion. it's not an actual "balance" change if it just makes execution harder. some players will not be affected at all, some will. that's the definition of imbalance. and it makes tuning that character as well as other characters in relation to that character into even more of a mess.

 

[Juggs]

I gave the reason in the first paragraph.

Wouldn't be discussing buff options if I didn't know the match-up.

I'm only going to discuss logical changes that add strength and depth to a weaker character. Not make them more potato, which seems to be what you want.

Focus on what she actually needs (safety and damage) and not some weird training wheels buffs.

So you're perfectly fine with REO's suggestion, but B12 into breath being gapless is too good? Also you're contradicting yourself. Safety is exactly what I'm advocating for, same for REO, same for all the top players who have said the EXACT same things I have.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

I read your posts. I ask for your main so we can discuss didnt come hear to argue. Using your main could help compare in some ways if it wasnt a clasified low tier who needs buffs aswell. Not saying Supergirl is low tier she is mid IMO.

i play aqua and cw but comparing character tools when talking about buffs/nerfs it's not the right thing to do.

from what i see in this thread SG mains want:

1) Superman-ish kind of mindgame with a safe meterless breath
2) Aquaman-ish pressure with plus frames into a gapless d1 special

what's next? a +10 dive kick? dex starr added in her moveset? Also if you think about it, a gapless d1 ice breath is basically a launching d1 trident rush minus the chip.

Seems like they want to incorporate the top 5 characters all in one lol

 

[ienjoywinning]

This entire response is extremely telling, but let's break down shall we?



This shows you don't actually have an argument. This is why you revert back to attacking the D1 point, a point I already conceded. This is a typical sign that someone has nothing legitimate to say.



This was never my argument, this is a strawman. I backed up my suggestion and explained my reasoning behind it. Then followed the explanation with commentary, higlighting that YOUR logic makes no sense.

Also, the buffs I asked for, which to retort were making B123 safe at -5 and removing the gap between B12 and breath, aren't nearly as good as the buff REO suggested. I wonder why you haven't talked about that?




I have, more than once. You're projecting here. I've very clearly explained my reasoning while you haven't. It's clear at this point you don't actually have a legitimate argument on exactly why B12 into breath would be "too good". It's also apparent that you're either not actually reading my responses, or you're purposely trolling. Neither of which do I have time for.

Once you come up with a proper rebuttal, or even a legitimate argument, feel free to post it up. I might miss it so you may want to tag me. I have a feeling I might be waiting awhile but I'm optimistic.

Because it's just unnecessary. B123 should be safe , now you have a forward advancing mid that's safe. when that happens people won't even press buttons that often when you cancel into breath if b123 is safe because they don't want to get hit by the 3 , That's enough to make her good it's completely unnecessary to give her more stuff other than that and maybe more damage. It's just dumb that the fact that you literally want something changed because you think it doesn't make sense. You can keep talking shit instead of properly discussing anyways because that's what you've been doing this whole arguement