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Balance patch changes (Major patch) discussion

South

I'd rather SHOW than TELL ~ Poison Ivy
so i'm assuming you nerfed superman to stop the f1,2 breath block loop (i think you over nerfed it but wtvs) then why give it to wonderwoman... even at +3 it's just as bad as what sup was doing
so i'm assuming you nerfed superman to stop the f1,2 breath block loop (i think you over nerfed it but wtvs) then why give it to wonderwoman... even at +3 it's just as bad as what sup was doing
Well with superman he is dumb up close it's a simple loop that some characters have to use bar to pushblock it and that's bar they need in the mu. And with Wonder Woman if she +3 she has a 10f mid so 7f moves will trade and 6f moves will beat it so there are options to beat it out
 

South

I'd rather SHOW than TELL ~ Poison Ivy
to be fair thats only like deadshot and supergirl but yeah thats kind of a bad change. im tryna be nice here :}
Be nice I'm just suggesting stuff... it's up to you along with the Fate community to bring about what y'all really feel is necessary! I personally don't care about the start up it's 100% fine and I think recovery is fine he neutral is good and etc but y'all discuss his need! All I gathered is his db2 needs to be -7
 

OmGxBdON

I'm going to make Fate top ten
Be nice I'm just suggesting stuff... it's up to you along with the Fate community to bring about what y'all really feel is necessary! I personally don't care about the start up it's 100% fine and I think recovery is fine he neutral is good and etc but y'all discuss his need! All I gathered is his db2 needs to be -7
thats the thing, the fate community wants to seem him get buffed when he really doesnt need anything. i wouldnt lie, a -7 db2 would be nice but i dont know if he really needs it. it woud help him out against MUs up blackadam and superman but even then im adapting o not always using f2db2 and realizing which distances it cant be punished from
 

MetalPete

MACHKAAAAA!!!!!
Half-nerf Deadshot's bf1. You don't have to give it the full nerf of Deathstroke's low shot, but something needs to happen.
 

wsj515

This is my billionth life cycle.
Oops I meant to put +3 I'm sorry thank you for pointing that one out!
And the damage reductions are by percentage black Adams for example I say a 8% damage reduction because his f12, trait, f12, cage mb, b3, jump 3, dive kick, f121+3 does 517% iirc so a 8% damage reduction tones it down to 476% on superman
Just remember that a huge chunk of adam's combo damage come from trait. I think most of your Adam changes are fairly reasonable, but 8% total combo damage reduction on top of a trait damage reduction might end up being too much.
 

ryublaze

Noob
My opinion on what I'd like to see:

General
- Match timer shortened so timeouts can actually happen
- Remove ability to whiff air normals and cancel into a special move
- Unblockable interactables changed to be blockable in Competitive Mode
- Bomb interactables lead to a splat preventing guaranteed loopable combos

Aquaman
- b123 no longer + on block

Atrocitus
- Reduce trait timer
- No longer builds trait in between rounds
- Added recovery to bf2

Batman
- Slower trait charge time

Black Adam
- Fix damage scaling
- Reduce trait cancel + frames

Catwoman
- Fix Cat Evade so she doesn't remain invincible
(Needs more changes but I'm not exactly sure what atm)

Superman
- Breath slightly more - on block

Deadshot
- Remove b1 and b12 staggers
- Second hit of f23 hits high
- Possibly slightly increase recovery on high shot or reduce meter build

Black Canary
- Lvl1 trait hits mid
- Lvl3 trait hits fullscreen

Blue Beetle
- 132 safe on block
- db1 MB increased damage
- Trait stance increased damage
- Stays in same stance after an interactable/transition/clash/round

Doctor Fate
- db2 -7 on block

Gorilla Grodd
- Remove infinite on certain characters in the corner
(Needs buffs but I'm not exactly sure what atm)

Robin
- D3 safe on block
- Assassin Strike +7 on hit
- 212 no longer whiffs on crouch vs some characters

Supergirl
- b12 Breath gap removed
- b123 safe on block
- 212 +2 on hit

The Flash
- b2 increased range

Wonder Woman
- Trait no longer random and can now choose which trait buffs to use
- Shield buff boosts shield based attack damage
- 223 mashable gap removed
 
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JDE

Pick up & kill it & kill it & kill it!
I'm just honestly done trying to logically and reasonably explain it to people. No matter what, we're labeled as downplayers who just suck at the game. Funny thing is, when a top player like F0xy says the same things, no one bats an eye. When Scar said the same things before he dropped her, no one really questioned it and in fact agreed. When you're not a top of the top well known player, people will just say you suck and you're downplaying. They don't even take anything you're saying into consideration. They just look at WHO is saying it, and talk down to you for it.

No reason to harp on the subject anymore. People are literally saying even making B123 safe at -5 is "too good" and would make her top 5. They're either trolling or they're serious, either way it's exhausting at this point.
TBH, I haven't seen anyone really downplay her. It's been certain ones who are still new to the game, people who are trolling (& doing the typical politics), or people who are going off what people tell them.
 
My opinion on what I'd like to see:

General
- Match timer shortened so timeouts can actually happen
- Remove ability to whiff air normals and cancel into a special move
- Unblockable interactables changed to be blockable in Competitive Mode
- Bomb interactables lead to a splat preventing guaranteed loopable combos

Aquaman
- b123 no longer + on block

Atrocitus
- Reduce trait timer
- No longer builds trait in between rounds

Batman
- Slower trait charge time

Black Adam
- Fix damage scaling
- Reduce trait cancel + frames

Catwoman
- Fix Cat Evade so she doesn't remain invincible
(Needs more changes but I'm not exactly sure what atm)

Superman
- Breath slightly more - on block

Deadshot
- Remove b1 and b12 staggers
- Second hit of f23 hits high

Black Canary
- Lvl1 trait hits mid
- Lvl3 trait hits fullscreen

Blue Beetle
- 132 safe on block
- db1 MB increased damage
- Trait stance increased damage
- Stays in same stance after an interactable/transition/clash/round

Doctor Fate
- db2 -7 on block

Robin
- D3 safe on block
- Assassin Strike +7 on hit

Supergirl
- b12 Breath gap removed
- b123 safe on block
- 212 +2 on hit

The Flash
- b2 increased range

Wonder Woman
- Trait no longer random and can now choose which trait buffs to use
- Shield buff boosts shield based attack damage
- 223 mashable gap removed
Why make Fate's push even safer on block?
 
I like how you want to take gaps out of strings. It's stupid aquaman can make it his turn just by mashing d1. Aqua and BA better get dmg nerfs. Probly super and bats too.

What I don't like: you don't think brainiac, swamp thing, and cyborg need buffs? Everyone is like "I cant determine cyborgs tier cause I haven't seen a good one yet". Doesn't that say something?

Black Canary nerfs. Uhh what??
 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
JOKER NEEDS THESE BUFFS

Joker- remove Crowbar unblockable and full screen run and make it OTG again. If not absolutely possible then make it +2 with thr run being cancelable, similar to grundys walking corpse. Regardless of what happens to this move, it needs to be invincible on wake up. Joker has no wake ups.

Restore his j2 back to injustice 1 version. It whiffs on more then half the cast trying to cross up (there's no reason batman should be able to have his and we lose ours.)

Buff J3 hurtbox (if jokers body is not hit physically with an attack, he shouldn't be trading)

Give us back a low parry that can also be meter burned like joy buzzer and make it invincible on wake up AND both joy buzzer and low parry his trait. Also make our speed start at level 2 for getting a parry.

Fix ALL his whiff problems, mids should be mids

Increase active frames hitstun and hitbox on f23 and f232 and reduce the recovery of it on whiff

Make mb can more + on block again, speed it up a bit

Mb gun mid

This is my updated version
 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
My opinion on what I'd like to see:

General
- Match timer shortened so timeouts can actually happen
- Remove ability to whiff air normals and cancel into a special move
- Unblockable interactables changed to be blockable in Competitive Mode
- Bomb interactables lead to a splat preventing guaranteed loopable combos

Aquaman
- b123 no longer + on block

Atrocitus
- Reduce trait timer
- No longer builds trait in between rounds

Batman
- Slower trait charge time

Black Adam
- Fix damage scaling
- Reduce trait cancel + frames

Catwoman
- Fix Cat Evade so she doesn't remain invincible
(Needs more changes but I'm not exactly sure what atm)

Superman
- Breath slightly more - on block

Deadshot
- Remove b1 and b12 staggers
- Second hit of f23 hits high

Black Canary
- Lvl1 trait hits mid
- Lvl3 trait hits fullscreen

Blue Beetle
- 132 safe on block
- db1 MB increased damage
- Trait stance increased damage
- Stays in same stance after an interactable/transition/clash/round

Doctor Fate
- db2 -7 on block

Robin
- D3 safe on block
- Assassin Strike +7 on hit

Supergirl
- b12 Breath gap removed
- b123 safe on block
- 212 +2 on hit

The Flash
- b2 increased range

Wonder Woman
- Trait no longer random and can now choose which trait buffs to use
- Shield buff boosts shield based attack damage
- 223 mashable gap removed
To add to your overall game mechanics changes:

Mb roll needs to be more invincible on start up or at least revisited. It's really inconsistent.

Push block should be changed to regular R2 instead of forward R2. When trying to push block fast multi-hitting moves like trident rush, where not every move hits, when you try to push block you end up getting hit and clashing instead. Super annoying.

Great list!
 

South

I'd rather SHOW than TELL ~ Poison Ivy
To add to your overall game mechanics changes:

Mb roll needs to be more invincible on start up or at least revisited. It's really inconsistent.

Push block should be changed to regular R2 instead of forward R2. When trying to push block fast multi-hitting moves like trident rush, where not every move hits, when you try to push block you end up getting hit and clashing instead. Super annoying.

Great list!
I was thinking make meterburn roll a new input so you don't have wait for dash recovery and etc. and yes the push block idea is good
 

South

I'd rather SHOW than TELL ~ Poison Ivy
JOKER NEEDS THESE BUFFS

Joker- remove Crowbar unblockable and full screen run and make it OTG again. If not absolutely possible then make it +2 with thr run being cancelable, similar to grundys walking corpse. Regardless of what happens to this move, it needs to be invincible on wake up. Joker has no wake ups.

Restore his j2 back to injustice 1 version. It whiffs on more then half the cast trying to cross up (there's no reason batman should be able to have his and we lose ours.)

Buff J3 hurtbox (if jokers body is not hit physically with an attack, he shouldn't be trading)

Give us back a low parry that can also be meter burned like joy buzzer and make it invincible on wake up AND both joy buzzer and low parry his trait. Also make our speed start at level 2 for getting a parry.

Fix ALL his whiff problems, mids should be mids

Increase active frames hitstun and hitbox on f23 and f232 and reduce the recovery of it on whiff

Make mb can more + on block again, speed it up a bit

Mb gun mid

This is my updated version
Yes and yes those seem reasonable for a struggling character
 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
I was thinking make meterburn roll a new input so you don't have wait for dash recovery and etc. and yes the push block idea is good
I'm not sure how to revisit mb roll or what inputs to make it tbh lol all I know is it needs work.

And yeah pushblock needs to be changed lol
 

South

I'd rather SHOW than TELL ~ Poison Ivy
I like how you want to take gaps out of strings. It's stupid aquaman can make it his turn just by mashing d1. Aqua and BA better get dmg nerfs. Probly super and bats too.

What I don't like: you don't think brainiac, swamp thing, and cyborg need buffs? Everyone is like "I cant determine cyborgs tier cause I haven't seen a good one yet". Doesn't that say something?

Black Canary nerfs. Uhh what??
I could give or take anything from them because I honestly don't know much about them so I left them up for debate
 

South

I'd rather SHOW than TELL ~ Poison Ivy
I
Just remember that a huge chunk of adam's combo damage come from trait. I think most of your Adam changes are fairly reasonable, but 8% total combo damage reduction on top of a trait damage reduction might end up being too much.
t might be doing all the damage numbers he loses 60-70 damage from base and 30 from trait so 100 might be overkill
 

MetalPete

MACHKAAAAA!!!!!
In IGAU Deathstroke's low shots had an extremely fast recovery time which allowed you to go between low and high shots with ease with little risk. That is my only complaint about Deadshot. You can use bf1 with little to know risk at all. Increase the recovery time between shots and it becomes less braindead
 

wsj515

This is my billionth life cycle.
I

t might be doing all the damage numbers he loses 60-70 damage from base and 30 from trait so 100 might be overkill
Yeah. If you want to nerf trait damage, something like reducing chip damage will actually be a very big reduction of damage output over the course of a game.
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
Against my better judgment, I am going to post my proposed changes to Poison Ivy here:

-D2 needs to be faster than 20 frames
-Increase d1 hit advantage by 1 or 2 frames so that d1xxvine drill can be used as a punish
-Brambles (her DoT) needs to do more damage, and have less recovery; both in the normal and MB versions. Right now this move is 100% useless

She does not need a wake up, and none of her other normals/inputs need to be changed.
This is literally EXACTLY what I asked for in the "thoughts of Ivy" thread I made about a month ago. Those changes and she'll be just fine.
 

Meep8345

Noob
My opinion on what I'd like to see:

General
- Match timer shortened so timeouts can actually happen
- Remove ability to whiff air normals and cancel into a special move
- Unblockable interactables changed to be blockable in Competitive Mode
- Bomb interactables lead to a splat preventing guaranteed loopable combos


Supergirl
- b12 Breath gap removed
- b123 safe on block


Wonder Woman
- Trait no longer random and can now choose which trait buffs to use
- Shield buff boosts shield based attack damage
- 223 mashable gap removed
Wait so you want 223 a string that is plus 12 on block to be an infinite? Yeah you have a 2 frame window to loop it and jail but that isn't fair. Supergirl would be dumb if there was no gap in b12 breath, b123 being safe is fine you could just hit confirm into the last part or if they get hit go into breath.