Rate Your Character (Injustice 2 Edition)

[x TeeJay o]

think your uplaying supergirls strengths a little bit too much. what does she have that you can say that is so exceptional where she need all these weaknesses of being minus or unsafe on almost everything. Has gaps in her strings and when she tries to cancel it to make it safe. One of the lowest if not the lowest damage in the game. Lack of range on normal and strings. Yes she has an above average neutral and anti zoning but their are a decent amount of characters in those categories that does it better. for example a good neutral character is scarecrow his strengths are neutral, mix-ups, damage what his weaknesses zoning and anti zoning. Darkseid an anti zoning character he has mix-ups damage, zoning and anti-zoning, great wake-up and 6f d1 but his neutral is poor. Look at this 2 character that are strong in categories that supergirl is strong in but have more strengths and less weaknesses. This was just my opinion I feel that her strengths are not on the level for have her so many flaws. I never even brought up the fact she needs mix-ups or damage those are her weakness and b1 into d1 or overhead in my opinion is just a gimmick like all he other so called pressure and if the person knows the match up wont get caught buy in. on top of that b2 mix up is only 1 mix up which doesn't give her are raise in point in my opinion. Super girl strengths are not good enough for her multitude of weaknesses. If you say im downplaying I'm truly not in my opinion Supergirl is mid tier, not high tier, not low, just mid.

Tell me where i said she needs to have ALL of these weaknesses? Bringing up Darkseid just further proves my point btw. He has all of that, yet his neutral is ass. Supergirls neutral is stellar,she just has no damage and no safety. Do i agree with that? No. But there was a point where she has safety, PLUS on block safety with the same neutral and damage and she easily outclassed batman and superman and they both are pretty much the same from the beta. All i am saying is supergirl is not a weak character by any means. Is she top tier? Probably not. But she isn't bottom 3 either. Again, you have to be very careful with a character like her. If you take away the gaps does that solve her biggest issues? Probably not. If you make her safe on everything would that solve anything? No because then you have a character that can do everything with no risk.

Supergirl has a lot of weaknesses though. She still feels way overnerfed to me.

Oh i agree 100% way over nerfed as well. but her neutral is not one of them. She's my secondary i am well aware of her problems. But i just think people should get the narrative out of their heads that she needs to be gapless and safe on block on everything and that somehow will make her great. Keep the gaps, her damage is what needs to be addressed. I guarantee you if she did 380 or 410 damage for 1 bar w her current frame data, she would be top.

 

[Superman64]

Tell me where i said she needs to have ALL of these weaknesses? Bringing up Darkseid just further proves my point btw. He has all of that, yet his neutral is ass. Supergirls neutral is stellar,she just has no damage and no safety. Do i agree with that? No. But there was a point where she has safety, PLUS on block safety with the same neutral and damage and she easily outclassed batman and superman and they both are pretty much the same from the beta. All i am saying is supergirl is not a weak character by any means. Is she top tier? Probably not. But she isn't bottom 3 either. Again, you have to be very careful with a character like her. If you take away the gaps does that solve her biggest issues? Probably not. If you make her safe on everything would that solve anything? No because then you have a character that can do everything with no risk.






Oh i agree 100% way over nerfed as well. but her neutral is not one of them. She's my secondary i am well aware of her problems. But i just think people should get the narrative out of their heads that she needs to be gapless and safe on block on everything and that somehow will make her great. Keep the gaps, her damage is what needs to be addressed. I guarantee you if she did 380 or 410 damage for 1 bar w her current frame data, she would be top.

Beta is not a good indicator of what the characters could do especially since she was nerfed a week or 2 into the beta so we could never truly know. plus there was only batman atrocitous superman and Her so 4/30 characters 1-2 weeks of play and inexperienced players with the changes to the system i not a good indicator of what a character can do. Plus look at atrocitous he was not considered OP in the beta and look were we are now, so....

PS. I main the character

 

[wsj515]

Not sure where the miscommunication here is. I'll break it down really slow.

Record Adam doing f12xx4 b12

Controlling Firestorm yourself, duck f1, stand block 2, reversal charge.

You can even check your execution of the recording by stand blocking the string, and you will get beat out of the reversal. But duck the high, and you beat b12.

I'm not sure why the AI reversal is slower, but it is. Might have to do with THTB's stickied post on reversals, maybe the buffer window doesn't apply for AI. I'll post my own video when I'm able to if need be.

Edit:

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AsqsrX8G-3GcgQs7EvTDg5MdqqPe

Here's the clip. First I stand block f12 and get hit out of my reversal. Second I crouch f1 and beat out b12.

 

[alkipot]

Lol if Supergirl gets buffs there's no reason to play as any other character outside of aesthetics. Really find it hilarious that people have this near Joker tier vibe about her.

Low-ish damage and lack of safety on strings/teleport are the only thing keeping her in line. She can attack you from anywhere on the screen. That is a giant strength and mind game in itself, but yeah, she must be ass cuz 'muh damage'.

 

[x TeeJay o]

Beta is not a good indicator of what the characters could do especially since she was nerfed a week or 2 into the beta so we could never truly know. plus there was only batman atrocitous superman and Her so 4/30 characters 1-2 weeks of play and inexperienced players with the changes to the system i not a good indicator of what a character can do. Plus look at atrocitous he was not considered OP in the beta and look were we are now, so....

PS. I main the character

Im giving you an example of what a Supergirl with safety looked like. We saw it. We PLAYED it. Im aware of how many characters were in it. I played it lol. Atrocitus was massively downplayed in the beta everyone knew he was busted too. He's virtually untouched same with bats and supes(save his otg getting nerfed) It is a good indicator because you guys want her to have godlike nuetral and safe on everything. Tell me what would b12 being safe change? She'd still have the gaps. What would making b2 1+3 safer do? It would still be punishable on block. My main point is her frames are fine. The gap will never go because they would have to make breath faster. She is fine with the frames she has, she just needs to get better damage for her risk that she takes. Like i said, if she gets after buttons all you guys would say next is "well sure i have safety, but it doesn't matter cus everyone still out damages her" You have to find a safe medium. She can't be safe on everything AND have no gaps but have low damage. That solves nothing. The narrative would just change to oh she gets no damage. I'm not sure what you guys expect from a character that basically has everything.

in the beta she was:
+7 on 112
+1 on the re-stand
+1 on f23 air grab on block
frost breath extended was +1

and she did no damage. That still made her busted. You have to pick one. I'd rather have the current supergirl but with higher damage. She's more fair this way

Lol if Supergirl gets buffs there's no reason to play as any other character outside of aesthetics. Really find it hilarious that people have this near Joker tier vibe about her.

Low-ish damage and lack of safety on strings/teleport are the only thing keeping her in line. She can attack you from anywhere on the screen. That is a giant strength and mind game in itself, but yeah, she must be ass cuz 'muh damage'.

This is exactly my point. Week 1 beta supergirl would be top 5 in this game currently free. Wtf would be the point of playing bats,supes, or aqua with a character like that? lol

 

[Superman64]

Im giving you an example of what a Supergirl with safety looked like. We saw it. We PLAYED it. Im aware of how many characters were in it. I played it lol. Atrocitus was massively downplayed in the beta everyone knew he was busted too. He's virtually untouched same with bats and supes(save his otg getting nerfed) It is a good indicator because you guys want her to have godlike nuetral and safe on everything. Tell me what would b12 being safe change? She'd still have the gaps. What would making b2 1+3 safer do? It would still be punishable on block. My main point is her frames are fine. The gap will never go because they would have to make breath faster. She is fine with the frames she has, she just needs to get better damage for her risk that she takes. Like i said, if she gets after buttons all you guys would say next is "well sure i have safety, but it doesn't matter cus everyone still out damages her" You have to find a safe medium. She can't be safe on everything AND have no gaps but have low damage. That solves nothing. The narrative would just change to oh she gets no damage. I'm not sure what you guys expect from a character that basically has everything.

in the beta she was:
+7 on 112
+1 on the re-stand
+1 on f23 air grab on block
frost breath extended was +1

and she did no damage. That still made her busted. You have to pick one. I'd rather have the current supergirl but with higher damage. She's more fair this way




This is exactly my point. Week 1 beta supergirl would be top 5 in this game currently free. Wtf would be the point of playing bats,supes, or aqua with a character like that? lol

See we have no guaranteed proof since it was only 1 week of gameplay by inexperienced players. Now im not saying she is wasn't potentially top 5 but we couldn't truly know. I'm not asking for to be like the beta im not truly asking for anything. This whole conversation started because i wasn't giving her enough credit with he b2 mix up. which i still don't think that is good. but if i had to change super girl i would get rid of the gap in 112 and restand +1 or get rid of it. frost breath -6 and mb frost breath +1 b123- -4 that is it don't want her to be plus just safe. That is the only way i would change supergirl.

 

[x TeeJay o]

See we have no guaranteed proof since it was only 1 week of gameplay by inexperienced players. Now im not saying she is wasn't potentially top 5 but we couldn't truly know. I'm not asking for to be like the beta im not truly asking for anything. This whole conversation started because i wasn't giving her enough credit with he b2 mix up. which i still don't think that is good. but if i had to change super girl i would get rid of the gap in 112 and restand +1 or get rid of it. frost breath -6 and mb frost breath +1 b123- -4 that is it don't want her to be plus just safe. That is the only way i would change supergirl.

Bro sonicfox is not a inexperienced player lol. Every pro on the scene knew she was busted. MB breath was already +1 before didn't turn out so good

 

[Zoidberg747]

Not sure where the miscommunication here is. I'll break it down really slow.

Record Adam doing f12xx4 b12

Controlling Firestorm yourself, duck f1, stand block 2, reversal charge.

You can even check your execution of the recording by stand blocking the string, and you will get beat out of the reversal. But duck the high, and you beat b12.

I'm not sure why the AI reversal is slower, but it is. Might have to do with THTB's stickied post on reversals, maybe the buffer window doesn't apply for AI. I'll post my own video when I'm able to if need be.

Edit:

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AsqsrX8G-3GcgQs7EvTDg5MdqqPe

Here's the clip. First I stand block f12 and get hit out of my reversal. Second I crouch f1 and beat out b12.

While this is true BA can d1 after to beat the reversal, so the risk reward is heavily in his favor in this scenario.

 

[wsj515]

While this is true BA can d1 after to beat the reversal, so the risk reward is heavily in his favor in this scenario.

I completely agree. My whole point was that there are still things people aren't doing in the matchup, and I never made a comment on balance.

So who gets infracted now, you or me? Don't worry, I didn't tag a mod in my previous post.

 

[Superman64]

Bro sonicfox is not a inexperienced player lol. Every pro on the scene knew she was busted. MB breath was already +1 before didn't turn out so good

See now your just picking and choosing what parts to quote to argue with me for know reason so our discussion ends hear.

edit: Pros arent always right they can be wrong you know but i dont know but i did say she could of potentially been top 5 never said she couldnt. and mb breath being plus 1 wasnt the only thing that made her so called OP but i guess. She is fine right cant get any buffs or OP. Her nuetral is so great that she doesn"t need anything else. Just ask Braniac he can testify how that turned and he even has better damage. lol

 

[x TeeJay o]

See now your just picking and choosing what parts to quote to argue with me for know reason so our discussion ends hear.

edit: Pros arent always right they can be wrong you know but i dont know but i did say she could of potentially been top 5 never said she couldnt. and mb breath being plus 1 wasnt the only thing that made her so called OP but i guess. She is fine right cant get any buffs or OP. Her nuetral is so great that she doesn"t need anything else. Just ask Braniac he can testify how that turned and he even has better damage. lol

I was just responding to the things you gave me an answer for. But it's fine I wasn't trying to argue I was just saying we have to be careful how we treat this character. It's not a matter of who's right and who's wrong, back then the entire community knew she was way too good lol. It's not rocket science. Right now she's an average character mainly because she has to take many risks for low reward. So yeah, bottom line is her neutral is awesome and deserved a 4/5 and that's all tha really matters at this point

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Keep the gaps, her damage is what needs to be addressed. I guarantee you if she did 380 or 410 damage for 1 bar w her current frame data, she would be top.

I disagree here -- there's no way a character should be blown up for full combo every time they use any footsie string on block, with any cancel. Just doesn't make sense.

 

[Fred Marvel]

he wakes up better than about half the cast.

how? everyone can stuff or jump over his only wakeup with invincibility.

 

[Superman64]

I was just responding to the things you gave me an answer for. But it's fine I wasn't trying to argue I was just saying we have to be careful how we treat this character. It's not a matter of who's right and who's wrong, back then the entire community knew she was way too good lol. It's not rocket science. Right now she's an average character mainly because she has to take many risks for low reward. So yeah, bottom line is her neutral is awesome and deserved a 4/5 and that's all tha really matters at this point

Ok nice diccussion then.

edit: The reason i said it like that because im use to people on forums just arguing and getting mad instead of discussion sorry. lol

 

[x TeeJay o]

I disagree here -- there's no way a character should be blown up for full combo every time they use any footsie string on block, with any cancel. Just doesn't make sense.

But if you make her footsie string safe then what? You still will hit like a baby turtle. I don't see how making her safe on everything will help at all. They're not going to revert her back to having nothing but plus frames if she gets safety she'll be minus and lose her turn anyway. She'll still have meter build issues and No damage. At least if she did great damage she would have better reward for her troubles of unsafety in neutral. Honestly making b12 safe would help, but she still wouldn't be great

 

[Superman64]

But if you make her footsie string safe then what? You still will hit like a baby turtle. I don't see how making her safe on everything will help at all. They're not going to revert her back to having nothing but plus frames if she gets safety she'll be minus and lose her turn anyway. She'll still have meter build issues and No damage. At least if she did great damage she would have better reward for her troubles of unsafety in neutral. Honestly making b12 safe would help, but she still wouldn't be great

Id rather her be safe on her strings and gain more meter cause i think her low damage makes her special in a way.

 

[M2Dave]

But if you make her footsie string safe then what? You still will hit like a baby turtle. I don't see how making her safe on everything will help at all. They're not going to revert her back to having nothing but plus frames if she gets safety she'll be minus and lose her turn anyway. She'll still have meter build issues and No damage. At least if she did great damage she would have better reward for her troubles of unsafety in neutral. Honestly making b12 safe would help, but she still wouldn't be great

If she had safe strings, she would be able to play footsies without getting punished, which would be significant. Imagine if Aquaman's b+1,2, Black Adam's f+1,2, or Superman's f+2,3 had a six frame gap. These moves would be far less threatening. Supergirl players are arguing that she should not have mediocre damage output in addition to unsafe strings and limited meter building. I am not interested in using Supergirl, but I can see how she is essentially an inferior version of Superman and the reason no high level player uses her.

 

[x TeeJay o]

If she had safe strings, she would be able to play footsies without getting punished, which would be significant. Imagine if Aquaman's b+1,2, Black Adam's f+1,2, or Superman's f+2,3 had a six frame gap. These moves would be far less threatening. Supergirl players are arguing that she should not have mediocre damage output in addition to unsafe strings and limited meter building. I am not interested in using Supergirl, but I can see how she is essentially an inferior version of Superman and the reason no high level player uses her.

But everyone you just mentioned has those footsie options but the difference is they get 450-500 damage for it. Give Aquaman Supergirls damage with his current footsie options .. he suddenly is less appealing imo

 

[M2Dave]

But everyone you just mentioned has those footsie options but the difference is they get 450-500 damage for it.

And their strings have no gaps. She should either do more damage or have no gaps.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

But everyone you just mentioned has those footsie options but the difference is they get 450-500 damage for it. Give Aquaman Supergirls damage with his current footsie options .. he suddenly is less appealing imo

Do you mean he'd be less appealing than SG or current AM?

 

[HeroesNZ]

But everyone you just mentioned has those footsie options but the difference is they get 450-500 damage for it. Give Aquaman Supergirls damage with his current footsie options .. he suddenly is less appealing imo

Aquaman and BA sure but they're busted. Superman doesn't have the same options in the neutral as Supergirl. She's a more effective counter-zoner with better air mobility since her air dash goes further and she has a float. Supergirl also has a OH/Low 50/50 which impacts on how she's balanced.

Like Paulo said, SG's damage is the cost of having all those tools. All she needs is safety and she'll suddenly become super good.

 

[x TeeJay o]

Aquaman and BA sure but they're busted. Superman doesn't have the same options in the neutral as Supergirl. She's a more effective counter-zoner with better air mobility since her air dash goes further and she has a float. Supergirl also has a OH/Low 50/50 which impacts on how she's balanced.

Like Paulo said, SG's damage is the cost of having all those tools. All she needs is safety and she'll suddenly become super good.

Thats exactly my point lol. She doesn't need everything. It's either one or the other.

And their strings have no gaps. She should either do more damage or have no gaps.

Booyah! That's my point haha. Either remove the gap and make her safer , or leave her as is and boost her damage!

Do you mean he'd be less appealing than SG or current AM?

He would be less appealing than both. What would be the point of using aquaman with those plus strings and footsie options if he hits you for 260 damage for a bar EVERYTIME. I'd rather use supergirl as she would have better options in neutral if Aqua was that way

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Thats exactly my point lol. She doesn't need everything. It's either one or the other.




Booyah! That's my point haha. Either remove the gap and make her safer , or leave her as is and boost her damage!



He would be less appealing than both. What would be the point of using aquaman with those plus strings and footsie options if he hits you for 260 damage for a bar EVERYTIME. I'd rather use supergirl as she would have better options in neutral if Aqua was that way

I mean sometimes I opt for mb trident rush instead of combos to remove wakeups and not get air escaped on, he'd still probably be top ten he'd just be spending all his bar on trident rush.

 

[x TeeJay o]

I mean sometimes I opt for mb trident rush instead of combos to remove wakeups and not get air escaped on, he'd still probably be top ten he'd just be spending all his bar on trident rush.

She has a restand to avoid wakeups. Plus bar on TRIDENT rush < bar on ice breath for full combo . Although that trident rush can be used for amazing chip. U can push block it tho!

 

[Superman64]

She has a restand to avoid wakeups. Plus bar on TRIDENT rush < bar on ice breath for full combo . Although that trident rush can be used for amazing chip. U can push block it tho!

her restand is only 0 so its not her turn anymore which sorta defeats the purpose