This Is A Hunt I've Longed For: Cheetah General Discussion

[Rip Torn]

I hear you and I get that but with delayed wakeup... I'm still the one that has to guess. I'll lab it. Need to find out how many more frames delayed is so if i whiff mb f3 (just wasted a bar thats hard to get) what I can do to keep my turn].

Edit: Can you delay wakeup a hkd?

You can delay a HKD but if you delay wakeup then you can't do a wakeup attack so you are free to any sort of pressure string, jump in, cross up etc...

 

[Zionix]

I was in the lab and thinking about the direction of the meta for her and while some have brought up her gaps often, there's a special caveat for that. This caveat also applies to her command grabs on block.

Cancelling her strings on block into pounce catches the recovery frames of back dashes, even Cheetah's godlike backdash is vulnerable to this tactic so it gives her a meta game to play with the opponent so even though she lacks the range to really chase down back dashes on the ground, she can do so with lunge and if you're wrong and they simply block, at least you're out of dodge and safe so it's a nice little nuance to think about for keeping people on their toes.

The core strings/buttons I use when I play her now are: Back 1,1, (sometimes I use the last hit of the string down 3) as it is starts with a low, is 12 frames with decent range and Back 1,1 is gapless, safe and you can obviously cancel into pounce or back dash if you choose to do so. It's great for conditioning with down 3 so you can set up a low grab scenario.

Forward 2,3 is my other staple string. The safety, the fact that Forward 2 is neutral on block, breaks armor and such is huge and on hit you can hit the grab on the end to go into her super plus restand and the full string is only minus 4 on block. She gets pretty decent cancel advantage to go into lunge to get out of dodge.

Down 2 and down 1 I'm thinking of making my go to tick throws primarily.

1,1,2 and 1,2, throw will remain extremely prudent for armor breaking and the mix up you can glean from combining the two despite gaps.

Standing 2 is her good mid button check and 2,2 is decent too, especially if you think the opponent will back dash, you can scout them and either continue the pressure or get a punish.

I LOVE to do regular throws, people are always expecting low or high command grab, but there's no reason not to mix in regular throw on a regular basis with her.

Back 2 I like for its speed, range, pushback and safety, just a really decent check neutral plus the throw options you can tag on obviously.

Just some ideas I'm throwing around, really excited to see how she develops over time.

Great post, some insight into her neutral game.

Just some thoughts from myself;

Don't expect to consistently land command grabs in a ranked match, they require conditioning of the opponent and this is very difficult in such small time frame.

Her throw is godlike, good range, good corner carry, good hit advantage, use it.

D1 tick throw is worse than just going for db1 or dbf1, if your in range for a command grab just do it. You can usually tell if the opponent is holding back or staying put.

After a jump in do St.2. Going for a high is risky and d1 is only plus 10 on hit where as S2 is plus 21. The first few times they will probably be mashing and get hit by St.2 so feel free to do 2,2 and hitconfirm into DB2 or a bounce cancel for damage. Once they realize they need to respect your jump ins do St.2 db1 or dbf1. Its one of out best mix opportunities and we have time to see which one to do and hope for the best!

Once you start landing F3 in the corner, you no longer need to do D3 to check them. Do Cheetahs other strings or just command grab if your feeling yourself. You are plus 10 remember use the advantage wisely!

The main thing is to remember cheetahs damage output, its big. So be patient and respect wake-ups at all times. If you want to pile on the pressure after knockdown buffer mb behind F3 to add armor.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Yeah! I can't wait for people to learn the MU so we can start using all that stuff haha, right now there's no point on canceling strings into lunge if people don't even know about the gaps.

My favorite strings are 112, 12~throw, B11D3 and F23 as well, I haven't found another use for all her other strings, 22 is obviously good for the mid and 332 is good because it's long and you can hit confirm it, also it's very useful in the Swamp Thing MU.

D1 and S2 are my go-to tick throws as well... I need to start using D2 tick more.

 

[Igniz13]

Does Cheetah have a good advancing string? I.e one that moves her forward at the start. B1 and F3 seem to be the closest she has

 

[bishbash]

Does Cheetah have a good advancing string? I.e one that moves her forward at the start. B1 and

She doesn't, her jump ins seem to have little priority also so finding anyone with ranged normals and a half decent AA pretty hard to get in on. Her f3 does have decent range once you have people respecting it you can catch them with a dash in d1-dbf1 to catch them walking back. On block from the right distance you can also do a d1-tick throw as a follow up. I'm finding it hard to get in in a lot of MU's ATM but she's just so fun I can't give up on her

 

[Deleted member 5032]

She doesn't, her jump ins seem to have little priority also so finding anyone with ranged normals and a half decent AA pretty hard to get in on. Her f3 does have decent range once you have people respecting it you can catch them with a dash in d1-dbf1 to catch them walking back. On block from the right distance you can also do a d1-tick throw as a follow up. I'm finding it hard to get in in a lot of MU's ATM but she's just so fun I can't give up on her

That's what's been driving me crazy. 90% of my opponents just walk backwards. I mean, it's great that they want to walk themselves into the corner, it's just so boring to play against. She can't catch backward-walking characters without Blood Lunge. Even f3 will just be blocked and then she can't really follow it up with anything.

 

[JesterSMX]

I'm working on the delayed wakeup problems I have. Is it still 3 frames to jump?

 

[alkipot]

How would you guys feel If you can make leap armoured with a MB? Do yonot think this would help her get in? I absolutely agree that the motion should be changed to db3...

Also, notice that she has some crawl move that I have yet to acquire as an unlockable move... it's pretty annoying to not have that move in her base moveset.

 

[kcd117]

That's what's been driving me crazy. 90% of my opponents just walk backwards. I mean, it's great that they want to walk themselves into the corner, it's just so boring to play against. She can't catch backward-walking characters without Blood Lunge. Even f3 will just be blocked and then she can't really follow it up with anything.

Walking backwards seems to be a thing against cheetah, most of the times I try to dash in and sweep, but her D3 whiffs a lot in some matchups, even in the corner against floaty characters if they are moving back, especially green lantern. Superman and Supergirl can make her D3 whiff sometimes when they are walking foward and with some of their strings. It's pretty frustrating when u are playing footsies trying to get a knockdown and ends up getting punished because u made the right read but the sweep mysteriously whiffed.

 

[JesterSMX]

Walking backwards seems to be a thing against cheetah, most of the times I try to dash in and sweep, but her D3 whiffs a lot in some matchups, even in the corner against floaty characters if they are moving back, especially green lantern. Superman and Supergirl can make her D3 whiff sometimes when they are walking foward and with some of their strings. It's pretty frustrating when u are playing footsies trying to get a knockdown and ends up getting punished because u made the right read but the sweep mysteriously whiffed.

Black Adam's forward moving string too.

 

[kcd117]

Black Adam's forward moving string too.

Yeah that one low crushes hard, u can mash sweep as much as you want u are not catching BA when he's doing that string. The whole string whiffs on cheetah tho, so if u time your D3 right you can punish him, but I feel like cheetah shits on Black Adam anyway so that's just one more thing she can abuse in that MU. Now GL making it whiff at point blank range feels bad, considering it's already so hard to get something going on that matchup, a knckdown can mean a whole lifebar most of the times.

 

[Igniz13]

How would you guys feel If you can make leap armoured with a MB? Do yonot think this would help her get in? I absolutely agree that the motion should be changed to db3...

Also, notice that she has some crawl move that I have yet to acquire as an unlockable move... it's pretty annoying to not have that move in her base moveset.

I'd like this and for her meter burn bl to be something she can do out of it as a seperate move. Make it more than a command jump and give it some options

 

[Deleted member 5032]

Finally got mopped by an amazing Darkseid last night. The main issue was that she can't low-profile his High Omega Beam like she can other projectiles (even mids, like Fate's). She can neutral crouch it, but she can't hold Blood Lunge, at least from full screen. It also recovers quickly enough to allow a second Omega Beam on reaction if she tries to crouch and punish.

Luckily, this kind of goes both ways, as her d3 will low-profile his wakeup Knee attack.

The other issue I was having was consistently punishing his air teleport. Her d2 just has no horizontal range. In the future, I think I'm just going to walk back and try to whiff punish.

 

[kcd117]

Finally got mopped by an amazing Darkseid last night. The main issue was that she can't low-profile his High Omega Beam like she can other projectiles (even mids, like Fate's). She can neutral crouch it, but she can't hold Blood Lunge, at least from full screen. It also recovers quickly enough to allow a second Omega Beam on reaction if she tries to crouch and punish.

Luckily, this kind of goes both ways, as her d3 will low-profile his wakeup Knee attack.

The other issue I was having was consistently punishing his air teleport. Her d2 just has no horizontal range. In the future, I think I'm just going to walk back and try to whiff punish.

When they are being too predictable with the teleport and you antecipate it you can just walk outside the range of J3 stomp and whiff punish with F3, if they are not canceling J3 into stomp you can mbF3 on reaction. If you have no meter you can always walk back to make it whiff and D3.
Darkseid feels like the kind of MU that you have to get a comfortable life lead and just play lame avoiding the chip from fullscreen, the darkseid player usually gets impatient and either wastes all his meter trying to chip you or tries to come in with teleport, if he has no meter you can just walk your way in while he corners himself, if he teleports you can punish and abuse his weak wakeup game against cheetah. It's a tricky one but patience always wins that match, from both sides.

 

[JesterSMX]

Finally got mopped by an amazing Darkseid last night. The main issue was that she can't low-profile his High Omega Beam like she can other projectiles (even mids, like Fate's). She can neutral crouch it, but she can't hold Blood Lunge, at least from full screen. It also recovers quickly enough to allow a second Omega Beam on reaction if she tries to crouch and punish.

Luckily, this kind of goes both ways, as her d3 will low-profile his wakeup Knee attack.

The other issue I was having was consistently punishing his air teleport. Her d2 just has no horizontal range. In the future, I think I'm just going to walk back and try to whiff punish.

Stance is useless in the match up. One small area can be low profiled but its impractical to use it at all. Ending in high command grab puts you at perfect space and advantage to go for a normal jump in. If he wakes up with knee you jump over him and you can punish with divekick (someone suggested this earlier in this thread.) If he tries to anti air with up laser your jump in 1 will catch him in start up frames. I don't know if d2 will beat it. I don't have much of an answer for minion teleport setups yet.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

For minions, I just always assume he's going for the cross-up tech. If he doesn't I eat a small chunk of damage; much more preferable to the 500+ you would eat if he lands the cross-up.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

Has anyone found a good answer to Superman's f23, other than mb.f3? I've managed to whiff punish it one time during the hundreds of times it has been thrown out so far.

 

[kcd117]

Has anyone found a good answer to Superman's f23, other than mb.f3? I've managed to whiff punish it one time during the hundreds of times it has been thrown out so far.

When he is doing f23 breath into another f23 breath you can backdash, if he is just doing f23 into f23 you can blood lunge in between, cancel into backdash and whiff punish

 

[PND OmegaK]

Has anyone found a good answer to Superman's f23, other than mb.f3? I've managed to whiff punish it one time during the hundreds of times it has been thrown out so far.

D3. Low profiles it.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

D3. Low profiles it.

I've been trying that, but I find it inconsistent. The spacing and timing have to be perfect or else you either whiff and have to block, or you get tagged and eat a 500+ damage combo. Even if you succeed, you just get your 70ish damage and a hdk, which doesn't mean a whole lot against Superman. I'll keep testing it, but right now I find the risk-vs-reward for that strategy a bit out of whack. That said, I still have no better solution to offer.

 

[kcd117]

I've been trying that, but I find it inconsistent. The spacing and timing have to be perfect or else you either whiff and have to block, or you get tagged and eat a 500+ damage combo. Even if you succeed, you just get your 70ish damage and a hdk, which doesn't mean a whole lot against Superman. I'll keep testing it, but right now I find the risk-vs-reward for that strategy a bit out of whack. That said, I still have no better solution to offer.

In the neutral D3 and neutral jumps are your best option, but if superman is trying to pressure with f23 or f23 breath you can blood lunge cancel into backdash in between to get a full combo punish unless you are in the corner, in that case you just hold blood lunge until he whiffs the last hit of the string and leap out of the corner. the only thing that beats it is his D1 but he doesn't get much out of it. Just getting supes to respect your options after you blocked his main string can help cheetah a lot in that matchup.

 

[Error]

I'm not able to end corner combos with f23 1+3. It always seems to whiff, what am I missing?

It's really only consistent off of a few launchers, like f3, mb dive and mb grabs throwing into the corner and the most you can do before the f23 is a jump 1 or 3 depending on the launcher.

Off f3 you want the nj3 to hit pretty late before doing the f23 for example.

 

[Igniz13]

You can os a dive against darksied if he teleports behind you, air df2 will turn into a dive and catch him out.

Because input issues make hitconfirming hard, and cheetahs only grounded combo move is db2. Is anyone going into close lunge and hoping for a cross-up to get an easier confirm rather than dp and pray?

 

[JesterSMX]

Went through an aquaman gauntlet during esl... I'm convinced aqua can pop trait in between 11...trait...2. By that time I've already canceled into dp and he gets a free combo. We need anti aqua trait tech. Any ideas other than bounce cancel? Also, what is deadshot's worse matchup? Green Arrow?

 

[Zionix]

Went through an aquaman gauntlet during esl... I'm convinced aqua can pop trait in between 11...trait...2. By that time I've already canceled into dp and he gets a free combo. We need anti aqua trait tech. Any ideas other than bounce cancel? Also, what is deadshot's worse matchup? Green Arrow?

We already have it really. He can't trait B2 into DBF1, main problem is we can't always get it.

It's just a struggle man.