Discussion Australian man makes tier list, world peace occurs as a result! (Current All Variation Tier List)

[Rolling_Toaster]

dragon semij (last i asked him) and tom think kitana beats gm and dragon mauls all subs.

i think the mu is even af though.

back on topic:
sub zero is not better than jason or mystic. sub loses like 10 mus and jason loses like 1 and mystic loses like 3.

 

[TheGangstaFace]

Yeah that's true, it should be based on matchup charts, but when was the last time we had a tier list actually based on those? Lol

It's kinda hard in a game with 100 variations lol that's 99 mu's you gotta know breh.

I honestly was just thinking HW may actually be the best variation against Piercing because of the restand and rocket is a good trade but then guess what? Inconsistent links lol. 123 at certain ranges is just unrealistic as hell to link 3B2.

Oh yeah plus another point I didn't bring up is that there's no point of baiting anything with cancels because he won't have enough stamina to convert off anything lol. Unless someone tries to armor for some reason and it's negative enough to punish with S3

 

[TheGangstaFace]

Bleh. Just talking about HW Jax makes me wanna puke. I don't even know how they could improve this character

 

[myri]

What are your reasons for these decisions?

Imposter being up in S+ and Necromancer up in A+
Spec Ops being up in A+
Gunslinger being up in A+
Spectral being down in A+
Dualist being up in A
All of Kotal being down in A
Vicious being up in A
Venomous being up in A
Cyrax being up in A
Heavy Weapons being down in B+
Cyber Sub Zero being down in B+
Outlaw as the worst variation in the game

(Side note: You have Shaolin listed in A+ AND A, and any of the things I haven't mentioned above I pretty much agree with )

Don't have the energy to tackle all of these right now so I'll just start with a few.

Outlaw: I really don't see what the idea with this variation is, I mean Erron gets some crappy sword strings with really bad hitboxes and an unsafe special combo starter. I mean there isn't a single GOOD thing about this variation as far as I can see, the sword strings don't really help his neutral at all and why would you go for this variation when both Gunslinger and Marksman have safe options for this. Variationless Erron is better honestly.

Heavy Weapons: Basically everything Gangsta said but also his cancels can all mostly be poked out of now as well so his pressure isn't as scary.

Cyrax: I think he's being downplayed honestly but whatever. This is a character that is okay, not great but okay. He has his shitty matchups but so do most characters, it does not invalidate the character. The hardest part I think people find is just getting that first touch to get started, same as with Bo and since this game has supposedly shifted towards a more neutral based meta he struggles harder than Smoke or Sektor but when he can get a touch he can do wonders.

 

[myri]

Haven'tplayed or watched shit in weeks but BOIIIII let me tell you how smart I am.

- Shinnok better than Tremor/Jason/Jacqui? Don't see it fam. Making better reads onHS/actually punishing HS makes a world of difference.
- Mileena best var piercing?? Not sure I'd have her top top either, but still high.
- Raiden down a tier or two.
- Goro DF higher in A+, Kuatan higher in A

Rest I didn't really look at/care about.

Point is I don't trust any Australian tier lists, hence why I've never made on either. All this shit's relative and even my suggestions there mean absoultely nothing. Let's just plaaaaaayyyyy.

Yeah I don't really give a shit about tiers, I was just kinda bored and wanted to discuss shit y'know.

 

[meanzuga]

Heavy Weapons: Basically everything Gangsta said but also his cancels can all mostly be poked out of now as well so his pressure isn't as scary.

His cancels always could be mostly poked out of, for the exception of normals which you would never be using like s4. There was b3, but was like +1 if you nailed the timing. Every other cancel on block was pointless.

HW was always a bill, the real reason people used him was because he had the easiest hit confirms of jax's 3 variations (rocket cancels). His scaling was worse if you rocket canceled, he always had the worst projectile, was always more stamina dependent.

The only thing I saw particularly good in HW ever was his easy conversions, his option to launch without using EX OHDP, and the slightly plus b3 cancel.


IN CONCLUSION: his pressure was never scary (as in no scarier than any of the other variations, and always less so than wrestler's)

 

[SaltShaker]

Well the OP says grab your saltshakers so

@SaltShaker get in here boi

Oh I'm here alright, in spirit. -.-

 

[YUZU_RZA]

Considering moving Hollywood and Hellfire, Shaolin I already moved up.

Also thank you.

All good fam. Also I recommend you to watch video from my boi "happy pow". He's the best Nimble in the world right know. You'll might moved up nimble after that

 

[Mashbuttontatoes]

@TheGangstaFace I still play HW and I really don't think he's THAT bad you can still confirm mid screen into ex OH!

 

[rainuS]

If Displacer is powerful, and a cursory glance at the most recent tournaments I could find in which Displacer was played all of never, why isn't it in any tournaments?

 

[YUZU_RZA]

If Displacer is powerful, and a cursory glance at the most recent tournaments I could find in which Displacer was played all of never, why isn't it in any tournaments?

Execution.

 

[The_Tile]

NPO within a tier
Fucking Dank:
Jason Unstoppable
Sonya Demo
Sonya Special Forces
Mileena Ethereal
Mileena Piercing
Takeda Lasher
Predator HQT
Shinnok Boneshaper
Liu Kang Dragons Fire
Ermac Mystic
Raiden Displacer
Quan Chi Summoner
Triborg Smoke
Triborg Sektor

Very Dank:
Jason Relentless
Kenshi Possessed
Kitana Royal Storm
Scorpion Hellfire
Sub-Zero Grandmaster
Mileena Ravenous
Takeda Shirai Ryu
Cassie Hollywood
Jacqui Full Auto
Jacqui Shotgun
Kung Jin Shaolin
Tanya Pyromancer
Shinnok Imposter
Kano Cutthroat
Liu Kang Flame Fist
Ermac Spectral
Reptile Nimble
Reptile Deceptive
Quan Chi Sorcerer
Tremor Crystalline
Tremor Aftershock

Somewhat Dank:
Alien Acidic
Alien Konjurer
Jason Slasher
Kung Lao Tempest
Kung Lao Buzzsaw
Sonya Covert Ops
Kitana Assassin
Kitana Mournful
Scorpion Ninjutsu
Sub-Zero Unbreakable
Takeda Ronin
Cassie Brawler
Kung Jin Bojutsu
Kung Jin Ancestral
Tanya Naginata
Tanya Kobu
BRC Dragons Breath
Leatherface Killer
Leatherface Butcher
Shinnok Necromancer
Kano Commando
Liu Kang Dualist
Ermac MOS
Kotal Sun God
Reptile Noxious
F/T Ruthless
D'Vorah Swarm Queen
Goro Dragon Fangs
Goro Tigrar Fury

Not Dank:
Jax Wrestler
Sub-Zero Cryomancer
Cassie Spec Ops
BRC Bartitsu
Predator Hunter
Kano Cybernetic
Johnny Cage A-List
Kotal War God
F/T Vicious
D'Vorah Brood Mother
Raiden Thunder God
Triborg Cyber Sub-Zero

Very not Dank:
Kung Lao Hat Trick
Jax Heavy Weapons
Jax Pumped Up
Kenshi Balanced
Leatherface Pretty Lady
Predator Warrior
Cage Fisticuffs
Cage Stunt Double
Erron Black Gunslinger
Kotal Blood God
Quan Chi Warlock
D'Vorah Venomous
Tremor Metallic
Triborg Cyrax

Really no trace of any Dank:
Alien Tarkatan
Kenshi Kenjutsu
Jacqui High Tech
Erron Black Marksman
Raiden MOS
Goro KW

Lol fuck off:
Scorpion Inferno
BRC Drunken Master
Erron Black Outlaw
F/T Lackey

Couple things people may have issues with:
- added lol fuck off tier because I feel that some of the characters belong there. These characters don't even have a defined playstyle or strategy imo.

- Grandmaster and Possessed are where they are because I feel they have more losing matchups (Grandmaster) and less winning (Possessed) than the characters they would be potentially placed with in fucking dank tier.

-Cryomancer is where he is due to a poor neutral and footsie game, bad frames on everything, unsafe offense, and meh damage. His powerful mixups and knockdowns can be very overwhelming if he manages to get the momentum, keeping him from being lower.

Could you explain why Summoner is higher than Sorcerer? When I saw that I instantly got triggered lol

Edit: I'd swap Sorcerer and Summoner and bump Metallic up to either the same tier as the other two variations or one below.

Sorcerer is just fucking insane and there's no doubt in my mind he's a better character than Summoner. I can see Sorcerer having the most 7-3s in the game besides GM whereas Summoner is still amazing, just not on the level of Sorcerer. The armor portal is the strongest move in the game alongside clone.

I'm not the best educated on Metallic but his counter zoning is pretty good with the lava boulder or the gold rock throw things, either the up or straight one, because they travel so slowly. The restand is actually really good in this meta too imo cause he gets a guaranteed F1 from it so even with the 2-hits-of-armor changes he still gets guaranteed 'oki' after every combo.

 

[Yer_Da]

If Displacer is powerful, and a cursory glance at the most recent tournaments I could find in which Displacer was played all of never, why isn't it in any tournaments?

Execution and maybe people just don't want to play him? A lot of people could see that prepatch Cutthroat Kano was a top 5 variation but, maybe, people just don't like the character, regardless of how good they are?

EDIT: Not a dig at you, buddy, but I hate the whole "this wasn't in tournament therefore it's not good" argument. If that was the case then Erron Black is the best character in MKX's history.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Could you explain why Summoner is higher than Sorcerer? When I saw that I instantly got triggered lol

I think they're about neck and neck, I wouldn't really fault anyone for arranging any of the character in tiers 1 and 2 in any order. Imo Summoner is more applicable in more situations overall, and the bat has never been better other than pre XL imo. That being said the armor spell has never been more busted so I can definitely see why some people think Sorcerer is better.

 

[myri]

Main thing with displacer is why would you play him (he is really good no doubt) when you can do about as well with a character like Smoke or Sektor whose execution is VERY easy.

 

[The_Tile]

I think they're about neck and neck, I wouldn't really fault anyone for arranging any of the character in tiers 1 and 2 in any order. Imo Summoner is more applicable in more situations overall, and the bat has never been better other than pre XL imo. That being said the armor spell has never been more busted so I can definitely see why some people think Sorcerer is better.

I added justifications in the first post btw if you want an explanation, also im gonna be very disappointed if you're name is 'Dankster' Morgan and you don't smoke a lil dank yourself

 

[SaSSolino]

Jason is not S++, so this tier list is stupid.

 

[Meep8345]

Don't have the energy to tackle all of these right now so I'll just start with a few.

Outlaw: I really don't see what the idea with this variation is, I mean Erron gets some crappy sword strings with really bad hitboxes and an unsafe special combo starter. I mean there isn't a single GOOD thing about this variation as far as I can see, the sword strings don't really help his neutral at all and why would you go for this variation when both Gunslinger and Marksman have safe options for this. Variationless Erron is better honestly.

Heavy Weapons: Basically everything Gangsta said but also his cancels can all mostly be poked out of now as well so his pressure isn't as scary.

Cyrax: I think he's being downplayed honestly but whatever. This is a character that is okay, not great but okay. He has his shitty matchups but so do most characters, it does not invalidate the character. The hardest part I think people find is just getting that first touch to get started, same as with Bo and since this game has supposedly shifted towards a more neutral based meta he struggles harder than Smoke or Sektor but when he can get a touch he can do wonders.

Outlaws NJP is plus no matter the height you use it at and its the only njp in the game to my knowledge that lets you do that and if you hit it low enough you can jail a d1 and ex tarkatan stab can sometimes stop people neutral jumping erron on knockdown. But honestly outlaw is trash lol.

 

[The_Tile]

I think they're about neck and neck, I wouldn't really fault anyone for arranging any of the character in tiers 1 and 2 in any order. Imo Summoner is more applicable in more situations overall, and the bat has never been better other than pre XL imo. That being said the armor spell has never been more busted so I can definitely see why some people think Sorcerer is better.

And to properly answer, Summoner is slightly more applicable but what Sorcerer gets is SO much more potent it doesn't even matter, it's not like armor is hard to get out anyway. It's pretty much just as easy as the bat cause even if you do it randomly in the neutral, unless your opponent reads it with a fast normal, you still have enough time to D3 which guarantees a 50/50 which can be made safe with meter and by the time they've guessed right armor is back and they have to guess again.

I'm not denying Summoner is good, he's amazing in this meta. People amazing are SERIOUSLY sleeping on Sorcerer though and it boggles my mind. He destroys so much of the cast. Like, destroys them, has very few bad MUs AND once the armor is up he requires no thought really. It lasts 9/10 seconds, you can get up to 3 hits of armor from it and if you time it properly you can spawn one the MOMENT the other one starts to disappear and he can spawn another one ready.

And on top of this his meter drain takes INSANE amounts of meter and his chip rune still does major work, despite not having touch of death combos anymore.

Yeah bad formatting I know but Sorcerer triggers me like no other and I play the god damn character lol.

TLDR: Sorcerer is insane.

 

[ismael4790]

Could you explain why Summoner is higher than Sorcerer? When I saw that I instantly got triggered lol

Edit: I'd swap Sorcerer and Summoner and bump Metallic up to either the same tier as the other two variations or one below.

Sorcerer is just fucking insane and there's no doubt in my mind he's a better character than Summoner. I can see Sorcerer having the most 7-3s in the game besides GM whereas Summoner is still amazing, just not on the level of Sorcerer. The armor portal is the strongest move in the game alongside clone.

I'm not the best educated on Metallic but his counter zoning is pretty good with the lava boulder or the gold rock throw things, either the up or straight one, because they travel so slowly. The restand is actually really good in this meta too imo cause he gets a guaranteed F1 from it so even with the 2-hits-of-armor changes he still gets guaranteed 'oki' after every combo.

I'm sure if Sonic Fox picked Sorcerer, he would rape everybody and we would get another patch lol

 

[TheGangstaFace]

@TheGangstaFace I still play HW and I really don't think he's THAT bad you can still confirm mid screen into ex OH!

Not off a cancel unless you manage to get the crispiest cancels ever

 

[CrazyFingers]

Not off a cancel unless you manage to get the crispier to cancels ever

Speaking of which, is the link into the S4 launching string a 1f link?

 

[TheGangstaFace]

Speaking of which, is the link into the S4 launching string a 1f link?

S3 you mean?

 

[CrazyFingers]

S3 you mean?

Yes that one. I don't play jax xD

 

[TheGangstaFace]

Yes that one. I don't play jax xD

Lol it depends what it's off of. Idk exactly all the links. You could ask @GOOD DRAGON though