General/Other - Sub-Zero Sub-Zero General Discussion

[Mark von Zoftmutter]

I have execution problems playing cryo with his command grab. Perhaps I'll be able to get used to it with training, but what about tick throws? I find doing for example b3 dbf3 is almost impossible, also s1 into dbf3 extremely hard. Any ideas or recommendations? What about gameplay settings do they help? For example turning on negative edge or input shortcuts, how do you have that set up in general?

I've never messed with those settings and left them alone on default. I tried turning on negative edge and input shortcuts but it doesn't seem to make any positive effect. On the contrary I get some unwanted special moves with negative edge on. As I said any ideas would be very helpfull since he is my main and after the patch this is a completely different character. Don't get me wrong I love him even more now, but he became a whole lot more difficult.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

I have execution problems playing cryo with his command grab. Perhaps I'll be able to get used to it with training, but what about tick throws? I find doing for example b3 dbf3 is almost impossible, also s1 into dbf3 extremely hard. Any ideas or recommendations? What about gameplay settings do they help? For example turning on negative edge or input shortcuts, how do you have that set up in general?

I've never messed with those settings and left them alone on default. I tried turning on negative edge and input shortcuts but it doesn't seem to make any positive effect. On the contrary I get some unwanted special moves with negative edge on. As I said any ideas would be very helpfull since he is my main and after the patch this is a completely different character. Don't get me wrong I love him even more now, but he became a whole lot more difficult.

I can't speak for Sub directly, but as Commando Kano I've had found that sliding my thumb from D to back, then hitting forward, has helped me a lot. Ive tried just tapping down, back then forward and I've tried kind of sliding down to back to forward and ended up mixing the two and haven't really had much trouble sense then.. so I just hit down, slide my tbumb to back, then lift it and tap forward. I have all options turned off.

 

[Revenant Zero]

Which variation are you guys using against Venomous D'Vorah and Mystic Ermac?

I usually test the waters with GM, but I use Unbreakable against D'vorah in all cases and then depending how skilled they are with Mystic, I'll stick with GM if not switch to Unbreakable.

Aura on, ex slide if he's going to be a dick and hang em or push. If he's in the corner and has a bar, mystic is pretty much going to ex the soul blast but if you block it, he'll be in range of punish. (B2 is unsafe and his D1 will probably catch you for a hang em combo).

 

[xQUANTUMx]

Yeah good idea. Plus the sound it makes when he blocks venom with aura up is awesome

match still sucks lol. Just Fyi

 

[Revenant Zero]

>cries #4everscrubzero

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I feel like Sub can fight everyone except Ermac now. He used to get dicked by like 10 characters. Ermac is easily his worst MU now and it was arguably not one of his top 5 worst pre patch so that's pretty nice lol.

 

[Lord Beef]

WTF am I supposed to do against a competent BRC? He's got the mix, hes got the corner shenanigans, he's got some crazy good anti zoning. I can't chip him from afar so working a lead is tough and being next to him is terrifying.

HALP MEH. I am either approaching this MU completely wrong, or I am missing something.

 

[Tanno]

WTF am I supposed to do against a competent BRC? He's got the mix, hes got the corner shenanigans, he's got some crazy good anti zoning. I can't chip him from afar so working a lead is tough and being next to him is terrifying.

HALP MEH. I am either approaching this MU completely wrong, or I am missing something.

One rule: NEVER GET CORNERED!

If you freeze him in center, then get him over to the corner, and then keep kloning in zero point. He can't do anything at this place. Do NOT let him corner you, because he'll jump out to do the fart to prevent you from getting out of the corner by jumping. If you get cornered, find a way out of there.

For Bartitsu, do ONLY F42xxKlone, and then either do the iceball, or slide, or block. Bartitsu has a weapon.

Dragon Breath is the strongest against GM, and thus get him cornered. Drunken Master is the weakest, because he has only the drinks and the fists, and nothing else.

 

[ILuvFightGames]

What's the best follow up after b2 midscreen with GM?

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Yeah, Ermac is still tough as hell. Even if Unbreakable is the Best Choice... But Player still trumps Character...for me anyway.

Everytime I play high level players it's always a struggle regardless of Character. I really need to work on my spacing punishing. It's still a big hole in my game just don't know how to practice it.

How's the Summoner Match Up VS Grandmaster anyway?

I played a really good Summoner today with Solid fundamentals. He Mopped me and then some. Getting in was so hard. Corner could go either way but I felt helpless with GM.

Summoner is really momentum based. If he hits you and sends you full screen it becomes very hard. If you open him up and knock him down he is helpless.

 

[Tanno]

Either just slide or Run then F42, Slide. Run F42 Ex Ice Ball used to be an option but not sure if it works post patch anymore...well it seems harder that's for sure...

Or if you're fast in running, you can do 123, B12, etc. I did exactly the same and did the 123xxSlide.

 

[boba_buster]

Or if you're fast in running, you can do 123, B12, etc. I did exactly the same and did the 123xxSlide.

It's not about being fast in running .... it depends on how you hit with the b2. Off a jip b2 you can run b12 but a raw b2 you can't unless your really really close

 

[ShadyHeart]

Some people just love counter picking CO Sonya with grand master. I have no idea what she can do to get passed his clone when he just throws it up and stays behind it the entire match. I always just pick Mournful Kitana to not have to deal with his shit. Are there any openings for characters like CO Sonya who are basically only melee?

 

[Poser Paul]

So I come to the conclusion that ub plays similary to pre patch jax, I'm open to All thoughts so let me have it

 

[Dankster Morgan]

So I think that Cryomancer is overall a better variation with a cleaner matchup chart than Unbreakable, but I think that Unbreakable is more useful as a compliment to Grandmaster. The type of character that Cryomancer would do well against is the type of character that Grandmaster would outright rape. The type of character Grandmaster would have trouble with (Takeda, D'Vorah, Ermac, Sonya, Predator) would run straight through Cryomancer imo but I can see Unbreakable doing better vs these characters than either of the other two variations. I'm not saying UB beats these characters but I think it has more to work with vs those specific characters. I actually think UB might be good in the Sub mirror its self and maybe a few of Grandmaster's 5-5s.

 

[neveradestroyer]

Cryomancer Sub had a niche as an easy heavyhitter before the patch. Now he's the weird guy Unbreakable used to be. They swiched places. Unbreakable become more stable as a variation, and Cryomancer become unstable because the damage nerf, change of his optimal string into a regular one in exchange of a command grab (execution nerf), variation string nerf. This Made him worse than Unbreakable in my opinion. Sub Zero role in this game was to be the easy execution man, and Cryomancer broke that trait in that variation.

 

[Tanno]

Unbreakable, without a doubt, is useful against rushdown opponents, like DF Liu, A-List JC, Wrestler Jax, Warrior Predator, etc. He could be, also, a good counter-pick against Tremor, like @YUZU_RZA said. I don't know UB very well, because I have gotten used to GM, so I'm in no position to know his strong elements against the other characters. I only know that his strongest elements are his Parry and Aura.

If Aura was buffed a bit with certain fixes, he could be the strongest defense in MK. I think that this Aura is similar to Tremor's Crystal Armor to the extend.

Cryomancer would be the best variation to choose, if only they had made his Polar Puncture a bit easy with its inputs. I can't handle well with difficult inputs, like Liu Kang's Bicycle Kick (FBF4), Erron Black's Grab Down (DBF2), and Kung Lao's Fist Fury (112124) (correct me if I'm wrong on the inputs, please), so I'm not keen to practice them with the DS4. I should try the hitbox on them.

 

[Nu-Skoool]

I don't see how Predator runs through both GM and Cryo. It's two completely different playstyles. I even go as far as to say Cryo does better against Predator than GM by a good margin.

 

[ILuvFightGames]

I don't see how Predator runs through both GM and Cryo. It's two completely different playstyles. I even go as far as to say Cryo does better against Predator than GM by a good margin.

I've always thought predator was hell against GM, because of his discs I believe that takes away subz clone strategy many times.

 

[Tanno]

I've always thought predator was hell against GM, because of his discs I believe that takes away subz clone strategy many times.

Predator's variation with his disks along with his ground traps as DOT attacks are a real pain for sure. His ground traps are served as Ice Klone in a sense, which makes the running and the sliding useless. The only way to disable the traps is to block low. As for the disks, figure it out...

 

[Poser Paul]

Holy Hell is HQT a Pain in the Ass! Playing Vs him quite a bit lately those damn lasers...GM did fine once in the corner but it was a slaughter fest trying to get him there SMH. My Unbreakable footsies and neutral still isn't strong enough yet to counter pick but yeah can see the frustration with this match up as GM.

I also played a good Impostor the same night THAT was tough with both GM and Unbreakble. That Teleport into Overhead into a D4 into Hell Sparks low profiled almost all my special moves. I labbed it last night as Shinnok with GM as the AI to see what would work against it and he could beat everything with the Teleport, Overhead, D4 except a EX Slide.

Anyway, I'm going to try the match up again and see what normals work but I was borderline jailed. Any others here played a good Impostor as GM or UB?

Can you backdash after the teleport?

 

[Poser Paul]

Don't know have to try it next time, I was doing stupid shit as I literally got disoriented by Impostor's speed, it seems simple enough yet it didn't come to mind last night.

Yeah, happens to me all the time as well

 

[Poser Paul]

Labbed Back Dash, it works! Now to put it into an actual match with a good follow up.

Backdash then try 123 ex Aura

 

[Rolling_Toaster]

so i was in the lab and i found some really good new tech!!!

so my first tech i found was theres a mix up with 11. after 11 the opponent will block low because they think youre gonna do 114 but instead you can do 11 b2. really good tech there. try it. also if youre in cryo you can do 11 hammer.

the next tech is kinda old i just never posted it. s2 clone on block is a really good mind game for the opponent in grandmaster. because the opponent will try to poke you but then you do a clone and there poke gets frozen! great mind game.

next tech is another otg clone. idk if its known about but you can otg clone off 24. godly tech. thats all thanks for reading

@Tanno @Dankster Morgan @Rolling_Toaster @flappysamyhamy @zoofs @RagingRicans @crosshair271 @Revenant Zero @Tom Brady @Madzin @rubmytaco @RedGuitarsRock @all sub mains

 

[Rolling_Toaster]

@garbagehustla101