General/Other - Sub-Zero Sub-Zero General Discussion

[Jeffrey Wolf]

For the most part, what I expected for Unbreakable. He didn't get a few things I would have really liked (I'm looking at you DOT damage), but the lack of armored launchers means that Parry (i.e. Barrier) is super good now and that's not even taking into consideration it's faster recovery, or the fact that he retained the Icy Slide launcher, which has two hits of armor?? The GM match up just got even better for Unbreakable. I'm sad that F12 is gone as a frame trap now though. Looks like I gotta get on my F4~Aura game.

Btw, anyone know what time the patch will likely drop?

 

[Jeffrey Wolf]

Yeah...the more I think about it...the only character in the game with a 1 bar armored (2 hits!) launcher that travels 3/4 of the screen, under projectiles, is low, and starts up in 9 frames? He just needs Aura. So Aura is being valued as much as a bar of meter. Damn, that's good. Heck, I wonder if down the road they'll even nerf it.

Plus, Parry in the neutral is almost like an armored launcher...

I'm starting to see what Pimpinjim is saying.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Tomorrow is going to be hella exciting for Unbreakable players. We now have a safe options via ice burst being -5 and with further pushback. They also FINALLY fixed the parry's recovery.


Also Sonicfox is maining Cryomancer so expect some dirty tech in the future. B)

 

[Jeffrey Wolf]

I'm definitely excited. Burst was basically a safe ender anyway, but it's nice that it's actually safe now, lol.

As for Sonic, really? I wouldn't have thought Cryo was his cup of tea. I'll be very interested to see how Cryo shakes out though. At first I was worried that they had simultaneously buffed and then nerfed to oblivion his F12 footsie string, but since it can be cancelled into Burst, it's not too bad, even if there's a gap. Though, you're going to have to be on point to either Burst for safety or continue the string for the launch. Seems like an unnecessary nerf to me.

Speaking of launchers though, Cryo will have probably the highest damaging 1 bar launching game move in the game with EN Hammer. Sub had good armor before, but now? Wow.

 

[ChaosTheory]

These are slight buffs for this variation. I would love to see the Aura have less recovery and activity, so that it could connect fine with the next inputs.

I don't get it. Parry recovery going from 33 to 8 isn't a big deal? Especially considering the overall change in philosophy of the game.

 

[Jeffrey Wolf]

It's a big deal.

 

[Tender]

Correct me if I'm wrong please, so no armor on ex burst means we gatta take jump in 50/50s still with the same characters that we had trouble with from the beginning. Especially on last hit wins situation, with no meter, we have to leave it to luck again? If the opponent times it right, ub has no wake up move besides the 2 hit armor obvious and full combo punishable slide which still needs meter that we can't build easily since only ex burst is safe, and or u have aura on, and if we succeed that's about 20% damage in to set up, which was still the same as before. Two hits of armor does that mean no more normal armor break for us? I.e. Melina scorpion etc. Parry recovery is 20 frames and ex parry is 10 frames, which both versions are still full combo punishable by Lao Melina etc. So....did ub got buffed or did he got Nerfed? I'm so confused by this patch...

 

[Tanno]

Correct me if I'm wrong please, so no armor on ex burst means we gatta take jump in 50/50s still with the same characters that we had trouble with from the beginning. If the opponent times it right, ub has no wake up move besides the 2 hit armor obvious and full combo punishable slide which still needs meter that we can't build easily since only ex burst is safe, and or u have aura on, and if we succeed that's about 20% damage in to set up, which was still the same as before. Two hits of armor does that mean no more normal armor break for us? I.e. Melina scorpion etc. Parry recovery is 20 frames and ex parry is 10 frames, which both versions are still full combo punishable by Lao Melina etc. So....did ub got buffed or did he got Nerfed? I'm so confused by this patch...

UB got slightly buffed, but we have yet to get the patch to see the full picture. I intend to test things out to check what works and what no longer works. And I think that universally Sub Zero got buffed a lot, but nerfed to a point.

Damn, I'll have to test things out with my 4 remaining fingers for the kombos.

 

[Tender]

I'm definitely testing d2 for sure with the new frames. I hope we now have priority unlike before. I understand the concept, ub means blocking more but it's too easy to get open up in this game that with no aa, chip or not u will still lose. Slide is great for ub to aa but I often find that it doesn't reverse freeze them even if u heard the hit sound from it and u lose a bar. Worst case ur playing a zoner and ur full screen again.

 

[Tanno]

I'm definitely testing d2 for sure with the new frames. I hope we now have priority unlike before. I understand the concept, ub means blocking more but it's too easy to get open up in this game that with no aa, chip or not u will still lose. Slide is great for ub to aa but I often find that it doesn't reverse freeze them even if u heard the hit sound from it and u lose a bar. Worst case ur playing a zoner and ur full screen again.

The worst case scenario is to face a skydrop/grounded out zoners, like Quan Chi, Shinnok, and Konjurer Alien. You won't have a problem with a straightforward zoner, like Kotal, Sub Zero, Tanya, Liu Kang, etc, because Barrier of Frost can block BOTH version (normal and EX) projectiles.

The real problem would be the sky drop attacks, meaning anything that comes in from the air.

UB is the defensive, in philosophy-wise, type, while the Cryo is the offensive, and GM is the balanced.

I happened to use UB against Predator, and I froze his charged stab.

BTW, I can't differentiate the sounds due of hearing a cochliac, so I depend myself on my eyes. Thanks to this I have high reflexes since my athletic years.

 

[loogie]

The worst case scenario is to face a skydrop/grounded out zoners, like Quan Chi, Shinnok, and Konjurer Alien. You won't have a problem with a straightforward zoner, like Kotal, Sub Zero, Tanya, Liu Kang, etc, because Barrier of Frost can block BOTH version (normal and EX) projectiles.

The real problem would be the sky drop attacks, meaning anything that comes in from the air.

UB is the defensive, in philosophy-wise, type, while the Cryo is the offensive, and GM is the balanced.

I happened to use UB against Predator, and I froze his charged stab.

BTW, I can't differentiate the sounds due of hearing a cochliac, so I depend myself on my eyes. Thanks to this I have high reflexes since my athletic years.

Kotal is a zoner?

 

[Tanno]

Kotal is a zoner?

Yep, a straightforward one. His normal sword throw hits even the middle area.

 

[DarksydeDash]

So do refreeze combos on females work for gm now?

 

[Tanno]

So do refreeze combos on females work for gm now?

what do you mean by this? I'm testing things here. Check the other thread. No longer glitches. You can connect B2 on frozen YOLO roll of Mileena, and D2 on frozen standable females from behind.

They patched the Ice Klone, and now Alien can no longer sweep his tail at our IK.

 

[DarksydeDash]

what do you mean by this? I'm testing things here. Check the other thread. No longer glitches. You can connect B2 on frozen YOLO roll of Mileena, and D2 on frozen standable females from behind.

They patched the Ice Klone, and now Alien can no longer sweep his tail at our IK.

Basically I figured it out myself. Off any shatter combo or b2, you can either do d1, f12 OR D1, B3xxclone. GM now gets clone setups on females for less damage.

 

[Tanno]

Basically I figured it out myself. Off any shatter combo or b2, you can either do d1, f12 OR D1, B3xxclone. GM now gets clone setups on females for less damage.

I see. OK. This is a hard combo that I can't do temporarily due of my bandaged thumb. Now I tested D' Vorah's footsies. Her back legs do pass through IK. We have a serious problem here.

 

[Revenant Zero]

female hitboxes problems still occur with my bnb combos.
two b2s in a refreeze combo are unviable or sketchy so hopefully I can find one that works. F42 into ice clone after B2 242 no longer works I believe. B2 D1s works but needs to be labbed for accuracy.

One that I found that works consistently uses a bar:
B2 242 1 11 EX IK njp jip F12 for 32% damage.

 

[Tanno]

Alright, just downloaded it this morning labbed a few things for GM.

BnB B2,B2,D1,B12Clone is easier but still will whiff if too high. The F12 must now be timed carefully by delaying to connect.

So far I've lost my other BnB: B2,B2,F42Clone. Can someone whose used this confirm this?

Shatters are still in with no scaling, tried both B2 one and 12 low starter where the D1,B12 Clone one from a low starter is easier thanks to faster D1.

JIP into B12 ice ball seems fine too. F33 into Ice Clone in the corner still works.

Haven't tried VS females yet but will lab more tonight got to get to work.

Tried the 123xxIK, but IK whiffs. Only 11, B12 and F42 do work for IK. Maybe it's a bit slow, or it could have reached its limit of juggling preventing the IK to come out. I would love to test it for myself, but I can't for the time being.

 

[RM Ree]

Can anyone confirm if b12 xx ex clone is still stance specific?

EDIT: Nvm, they didn't fix it -.- @colt PAULO, THE ICE CLONE

 

[STK]

idk im hitting b2x2 d1 11 IC on females easy now. i think that faster d1 made the transition between d1 to 11 perfect for the combo. off shatters too. d1 being faster seem to be a blessing in disguise

 

[Tanno]

idk im hitting b2x2 d1 11 IC on females easy now. i think that faster d1 made the transition between d1 to 11 perfect for the combo. off shatters too. d1 being faster seem to be a blessing in disguise

You can add one more D1 or 1. I tested it and it can reach 4-5 more 1s before B12xxIK. It was an easy kombo for my hand to test out.

 

[STK]

You can add one more D1 or 1. I tested it and it can reach 4-5 more 1s before B12xxIK. It was an easy kombo for my hand to test out.

yea. forget a command throw. a quicker d1 was his best change. lol

 

[Tweedy]

Dash forward, jump back 1 after ending combos with frost hammer is legit in the corner. It's not as good as Jin's, some females and other characters can duck it. Still pretty good.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I think Grandmaster rapes Cage now. His pressure in SD and A-List got obliterated so he is much less intimidating if he gets in and he is so free in the corner. Eclipse kick is a high so we can spam D4 on f12 knockdown and if it hits- mix, we r protected by the klone, if he blocks it- still probably mix lol, if he wakes up- eclipse kick whiffs full combo punish.

 

[RVB]

I think Grandmaster rapes Cage now. His pressure in SD and A-List got obliterated so he is much less intimidating if he gets in and he is so free in the corner. Eclipse kick is a high so we can spam D4 on f12 knockdown and if it hits- mix, we r protected by the klone, if he blocks it- still probably mix lol, if he wakes up- eclipse kick whiffs full combo punish.

@M.D. will be glad to hear this ... I know I am