General/Other - Johnny Cage Johnny Cage General Discussion Thread

[Asodimazze]

I don't count stunt double mains who play a-list now You lot are gods.

My point still holds true.

If we are talking the instance where cage has a full stamina bar and lands a f24 whats best damage to land after and make sure we get full chip.

Then you should be doing F2 SKRC F3 SKRC Jp2 F4 F24 12 F3xxNp.

This is 31% and full stamina before the nutpunch even hits. Then add you chip after.

A-list has so much room for more damage and we settle for day 1 shit still.

We gotta level up bros!

Even the best player makes manual mistakes sometimes and pushing execution too far is not a wise choice imho...consistency is what matters most

 

[ismael4790]

Even the best player makes manual mistakes sometimes and pushing execution too far is not a wise choice imho...consistency is what matters most

Absolutely agree with this. Balance between damage and consistency is important.

 

[Zionix]

Even the best player makes manual mistakes sometimes and pushing execution too far is not a wise choice imho...consistency is what matters most

Ultimately if you can get around 10% more damage "meterless" of every overhead that lands, and it isn't 1-2 frame link then it should be a given for any competitive player.

For instance lets say you do the easy version once per round. 10% less damage to the opponent; no biggie. Twice? That's 20% damage now, that's quite a lot. Three times over the course of 2 rounds? Four? It's all adding up and could be the difference in clutch situations.

In fact F2 on block is easier to jail than F24, so it is actually in cages favour execution wise to get into the habit of F2 SKRC into F3 or 12 (which can be jp2 converted or dash cancelled into F4).

Its just being lazy at this point, its not hard; plenty of characters have tighter execution than that combo.

 

[GOOD DRAGON]

Even the best player makes manual mistakes sometimes and pushing execution too far is not a wise choice imho...consistency is what matters most

Foxy once told me - if you learn a character and you start off by learning the max damage bnb's even if they are harder to do or execution heavy then you eliminate lazy bad habit's that most other players pick up from day 1 and your muscle memory is developed on the harder more rewarding high damage combos that way they more your used to them the less it'l be an issue doing them consistently.

 

[IrishMantis]

I think I'm the one of the only Cages (that I seen) that uses his F21 D1 F21 D1 F3 EX NP bla bla as my BnB

Especially offline

 

[ismael4790]

I think I'm the one of the only Cages (that I seen) that uses his F21 D1 F21 D1 F3 EX NP bla bla as my BnB

Especially offline

I also use that one in fisti, only changing the first d1 by a standing 1, it feels easier for me.

 

[Zionix]

I think I'm the one of the only Cages (that I seen) that uses his F21 D1 F21 D1 F3 EX NP bla bla as my BnB

Especially offline

I've been trying it here and there, the trick is to do the second F24 as fast as possible after the initial D1, its alot easier to do once i learned that.

Again though SD main converting to a-list; you all do WAY better combos than a-list because the old combos are rooted into their muscle memory.

If i see on stream 12(DC) 113NP for like 19% and then spending a bar to launch for 32% it makes my eyes bleed.

 

[Asodimazze]

Foxy once told me - if you learn a character and you start off by learning the max damage bnb's even if they are harder to do or execution heavy then you eliminate lazy bad habit's that most other players pick up from day 1 and your muscle memory is developed on the harder more rewarding high damage combos that way they more your used to them the less it'l be an issue doing them consistently.

A-List max execution stuff is not practical. I don't think any player will be able to land all of his truly hard links everytime he tries in tournament.

Raising the execution to TAS levels of perfection is just not human, you are bound to miss some links once in a while. I can understand going for starter into skrc,j2 etc...vs big characters, but why risk it vs female hitboxes? Who is the player capable of doing 333SKRC, f24 (jail on block, combo on hit) 100% of the time in match? Who can jail f24skrc into f3 without missing the combo on hit once in a while?

We are not machines

 

[IrishMantis]

I also use that one in fisti, only changing the first d1 by a standing 1, it feels easier for me.

I can see why because if you hit the S1 you know 100% you going to hit the following D1

But doing D1 comes out a frames faster and hits lower

I've actually got to the point I can tell I didn't hit the D1 correctly so I just switch it to an easier combo on the fly

So for most cases in either getting optimised or normal BnB and rarely dropping the combo at all

The only times I really go for this combo with Alist if I got no stamina or after 113xxskrc for 37%

With SD I use all the time

 

[Zionix]

A-List max execution stuff is not practical. I don't think any player will be able to land all of his truly hard links everytime he tries in tournament.

Raising the execution to TAS levels of perfection is just not human, you are bound to miss some links once in a while. I can understand going for starter into skrc,j2 etc...vs big characters, but why risk it vs female hitboxes? Who is the player capable of doing 333SKRC, f24 (jail on block, combo on hit) 100% of the time in match? Who can jail f24skrc into f3 without missing the combo on hit once in a while?

We are not machines

Woah there cowboy.

We've gone from a 5 frame link BnB which is extremely practical, to you rattling off 1 frame links.

Nobody is asking for F2 into F2 jails here. Don't make it that way.

The female hitbox thing is totally invalid aswell, its just a timing change on the jump in, you can have muscle memory for both.

 

[IrishMantis]

I've been trying it here and there, the trick is to do the second F24 as fast as possible after the initial D1, its alot easier to do once i learned that.

Again though SD main converting to a-list; you all do WAY better combos than a-list because the old combos are rooted into their muscle memory.

Haha yeah me and @Dja_Homies akways joke about stuff like that

Also another thing I don't do with Alist Or at least try my best not to do

Is skrc F24 on hit!

On paper you do not need too

1.its hit confirmable
2.bugger drop rate if you cancel
3.it scales the bitch up

Obviously as Aso said were Hunan so sometimes I cancel on hit by accident, but I got most of times I don't

 

[Zionix]

Haha yeah me and @Dja_Homies akways joke about stuff like that

Also another thing I don't do with Alist Or at least try my best not to do

Is skrc F24 on hit!

On paper you do not need too

1.its hit confirmable
2.bugger drop rate if you cancel
3.it scales the bitch up

Obviously as Aso said were Hunan so sometimes I cancel on hit by accident, but I got most of times I don't

Now thats next level, teaching myself not to input the cancel straight away would take TIME.

I never even though about it. Gonna start that today.

This is the shit the forum needs, pushing for excellence not shying away from it.

 

[ismael4790]

I can see why because if you hit the S1 you know 100% you going to hit the following D1

But doing D1 comes out a frames faster and hits lower

I've actually got to the point I can tell I didn't hit the D1 correctly so I just switch it to an easier combo on the fly

So for most cases in either getting optimised or normal BnB and rarely dropping the combo at all

The only times I really go for this combo with Alist if I got no stamina or after 113xxskrc for 37%

With SD I use all the time

Yeah, depending on when the d1 hits one can know if the rest is going to work or not.

It's probably the most optimal combo for damage and is a necessity in fisticuffs.

However, for those moments when one has to make 100% sure to land a combo (or in laggy games) I use some variations of slight less damage just in case.

 

[Zionix]

Yeah, dependeing on when the d1 hits one can know if the rest is going to work or not.

It's probably the most optimal combo for damage and is a necessity in fisticuffs.

However, for those moments when one has to make 100% sure to land a combo (or in laggy games) I use some variations of slight less damage just in case.

I have to resort to dropping the last F3 and just doing D1 exNP if the timing is out

 

[IrishMantis]

Yeah, dependeing on when the d1 hits one can know if the rest is going o work or not.

It's probably the most optimal combo for damage and is a necessity in fisticuffs.

However, for those moments when one has to make 100% sure to land a combo (or in laggy games) I use some variations of slight less damage just in case.

Of course

Usually all the stuff I say or preach or whatever is usually judging by super good connections

Even if I'm in a position that opponent only had 33% health left I would use the easiest version of the combo

So yeah that's true

 

[ismael4790]

I have to resort to dropping the last F3 and just doing D1 exNP if the timing is out

Is that combo f24 d1 f24 d1 f3 nutpunch even possible in A-List?

It's long since I don't touch the variation. It surprises me because A-List nutpunch is a bit slower even when hold...

 

[IrishMantis]

Is that combo f24 d1 f24 d1 f3 nutpunch even possible in A-List?

It's long since I don't touch the variation. It surprises me because A-List nutpunch is a bit slower even when hold...

Only Ex NP

 

[IrishMantis]

Also another thing about Alist

"Hay who the fuck you think you are? Coming in from SD telling us how to play Alist, fuck off back to SD you Prick"

Haha that's what imagine everybody is thinking haha

But in anyway the thing is, I don't think Alist players really appreciate or are aware of how good we have got it with being able to SKRC 113 on block and even confirm it on hit, this is a bigger to me than the F3 meta

Feels like I can turn a one way road(SD and Fisticuffs 113) to a dead end ! It's so fucking safisfying

 

[ismael4790]

Also another thing about Alist

"Hay who the fuck you think you are? Coming in from SD telling us how to play Alist, fuck off back to SD you Prick"

Haha that's what imagine everybody is thinking haha

But in anyway the thing is, I don't think Alist players really appreciate it aware of how good we have got it with being to cancel 113 on block and even confirm it on hit, this is a bigger to me than the F3 meta

Feels like I can turn a one way road to a dead end is so fucking safisfying

As fisticuffs player I agree with you, being able to make safe and hitconfirm 113 is HUGE.

In the scale of utility of 113, alist is the best. Second is SD, that can make followups plus on block with clones, but cant avoid the gap. Last is fistitrash, where any followup besides exforceball or exkick is unsafe, and of course gapped.

This is the main reason why I think he needs exfistbump, to make his 113 game better.

 

[Killer Xinok]

Would a 7 frame jab make jhonny OP? Cause I feel that's what he needs

 

[IrishMantis]

As fisticuffs player I agree with you, being able to make safe and hitconfirm 113 is HUGE.

In the scale of utility of 113, alist is the best. Second is SD, that can make followups plus on block with clones, but cant avoid the gap. Last is fistitrash, where any followup besides exforceball or exkick is unsafe, and of course gapped.

This is the main reason why I think he needs exfistbump, to make his 113 game better.

You know since a long time I was always pushing on Fisticuffs having an Ex Buff

But I never even thought of 113 ex buff block armour attempt, that be sweet and even give himself something over SD

Good thinking

 

[ismael4790]

You know since a long time I was always pushing on Fisticuffs having an Ex Buff

But I never even thought of 113 ex buff block armour attempt, that be sweet and even give himself something over SD

Good thinking

Yeah, the idea of exfistbump, besides better chip and startup should be to make 113 exfistbump safe on block (gapped, ok) and allow to combo on hit (for example 113 exfist f3 nutpunch, or 113 exfist f24...)

Even with this, it still would be the worst use of 113 across the 3 variations because it forces to use a bar. But it wont be the trash that it is now.

 

[Zionix]

Yeah, the idea of exfistbump, besides better chip and startup should be to make 113 exfistbump safe on block (gapped, ok) and allow to combo on hit (for example 113 exfist f3 nutpunch, or 113 exfist f24...)

Even with this, it still would be the worst use of 113 across the 3 variations because it forces to use a bar. But it wont be the trash that it is now.

Fisticuffs would as good as the other two. Fisticuffs has the better forceballs and F34 being -3. Covers up the weaknesses of the other specs.

Both are the disadvantages to the other specs. Also forceballs with increased chip are pretty good.

Lets not forget Fisti has the best brutal for cage, so that counts for a lot.

 

[ismael4790]

No he would as good as the other two. Fisticuffs has the better forceballs and F34 being -3.

Both are the disadvantages to the other specs. Also forceballs with increased chip are pretty good.

I mean worse in the use of 113.
A list can safe hitconfirm meterless and avoid the gap, sd can plus hitconfirm meterless but cant avoid the gap, and fisticuffs could safe hitconfirm without avoiding the gap AND spending meter.

They are clearly three different levels.

Best brutal by far xD

 

[IrishMantis]

Yeah, the idea of exfistbump, besides better chip and startup should be to make 113 exfistbump safe on block (gapped, ok) and allow to combo on hit (for example 113 exfist f3 nutpunch, or 113 exfist f24...)

Even with this, it still would be the worst use of 113 across the 3 variations because it forces to use a bar. But it wont be the trash that it is now.

I mean worse in the use of 113.
A list can safe hitconfirm meterless and avoid the gap, sd can plus hitconfirm meterless but cant avoid the gap, and fisticuffs could safe hitconfirm without avoiding the gap AND spending meter.

They are clearly three different levels.

i would assume Ex buff would make you avoid the gap