Video Is Jumping too Good? Anti-Airs + Jumps

[ismael4790]

I don't know, I've been teching throws much more consistently since the new patch. It's a combination of looking for it and having good reactions.

That's it. Those characters that have to rely more on throws got hurted by xl change on tech window.

 

[Pan1cMode]

That's it. Those characters that have to rely more on throws got hurted by xl change on tech window.

The characters that have to rely on throws still have the "50/50" option of a throw. The solution isn't to just give everyone a command grab.

And throws are most dangerous when mixed in with stagger pressure. As a high tech main, throws are vitally important in my mixup game.

 

[xenogorgeous]

could be the reversal mechanic in MKX something to support help against the block stun the jumps cause in this game ? I think reversals in MKX seems pretty underrated, no ?

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

I would like to point out how retarded my jump attacks are, they got godlike range so I can jump back and continue the combo, it has no hurt box so you can't anti air it if you tried, and blocking the jump attack leads to a mind game, yeah lashers air whips should probably get hurt boxes but until they happens I'll just continue to abuse the fuck out of them.

 

[ismael4790]

The characters that have to rely on throws still have the "50/50" option of a throw. The solution isn't to just give everyone a command grab.

And throws are most dangerous when mixed in with stagger pressure. As a high tech main, throws are vitally important in my mixup game.

Yeah, as Kenshi main I have to rely on throws as big part of the offense.

The problem comes when your staggers are pretty much limited too xD

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

That's exactly the idea, BUT the untechable throw wouldn't be a special, so no tick throws or use as reversal.

When I think about, for example Brawler Cassie, that has a command grab that does 13%, ticks off many things including all hits of a three hits string and a jump kick, has a 18% damage armored version, AND moreover, she has access to 50/50s that can be safe when using meter... and she is not considered a top tier character, I can't see why characters with bad offense tools getting some sort of weak command grab (which is what untechable throw is) is a bad idea.

Yeah.... no.

You're trying to give characters who lack mix up... a mix up as if that's what it takes to make them good. The characters who don't have mix ups are designed to be functional without the mixups being handed to them.

If you want to give them a mix up, you're just feeding into the meta everyone wants to get rid of

 

[ismael4790]

Yeah.... no.

You're trying to give characters who lack mix up... a mix up as if that's what it takes to make them good. The characters who don't have mix ups are designed to be functional without the mixups being handed to them.

If you want to give them a mix up, you're just feeding into the meta everyone wants to get rid of

The meta in essence sadly is not going to change, it's delusional to think that.

 

[Rude]

Throws are fine, holy shit.

 

[Eddy Wang]

This thread is so full of retinal aids, i'm out. lol.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

The meta in essence sadly is not going to change, it's delusional to think that.

W the patch coming and how much flak NRS receives u never know


Not to be a dick but, throwing is a universal mechanic across all characters and giving what u suggest to characters who "lack options" sadly isn't going to happen and it's delusional to think that lol

 

[ismael4790]

W the patch coming and how much flak NRS receives u never know


Not to be a dick but, throwing is a universal mechanic across all characters and giving what u suggest to characters who "lack options" sadly isn't going to happen and it's delusional to think that lol

Well, all characters have un uppercut, an njp...but all of them have different properties according to the design of that character.

I don't see a reason why there couldn't be different types of throws also. Not saying it's gonna happen, just saying it has logic.

 

[Gisbert]

I think the problem is not only the lack of AA, the problem is that you can jump without spacing properly and hit anyway... for example Scorpion can jump and hit with 2 even when you think he is not in the right space to hit you, sometimes the hit is a weird crossup, the same for other characters. Also the reward for a jump in is huge compared to the reward for aa properly.

 

[TyCarter35]

That's it. Those characters that have to rely more on throws got hurted by xl change on tech window.

Not really for me since throws hv always been a big part for me playing Ninjutsu especially way before Lord Paulo gave him the gift of f2/f2 takedown mixup. It's still a guessing game half the time when it comes to teching

 

[Osagri]

Well, all characters have un uppercut, an njp...but all of them have different properties according to the design of that character.

I don't see a reason why there couldn't be different types of throws also. Not saying it's gonna happen, just saying it has logic.

Also throws have different properties. Correct me if I'm wrong but kenshi has one of the most +throw in game. F/T leaves opponent right in front of him and some throws send's them almost full screen.

 

[ismael4790]

Also throws have different properties. Correct me if I'm wrong but kenshi has one of the most +throw in game. F/T leaves opponent right in front of him and some throws send's them almost full screen.

Yes, positioning and frames after .There are cases where the positioning after the throw goes against the purpose of the character though, as Cage throw, that sends the opponent too far. Kenshi is the opposite case.

I was refering to my previous comments though, where I said that characters that have a very bad offense and lack of mixups could get some kind of boosted throws like a pseudo command grab.

Not really for me since throws hv always been a big part for me playing Ninjutsu especially way before Lord Paulo gave him the gift of f2/f2 takedown mixup. It's still a guessing game half the time when it comes to teching

Throw is super viable with Ninjutsu because the fear comes from the range of his attacks, yes.

 

[Wigy]

For me, the jump ins are an issue because its a very specific timing depending on the range they do it at. Really hard to react and time appropriately when you already have crazy run ins etc.

And then they do a jk and your timing is irrelevant

 

[REO]

The only point I'd sort of oppose in the video is that jump kicks have always beaten anti-airs for the most part even since MK9. I thought that has always been NRS' point: jump punches lead into full combos but can be anti-aired, but jump kicks are hard to anti-air but don't lead into anything.

That's very misleading. Jump kicks in this game are overall harder to anti-air than they were in MK9. MKX jump kicks have better hitboxes, more active frames, tighter hurtboxes, and they have extra perks like being completely neutral on block when done instantly from the ground and tagging a blocking opponent. Combine that with MKX forward momentum movement and explosive meta and have you have a game that is harder for you to counter jump ins often.

MK9 had better designed anti-airs for the most part. Same thing with Injustice. Yeah, jump kicks were a bit harder to anti-air in MK9 at certain angles and spacing, but to say anti-airing Jump Kicks in this game is just like MK9 is false. Overall MKX jump kicks > MK9 jump kicks.

I think the jumping problem is just a bi-product of mobility being too strong. It's not that anti-airs aren't good, it's just too hard to react to them since there's usually a run just before they come out and you have a split second to decide which AA to use and it changes the closer they run to you which causes a panic and hesitation. Throw in air teleports, air fireballs and dive kicks and you have pure chaos.

It definitely is. But it also doesn't help that there are jump attacks in this game with ridiculous attributes like double digit active frames, extended hitboxes, jailing into almost anything on block regardless of distance or spacing, extremely low jump start up frames, jump kicks never being negative on block but neutral at worst, etc. etc. There's so many perks with the jumps in this game.

But you're right that if I think if they put these jumps into MK9 or Injustice they would be easier to deal with. MKX issue is the game is crazy town but provides very few "crazy town" forms of anti-airs. A lot of other games that have crazy explosive metas usually either have crazy defensive options like (including anti-airs of some kind).

 

[Braindead]

That's very misleading. Jump kicks in this game are overall harder to anti-air than they were in MK9. MKX jump kicks have better hitboxes, more active frames, tighter hurtboxes, and they have extra perks like being completely neutral on block when done instantly from the ground and tagging a blocking opponent. Combine that with MKX forward momentum movement and explosive meta and have you have a game that is harder for you to counter jump ins often.

MK9 had better designed anti-airs for the most part. Same thing with Injustice. Yeah, jump kicks were a bit harder to anti-air in MK9 at certain angles and spacing, but to say anti-airing Jump Kicks in this game is just like MK9 is false. Overall MKX jump kicks > MK9 jump kicks.

You know way better than I do it's not even close, so I will simply take your word for it. No argument from me.

 

[Raiderhorn]

I apologize for not reading the entire thread yet... But I'm curious to know and while on the subject of the strength of jumping and jump attacks, does anyone like the ability to instant air-jump punch? Not a fast neutral jump punch, but how some characters are able to instant jump punch after applying pressure on block. Notable characters of this are Bo' Rai Cho and Alien. Does anyone think that should be in the game?

EDIT: @YOMI REO I would like your input please

 

[REO]

EDIT: @YOMI REO I would like your input please

I think things like these in the above video are absolutely ridiculous and silly looking. Doing an INSTANT AIR forward jump kick or jump punch should leave you very minus on block. OR at least make it so when they block the attack, the person who instant jumps keeps propelling forward in the air so they can easily be punished on the way down for making such an explosive read. There's no reason why INSTANT forward jump punches should jail into things on block or why INSTANT forward jump kicks should be neutral on block.

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

Please, let me punish her consistently. lol

Also, best part of this video, is REO putting people on blast by naming them "Training Mode Experts" haha TME for short.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Hey, everyone. So since this has been a bit of a hot topic this month and with the most recent debates increasing on Skype, Twitter, TYM, and other areas regarding jumping in MKX, I decided to make a video about it sharing my thoughts since there's a patch hitting and something worth discussing. Just my opinion on jumping in this game.

Id say lets Discuss what Characters have obnoxious JIP's and which ones Need better anti airs.



and whoever you guys want to add.

Lets talk about that some have great ones but when you put that up against lets say Alien JIP2 or Kotal JIP1 they become not so great?


And like @YOMI REO said: A good Anti air is designed to have an upward hitbox that is invulnerable to the JIP or JIK, that it is seperated from the characters hurtbox.


Bow with that said what characters need there own specific one, and i agree with him, id rather see unique ones than a bland D2 for whole cast, and since this is a puniosh heavy game, D2 is good but not optimal for all. Who needs it and what should it be?


Edit and should instant jump forward punches jail into other shit, should we have to respect that, or should there be a buffer so ones that are up longer in the air like a crossover is plus2 and an instant jip or forward jip is negative on the way up?


@Apex Kano , @Tanno , @CrazyFingers , @Bruno-NeoSpace , @ismael4790

 

[Eddy Wang]

When you're so focused reading the thread, and then...

 

[Darth-Nero]

I really dislike this sort of 'evil corporation' angle people are taking with NRS, like they somehow balance everything around making a good buck.
Legitimate question: If you're a casual player do you honestly give a flying fuck about whether the back of the box says that jumping is strong in this game? How often does a casual player go 'This game is cool and all but I won't buy it yet because I don't know if jump-ins are really powerful'. No, they don't give a shit. They want to see a good-looking game with characters they're excited to play. They'll worry about something as specific as whether jumping is good when they've already bought the game.

/endrant

I hate to break it to you but it's indeed a business, Getting more customers and making a good buck is what business is about. That doesn't necessarily make NRS an evil corporate. it's just business.

I also never said that jump-ins is the USP of the game, Am only focusing on jump-ins because that's the thread's topic, You're getting tunnel visioned here. Casuals wont buy a fighting game if they know they have no chance of winning unless they invest a lot of time and effort learning characters and matchups. They want to pick up the game and play from the get go.

That's why all those skill free concepts where added: Simple to use/easy to pickup characters (scorpion, subzero, kungjin..,etc), strong jumping, 50/50 (so anyone can pickup the game and go against anyone and still have a 50% chance of winning), pay to win aka DLC (regardless if they get nerfed later since you already payed)...,etc

I believe NRS is guilty of adding those concepts and mechanics to cater to casuals, But reasons being this or that are debatable and irrelevant. The main point is that they did add some dump crap in this game that's giving the rest of us a headache and not allowing us to fully enjoy the game.

 

[Darth-Nero]

If NRS designed move properties based on how well casual players can invest in the game then Full Auto Jacqui never would've been allowed to live at launch window.

Sorry but shit conspiracy theory is shit.

Implying Scorpion is hard to use
Implying Scorpion is not the most popular pick since day 1
Implying Scorpion cares about jacqui spammers

Jacqui spammers were kept in check by an online system that's basically a ragequit fest. They want to play the game and have fun too so between ragequiters and getting mopped by skilled players there is no much playing nor fun. That's why Full Auto Jacqui was never a problem.

There is no conspiracy here, The game rewards bad fundamentals otherwise you wouldn't see many threads like this one.