General/Other - Mileena My Balance Suggestions

[nathancorsini]

Don't touch Maaaaleeena.

She needs it.

 

[ando1184]

why?

Because it's 2 OH's from 1 attack. There has been numerous cases where I've seen someone block the 1st oh but then get hit by the rest. Yeh it's the player's fault but in a flustered state where you're trying to fuzzy guard her mixups, it just becomes yet another thing that's an unnecessary worry. If it was only 1 OH and then 1 low, I don't think players will get it feel as cheated during their blocks. That's just my pov on it anyway. I mean visually it kinda made no sense to be 3 hitting anyway.

 

[ZeroEffect]

Because it's 2 OH's from 1 attack. There has been numerous cases where I've seen someone block the 1st oh but then get hit by the rest. Yeh it's the player's fault but in a flustered state where you're trying to fuzzy guard her mixups, it just becomes yet another thing that's an unnecessary worry. If it was only 1 OH and then 1 low, I don't think players will get it feel as cheated during their blocks. That's just my pov on it anyway. I mean visually it kinda made no sense to be 3 hitting anyway.

But there's no low to block. Roll is a mid.
I've personally never had an issue blocking this if I read the first OH correctly. The only argument I could see is that the move having multiple hits breaks armor. But then it's not like she's the only character that can do that.

 

[Crimea]

You all should be happy if they nerf Piercing damage or b12. But you still want more Even Tanya player complains about jump in

 

[Meep8345]

Nerf the bitch into the ground pls

But good list of changes but I think b1 and b12 should have as much whiff recovery as takeda's whips she needs to die if she ever whiffs that stupid normal. And reduce her meter build.

 

[TheGoldenJew]

Ex roll hitting OH twice is not an issue..git gud

 

[STRYKIE]

Because it's 2 OH's from 1 attack. There has been numerous cases where I've seen someone block the 1st oh but then get hit by the rest. Yeh it's the player's fault but in a flustered state where you're trying to fuzzy guard her mixups, it just becomes yet another thing that's an unnecessary worry.

Better make low minion a mid boyz.

 

[JerzeyReign]

I feel Piercing does WAY TOO MUCH & nullifies the point of the variation system.

Which is true but it seems every character in this game has that one variation that gives the impression of nullification of the variation system.

 

[leoj89]

It's funny that you made this thread cause in my bones I feel a hard piercing nerf approaching.

Should go a head and make that switch to ravenous. I agree with all your ravenous suggestion's.

I haven't decided on piercing or ethereal just yet.

 

[Akromaniac27]

All it sounds like is saltiness that Piercing is THE variation and Ravenous isn't. All the buff suggestions to Ravenous are basically the nerfs you want for Piercing. Doesn't make any senae if we're "attempting" to be reasonable.

You say take away a restand which HAS a gap in the corner but lets ignore numerous other free restands in the game. Talk about a 19f mid that armor breaks shouldn't be +2, but lets keep 11 jabs that do the same thing, are plus, go into meterless 50/50s. Lets keep Demo grenade oki, Swarm Puddle oki, Kunai oki, Clone oki, JC nutpunch restands into actual free gapless pressure, and so forth.

I think the main issue here is that you never grasped what kind of character she was and this is all salty backlash. For the record, Piercing isn't defensive, but it can play as such, much like numerous offensive variations in the game. Regardless of how nerfed she gets, you still won't grasp her playstyle because it isn't one that you play. She supposedly has everything that she needs and you still didn't accomplish what foxy has. This is in no way a diss, but its irritating seeing how much of an influence you had on the character but couldn't go far enough and when someone finally does, NERF NERF NERF.

 

[dennycascade]

Maybe change either the insane hitbox or insane recover on straight sai blast. That one special alone makes some matchups 7-3

 

[Akromaniac27]

Is she in need of touches, yes, much like 99% of the roster is. What you and everyone else fail to realize, is that her core game in Piercing revolves around mids, staggers and baiting. Its not MKX's guess my 50/50 and if you guess right, guess again. Is it a great tool B12, of course, but you paint it out to be SOOO good that she's miraculously going to open characters up off of her low profiling mids instead of free 50/50s the rest of the roster have.

Her unwarranted buffs as you seem to put it, were fixes. I guess air sais having so much recovery and being inactive the first frames they traveled was cool. I guess f4 being -32 was also alright. Mind you, that string while getting fixed also received a nerf. I guess low sais being -24 before and only +2 on hit was also alright. Oh and she was gods gift too when it came to the UNIVERSAL poke buff as well, cuz like you know, ONLY Mileena got faster pokes right? So Ravenous being near stupid at this point because it has absolutely no risk to take between specials and normals is also just cool? Lets ignore the fact that Ravenous can surpass Piercing easily with minor nerfs to Piercing, thus leaving us in the same exact situation we're in?

-Sai recovery should be reverted back to pre patch, but frame data should stay the same

-Overall damage nerf (preferably everyone), but with her, 5% less overall is justifiable

Like I mentioned above, you REALLY fail to see how her game revolves around baits and mids. So take away mids because you can't deal with the post block game? But leave in meterless, safe 50/50s?

Good mids don't make a character a tier of their own, you of all people should know that. Unsafe, meter dependent 50/50s ALSO isn't a trademark of a godly character. A character that is fundamentally sound is a top tier character, yes, but in what world does that make them SO OP? She is top, she has very few MUs where she genuinely struggles, but that doesn't make her broke. Its like everyone suddenly forgot the difference between top tier and broke, mixups and 50/50s.

 

[coconutshrimp]

Is she in need of touches, yes, much like 99% of the roster is. What you and everyone else fail to realize, is that her core game in Piercing revolves around mids, staggers and baiting. Its not MKX's guess my 50/50 and if you guess right, guess again. Is it a great tool B12, of course, but you paint it out to be SOOO good that she's miraculously going to open characters up off of her low profiling mids instead of free 50/50s the rest of the roster have.

Her unwarranted buffs as you seem to put it, were fixes. I guess air sais having so much recovery and being inactive the first frames they traveled was cool. I guess f4 being -32 was also alright. Mind you, that string while getting fixed also received a nerf. I guess low sais being -24 before and only +2 on hit was also alright. Oh and she was gods gift too when it came to the UNIVERSAL poke buff as well, cuz like you know, ONLY Mileena got faster pokes right? So Ravenous being near stupid at this point because it has absolutely no risk to take between specials and normals is also just cool? Lets ignore the fact that Ravenous can surpass Piercing easily with minor nerfs to Piercing, thus leaving us in the same exact situation we're in?

-Sai recovery should be reverted back to pre patch, but frame data should stay the same

-Overall damage nerf (preferably everyone), but with her, 5% less overall is justifiable

Like I mentioned above, you REALLY fail to see how her game revolves around baits and mids. So take away mids because you can't deal with the post block game? But leave in meterless, safe 50/50s?

How many characters have safe 50/50s or 50/50s that lead into more 50/50s should you guess right?

Kano
Sonya
Alien
Reptile (Kinda)
D'vorah
Ferra/Torr

Those are the only characters that come to mind when both 50/50 options are safe or have 50/50s that lead to more 50/50s. Everyone has either one option is unsafe or both. Not many characters really have these "Free 50/50s and Guess right guess again mofo" that you say. Unless of course I'm missing a few. BTW 50/50s with gaps count as unsafe since armor and backdash or in some cases parry.

 

[Akromaniac27]

How many characters have safe 50/50s or 50/50s that lead into more 50/50s should you guess right?

Kano
Sonya
Alien
Reptile (Kinda)
D'vorah
Ferra/Torr

Those are the only characters that come to mind when both 50/50 options are safe or have 50/50s that lead to more 50/50s. Everyone has either one option is unsafe or both. Not many characters really have these "Free 50/50s and Guess right guess again mofo" that you say. Unless of course I'm missing a few. BTW 50/50s with gaps count as unsafe since armor and backdash or in some cases parry.

Free as in there is no resource for it, and/or it is safe or plus. No resource means you are ALWAYS on the lookout for it because as it suggests, they don't have to rely on meter or stamina to get it going, and one option is 99% of the time safe anyways, so you're guessing between the safe 50/50 or the unsafe one, both which still have you guessing at any given point. As for gaps, nearly everyone has them, or they have methods to patch them up OR just not make them in the first place and bait.

Scorpion (his is more on the PLUS stagger, leading to a 50/50)
Takeda
Cassie
Alien
Jacqui
Kung Jin
BRC
Jax
Sonya
Shinnok
Kano
Erron Black
Ermac
Kotal (War God)
Reptile
F/T
Dvorah
Sub (corner ice clone; being punished by like 3 characters only IF even that doesn't suddenly make it unviable versus the other 30 characters)
Raiden
Quan Chi
Smoke/Cyber Sub

And the other DLC im not too familiar with how good theirs are. Tanyas is always there but always unsafe.

 

[coconutshrimp]

Free as in there is no resource for it, and/or it is safe or plus. No resource means you are ALWAYS on the lookout for it because as it suggests, they don't have to rely on meter or stamina to get it going, and one option is 99% of the time safe anyways, so you're guessing between the safe 50/50 or the unsafe one, both which still have you guessing at any given point. As for gaps, nearly everyone has them, or they have methods to patch them up OR just not make them in the first place and bait.

Scorpion (his is more on the PLUS stagger, leading to a 50/50)
Takeda
Cassie
Jacqui
Kung Jin
BRC
Jax
Sonya
Shinnok
Kano
Erron Black
Ermac
Kotal (War God)
Reptile
F/T
Dvorah
Raiden
Quan Chi

And the other DLC im not too familiar with how good theis are. Tanyas is always there but always unsafe.

I forgot about Takeda and Jacqui lol

I forgot that some of these can make the 50/50 safe, I was just thinking more of 50/50s that lead to a full combo being safe in which only a select few fit the bill but that's not really fair to make it based on those type of 50/50s

But Kotal's 50/50s are not safe, a bit tricky to punish but defs not safe.

A couple of these characters need a resource to keep theirs safe so again not really free, but these resources aren't really that hard for some of these to build like meter for Quan, Shinnok, and Kano or Stamina for D'vorah so I guess they are kinda free. Just needed a bit of a clarification that's all

 

[coconutshrimp]

Now with Will's suggestions, I agree with them. Not much more to say I don't think these will make her unviable, it'll just even out her variations so Piercing doesn't cover MOSTLY EVERYTHING

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Agreed, but I'd also increase the damage scaling and hitbox to her roll. I think she would be completely fine with that and the stuff you sugested.

Also she can't cancel her teleport into sai on block.

 

[Damaja325]

for piercing, i feel the only changes she could use are:

-more whiff recovery on b1, b12
-no meter build on low sai (this way ethereal isn't affected since it's such a meter guzzler)
-damage scaling on b21,2+4 and maybe b12,1+3

for ravenous, i think her low pounce should become a true command throw so she has a safe, low reward mix-up off of F23 and F12. this is more of a quality of life buff, but maybe give high pounce armor if EX'd.

this is a crazy idea i had, but what if EX roll becomes mids instead of overheads? currently, mileena has alot of midgames, especially in piercing with her b12 meta. her tools allow her to not be pressured into using a yolo 50/50 to open u up. ethereal doesn't need EX roll at all since she has the EX fade. and this kinda circles back to making ravenous's high pounce an armor move so she has something to reverse with but at the same time doesn't grant high damage. just a little food for thought

 

[SaltFace NS]

Everytime I post an opinion on balance changes that will benefit not only other characters but the other under used variations you always attack me claiming that I'm salty Ravenous isn't better.

NIGGA IDGAF which variant is better or worse but you know damn well in it's current state Piercing is too strong & needs to be touched & the suggestions I offered keep the character's core intact while making her more fair in terms of balance. I'm sorry but that crap is getting on my nerves. Look at the game as a whole & not just as a Piercing player.

 

[Akromaniac27]

for piercing, i feel the only changes she could use are:

-more whiff recovery on b1, b12
-no meter build on low sai (this way ethereal isn't affected since it's such a meter guzzler)
-damage scaling on b21,2+4 and maybe b12,1+3

for ravenous, i think her low pounce should become a true command throw so she has a safe, low reward mix-up off of F23 and F12. this is more of a quality of life buff, but maybe give high pounce armor if EX'd.

this is a crazy idea i had, but what if EX roll becomes mids instead of overheads? currently, mileena has alot of midgames, especially in piercing with her b12 meta. her tools allow her to not be pressured into using a yolo 50/50 to open u up. ethereal doesn't need EX roll at all since she has the EX fade. and this kinda circles back to making ravenous's high pounce an armor move so she has something to reverse with but at the same time doesn't grant high damage. just a little food for thought

The problem with all that, as well as whats flying over everyones head, is these suggestions are asking to give Ravenous more and more 50/50s from its already HELLA safe, meterless play. Its asking to remove mids or lessen their use, to instead pave way for 50/50s. Am I the only one that sees how this doesn't solve anything? Mindgames/mixups aren't 50/50s...............................they're good and similar in the guessing aspect but guessing between when to press a button as opposed to guessing how to even blcok are two entirely different tools. The latter being better in this game since nearly every go to 50/50 is still safe afterwards

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Free as in there is no resource for it, and/or it is safe or plus. No resource means you are ALWAYS on the lookout for it because as it suggests, they don't have to rely on meter or stamina to get it going, and one option is 99% of the time safe anyways, so you're guessing between the safe 50/50 or the unsafe one, both which still have you guessing at any given point. As for gaps, nearly everyone has them, or they have methods to patch them up OR just not make them in the first place and bait.

Scorpion (his is more on the PLUS stagger, leading to a 50/50)
Takeda
Cassie
Alien
Jacqui
Kung Jin
BRC
Jax
Sonya
Shinnok
Kano
Erron Black
Ermac
Kotal (War God)
Reptile
F/T
Dvorah
Sub (corner ice clone; being punished by like 3 characters only IF even that doesn't suddenly make it unviable versus the other 30 characters)
Raiden
Quan Chi
Smoke/Cyber Sub

And the other DLC im not too familiar with how good theirs are. Tanyas is always there but always unsafe.

What is scorpion's 50/50?

 

[Akromaniac27]

Everytime I post an opinion on balance changes that will benefit not only other characters but the other under used variations you always attack me claiming that I'm salty Ravenous isn't better.

NIGGA IDGAF which variant is better or worse but you know damn well in it's current state Piercing is too strong & needs to be touched & the suggestions I offered keep the character's core intact while making her more fair in terms of balance. I'm sorry but that crap is getting on my nerves. Look at the game as a whole & not just as a Piercing player.

So remove restands and give it to Ravenous. BUFF the current restands Ravenous currently has for MORE advantage. Nerf Piercing damage, but keep Ravenous' meterless 37-50% bnbs. Maintain its already braindead, SAFE, offense and STILL up the health given back? Cmon now, I thought you were better than this. You are salty, dont put that bullshit out saying you're not.

b12 was not only more active pre patch, but it was plus and you STILL couldn't get anything done. All of a sudden the move is less active, negative on block but safe and its godlike? Don't get pissy at the game because you don't click with the character. So all these "unwarranted buffs" that Ravenous ALSO received now calls for even more?

 

[Baconlord]

I honestly don't think b12 should be touched outside of the recovery. it was fine pre patch but now it's a problem because her pokes and sais complement it so well. a damage nerf and more recovery on sais and b12. and as much as it pains me to say this maybe, just maybe town down the low profiling a little, not too much, but just a little

 

[Ragnarök Tyr]

Without specifically targeting anyone here. The response of.

Don't touch X because there is worse things in the game.

Is one of the reasons why the game is the way it is. Adjust X-Y-Z universally, or at least in instances when X >> Y & Z.

 

[Akromaniac27]

Without specifically targeting anyone here. The response of.

Don't touch X because there is worse things in the game.

Is one of the reasons why the game is the way it is. Adjust X-Y-Z universally, or at least in instances when X >> Y & Z.

Despite our differences in the past, thats the issue with the game in a nutshell. Everyone has stupidly good tools, but without them, they can't contend nearly as well with the rest of the roster. And at the current state of the game, nearly every character has just ONE variation that covers everything they possibly need. A handful of unfavorable MUs, and they can easily switch it to their favor should they even need to.