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Why do we let EVO treat us like this?

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
So let's be real here. The whole reason this all happened is because SFV got 5000 entrants at EVO and they put all resources into running that tournament, shafting everyone else. Once you added in that the finals was on ESPN, EVERYTHING had to cater to that. Hence finals got moved to 8AM. This seems unfair, but I wouldn't give up on EVO just yet.

I didn't think SFV being on ESPN would be that big a deal, but it was. I was watching in my living room when my family walked by and wondered what it is. After watching a match they all sat down and watched the whole 2+ hours of it getting just as hype as me, which was pretty incredible. EVO has over 151,000 tweets(hashtags?) on twitter, which means at least that many people were watching on a Sunday night.

I know what your thinking, "But Zoidberg, EVO only cares about Capcom games, what does this do for OUR scene?" We'll have to wait until the ratings come out to know for sure, but that amount of exposure could be a huge boost to the FGC and get a LOT more people playing FGs. And what happens if they don't like SF but just so happen to love DC comics? Or played MK growing up and learn about the tournament scene for it? Is it that crazy to think that if a bunch of new players migrated to the FGC that some of them might just make their way to NRS games, growing OUR scene?

"But Zoidberg, even if it does give us new players, we still won't ever be on ESPN and get that exposure. EVO doesn't care enough to put us on there". It's true that SFV will always take precedent over MKX for stream/tv time, but whose to say they only show SFV next year? Maybe next year they try showing two game's finals, and the next they show 3 games etc. It may be a few years down the line but there is a chance that an NRS game sees air time on national tv and gets that exposure. Could ESL/CEO/KiT also be aired eventually? Maybe, but why throw away a tournament that already has been aired in the first place?

The funny thing is people have made these same threads about tournaments like CEO, Final Round, Combo Breaker, SCR and the like. And in most of those cases, the TOs made adjustments the next year to make the tournament even better and all was forgiven. Why not give EVO that chance?

I feel like i'm tired and just rambling but I'll end with this. If you really want that kind of exposure and more attention at tournaments like EVO, get those entrants up. If more finals start getting aired and we get entrants to rival SFV or surpass Melee, there's a 99% chance they put us right before SFV. But to do that we have to get more people(like me :oops:) to get out to these tournaments.
That's just the bottom line.
Its not difficult, ZB. As EVO, you cater a little to each audience - and especially to each group of competitors. You don't make competitive commentators sit out to commentate, then not let them commentate. You hire a few interns that know the scene a little and it then becomes their job to make sure the competitors at least have a place to sit, have an ongoing idea of when they're up again, and know when and where its OK for them to go get a drink or a bite. We're not salty about getting put behind SFV, but we got put behind Smash too. Smash, really? That's not even a real fighting game!

Call Foxy salty, but I would be salty too. The early start time coupled with traveling from Great Britain and the poor accommodations at EVO led him to drop his BnB combo again and again - and from someone that follows the scene, I can tell you that was an anomaly. He never drops that combo and dropping it cost him both losses. He had both matches won if he had just converted. I know other players traveled and dealt with the conditions better, but him missing a combo that he never misses was undeniable to anyone who follows him. Why make the trip to be a shell of your former self? We, the fans, would all be like where's Foxy if he wasn't there though. Better accommodations should be expected for players traveling such a long way to be a part of our entertainment experience. EVO should be appreciative of their efforts.
 
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Baconlord

Proud follower of the church of Cetrion
Its not difficult, ZB. As EVO, you cater a little to each audience - and especially to each group of competitors. You don't make competitive commentators sit out to commentate, then not let them commentate. You hire a few interns that know the scene a little and make sure the players at least have a place to sit, have an ongoing idea of when they're up again, and know when and where its OK for them to go get a drink or a bite. We're not salty about getting put behind SFV, but we got put behind Smash too. Smash, really? That's not even a real fighting game!
can you stop using every evo thread just to shit on smash
 
So let's be real here. The whole reason this all happened is because SFV got 5000 entrants at EVO and they put all resources into running that tournament, shafting everyone else. Once you added in that the finals was on ESPN, EVERYTHING had to cater to that. Hence finals got moved to 8AM. This seems unfair, but I wouldn't give up on EVO just yet.

I didn't think SFV being on ESPN would be that big a deal, but it was. I was watching in my living room when my family walked by and wondered what it is. After watching a match they all sat down and watched the whole 2+ hours of it getting just as hype as me, which was pretty incredible. EVO has over 151,000 tweets(hashtags?) on twitter, which means at least that many people were watching on a Sunday night.

I know what your thinking, "But Zoidberg, EVO only cares about Capcom games, what does this do for OUR scene?" We'll have to wait until the ratings come out to know for sure, but that amount of exposure could be a huge boost to the FGC and get a LOT more people playing FGs. And what happens if they don't like SF but just so happen to love DC comics? Or played MK growing up and learn about the tournament scene for it? Is it that crazy to think that if a bunch of new players migrated to the FGC that some of them might just make their way to NRS games, growing OUR scene?

"But Zoidberg, even if it does give us new players, we still won't ever be on ESPN and get that exposure. EVO doesn't care enough to put us on there". It's true that SFV will always take precedent over MKX for stream/tv time, but whose to say they only show SFV next year? Maybe next year they try showing two game's finals, and the next they show 3 games etc. It may be a few years down the line but there is a chance that an NRS game sees air time on national tv and gets that exposure. Could ESL/CEO/KiT also be aired eventually? Maybe, but why throw away a tournament that already has been aired in the first place?

The funny thing is people have made these same threads about tournaments like CEO, Final Round, Combo Breaker, SCR and the like. And in most of those cases, the TOs made adjustments the next year to make the tournament even better and all was forgiven. Why not give EVO that chance?

I feel like i'm tired and just rambling but I'll end with this. If you really want that kind of exposure and more attention at tournaments like EVO, get those entrants up. If more finals start getting aired and we get entrants to rival SFV or surpass Melee, there's a 99% chance they put us right before SFV. But to do that we have to get more people(like me :oops:) to get out to these tournaments.
That's just the bottom line.
I agree with this but let's be serious here MK will never be on TV because of the gore. Well maybe just not something as big as ESPN since it was on the CW for Chasing The Cup. But hey maybe injustice 2 could possibly be there one day if we get our entrants up.
 

KIllaByte

PSN: playakid700. Local name: BFGC MonkeyBizness
From a viewer stand point the mains issues where how long everything took. Although we where only about 30 minutes late on steam that wasn't too bad. But the stream ending at 2:30am is horrible. I can't even imagine how little sleep top 8 competition got. The top 8 commentary was okay but not great. We really need our community members to commentate. You could tell Dave and Aris didn't care that much about the game cause they have no attachment to the game or the community. Imagine how hype K and M or KP would of gotten when Tekken master Reset. Or how sad K and M would of got when He lost. Its a shame cause i really wanted one of those 3 doing top 8. We get told to sign up for commentary to support our scene then don't even get to commentate top 8 wtf.
Also i get tired hearing dave on commentary for so many games. I like him but hearing him on MK, KI, SF5, Pokken gets old really fast.

I would like add even chef doing some matches was nice. He seemed very happy to be doing the matches he did. His excitement was very nice.
EVO commentators are not ushered into a seat. They choose the games they commentate.
Why are you making the assumption that David doesn't care.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Premium Supporter
Seating is a legitimate concern, but they design the tournament so you only have to be there for the 2 hours of your pool. If you wanna stand around to watch a stream for 8 hours, that's on you. Bring a lawn chair maybe?

I feel your pain though, judging 3 pools in a row hurt so bad.

Commentary is such a frivolous complaint. It's not related to the player at the event experience at all.

Time slots?? Really? Being on Sunday at the arena at all is a big deal. Someone has to be first, and this year MK had the lowest turnout, so it was MK. EVO was giving different communities a chance to shine on finals day in the arena. Otherwise it would have been GG, Pokken, Melee, SM4SH, and then SFV.
Commentary isnt a frivolous complaint when we have 2 members of the community who sacrificed their tournament entry to commentate, and are known as the NRS commentators, fly all the way across the planet, for what? They made a needless sacrifice.

What if you dont lose in pools? Its not gonna be a 2 hour experience, you win your pool, get like 30mins till the time you're supposed to be playing next, which involves more waiting etc etc. It wasn't a matter of standing around to watch a stream, it was a matter of standing around because things werent moving smoothly.

The time slots argument makes sense, again back to the point about over running on the sunday, there was nowhere near enough time between the final match of top 16-8, and the top 8 itself. So yes, it does matter. Its not about it being first, its about it being so early AND finishing so late the day before.
 

kantboy-2

Ripper
And none those you listed are as good of commentators as David or Aris.
That's your opinion. Many here disagree. We want NRS players who also happen to be good commentators to get their time to shine on commentary as well. Aris has Tekken and his silly stream. UD has SF pretty much locked if he wanted to.


EVO commentators are not ushered into a seat. They choose the games they commentate.
Why are you making the assumption that David doesn't care.
It's obvious he cares. He's also smart enough to know that NRS' next game will get mainstream $$$ and marketing behind it, so doing that stuff now will pay off next year.
 

Colest

Mid-Tier 'Mancer Main
That's your opinion. Many here disagree. We want NRS players who also happen to be good commentators to get their time to shine on commentary as well. Aris has Tekken and his silly stream. UD has SF pretty much locked if he wanted to
Okay well you're opinion is uninformed. You can disagree with well founded statements all you'd like.
 

Euphoric

MKX
Premium Supporter
Commentary isnt a frivolous complaint when we have 2 members of the community who sacrificed their tournament entry to commentate, and are known as the NRS commentators, fly all the way across the planet, for what? They made a needless sacrifice.

What if you dont lose in pools? Its not gonna be a 2 hour experience, you win your pool, get like 30mins till the time you're supposed to be playing next, which involves more waiting etc etc. It wasn't a matter of standing around to watch a stream, it was a matter of standing around because things werent moving smoothly.

The time slots argument makes sense, again back to the point about over running on the sunday, there was nowhere near enough time between the final match of top 16-8, and the top 8 itself. So yes, it does matter. Its not about it being first, its about it being so early AND finishing so late the day before.
Ultradavid was given the option to CHOOSE which game he wanted to commentate the most, and he on his own will chose MKX...
 

John Grizzly

The axe that clears the forest
Premium Supporter
I'm late to the party here, but I wanted to chime in about the top 8 commentary, as well. I really love UltraDavid and Aris on commentary (especially Aris), but it felt really wrong not having Ketchup and Mustard handling top 8. Didn't they not compete so they could do commentary? Those two guys have unmatched passion for the game and have shined during ESL and everything else they've worked since MKX launched. Aris doesn't even play MKX. I doubt David is putting much time into the game, either.

Again, I truly enjoyed Aris and UltraDavid on commentary, but it didn't feel right not having the twins there instead.

For example - when Sonic picked Unstoppable Jason, Aris and David were blown away. Neither had any idea that Sonic has been playing Jason up for months now and has played him in tournament before. Ketchup and Mustard would know that shit.

Also....UltraDavid and Aris didn't say "oh my days" even once. =(
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Why isn't Aris one of our commentators? Because he plays another game more? He's been commentating MKX from the start, he's fought to give us legitimacy many times while doing it, and he definitely knows and plays the game. My only disappointment is that he doesn't commentate more he's great




That being said, K&M should have been our commentators, if only because they were told they would. I don't like dumpstering Aris tho, he's definitely one ours too
 

Son ov Timett

Bork, No Jin
Kind of hard to believe someone would choose to commentate MK over being on ESPN2 in front of hundreds of thousands. Guess if it is tweeted, it must be so.

If the choice was genuine, pretty bad move for his own ESports career. :confused:


As for the chairs, an obvious cost cutting measure to gnab the Mandalay Bay venue. Renting at least a 1000 chairs to spare the backs of tourney goers on Fri/Sat is a pretty pence I'm sure.
 

OnlineSkunk

Premium
Premium Supporter
Ultra David knows a lot about MK and Aris is good at SF, UD may not know every character MU but he definitely knows the game and he's like one of the few SF commentators who likes MKX and show interest compared to others. I get foxy points though, worst part was the not having much time to sleep before the finals.
 
I'm not upset anymore about NRS folks viewing me as an outsider. I know that if 5 years of playing, finding tech for, & commentating NRS games didn't change minds, many of whom hadn't even started playing these games till later, that 6 years wouldn't either. I don't see myself quitting MK or ignoring Injustice 2, so, get used to it! But that's on you guys who feel that way to get over, not on me to worry about how to change.

I recall making some errors in my commentary, like I think I said I saw Tekken Master at ESL instead of Dreamhack? As always I'll review it later to see what I missed or could have done better but that's all that jumps out to me now.

Anyway clearly Evo made some mistakes in layout & schedule, I talked with some of them about it and they recognize it too. They know what to fix for next time. Running a 10,000 person 9 game tournament in a new venue in 2 days presents some pretty crazy challenges. And you may think SFV is priotitized, but that scene has some of the same complaints you guys do.
 

Quantus

Rain for MK12 Kombat Pack 3
We also need to recognize that SF as a scene has been putting in work a LOT longer than we have, and we don't have half the drawing power (in terms of entrants, or audience) as they do.

And guess what, NRS has had top 8 on sunday for 6 years in a fucking row.
But we don't get no respeck.
 

Professor Oak

Are you a boy or girl?
Just from a viewers standpoint, best of 3 and pools all the way to top 8 on one day was trash. Charlie and Frank would leave that trash in the sewer.

I felt like an ass convincing my gf to watch almost 10 hours of mk and then waking up early to finish it annoyed her and me tbh.

How many 3-2 comebacks have happened at past tournaments? This tournament was the most stacked and I'm aware Sonic probably would have taken it regardless, but I don't think first to 3 is an honest depiction of the best player in this game.

MKX seemed rushed, glossed over, unimportant, and just trash.

Trash trash trash.
 
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Quantus

Rain for MK12 Kombat Pack 3
This thread is really a microcosm of the problems in this community as a whole. We, as a whole, are much quicker and kick and scream when we aren't happy than we are to actually try to improve our situation.

Nobody was ever taken seriously because of how loudly they cried "No one takes me seriously!"
 
Reactions: GAV

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
It's weird that of all foxy's issues, the one most people care about is commentators. The absolute least important.
How is it not important that they promised two competitors that they would be commentating if they choose to do so instead of playing, but then left them in the lurch once they arrived, not being able to either commentate OR play, having wasted their travel money entirely? You think issues like a few players having to stand are more hard done by than that, hell fuckin no, this was by far the scummiest shit they pulled, nobody was on the worse receiving end than them two. The only reason I could see anyone describing this particular issue as the least important is if they are using it as a euphemism for "potentially affected me personally the least".

If the choice was genuine, pretty bad move for his own ESports career. :confused:
Bad move because they got screwed on it, but as far as eSports goes, more exposure as commentators will likely take you much further.

I'm not upset anymore about NRS folks viewing me as an outsider. I know that if 5 years of playing, finding tech for, & commentating NRS games didn't change minds, many of whom hadn't even started playing these games till later, that 6 years wouldn't either. I don't see myself quitting MK or ignoring Injustice 2, so, get used to it! But that's on you guys who feel that way to get over, not on me to worry about how to change.
Well said. You're not an outsider just because you play other games as well, people are just being immature with that. Mistakes were made by Evo, but that is not on your head, and I think most of us appreciate the genuine effort you put into it for us, even if it hadn't been said much!
 

trufenix

bye felicia
How is it not important that they promised two competitors that they would be commentating if they choose to do so instead of playing, but then left them in the lurch once they arrived, not being able to either commentate OR play, having wasted their travel money entirely? You think issues like a few players having to stand are more hard done by than that, hell fuckin no, this was by far the scummiest shit they pulled, nobody was on the worse receiving end than them two. The only reason I could see anyone describing this particular issue as the least important is if they are using it as a euphemism for "potentially affected me personally the least".
Given that K&M DID commentate and that MKX Top 8 did have functional commentary (even if not optimal), I believe this issue can take a backseat to players not having chairs, tourney participants not being able to watch streamed matches or a fucking midnight top 32 conclusion before an 8am top 8 start. Like, that isn't even 8 hours of sleep for your competitors. Hang the goddamned commentary, lets run a solid tournament first.
 

haketh

Noob
UD is a good commentator, but the whole point of EVO is to show mainstream viewers what goes on in the scene, part of that is having scene commentators. "But, they (KP, K & M, any other NRS player/commentator) lack experience, blah, blah..." Well, shouldn't they be ones on stream so they get the experience? When all fgc scenes trade commentators for Top 8 and GF, then some people (myself included) won't cry foul. The man consistently does SF web/pod cast. Fgc will associate him with SF first.
he constantly talks about NRS stuff & KI on the podcast

But for real Saturday pools running so late then 8AM Finals at another venue an hour away is massively unacceptable.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Premium Supporter
Ultradavid was given the option to CHOOSE which game he wanted to commentate the most, and he on his own will chose MKX...
Then why couldn't the twins get the same option, or any other NRS commentators? That's not what I'd call fair.

Like I said before, I respect UDs commentary, I'm not even saying it was bad, I'm just saying we have the absolute top tier commentators for our game within our own scene. The twins and KP are 100% dedicated to MK, with UD being spread out amongst multiple games, it makes sense for him to not have ALL of the info at hand about every single competitor or scenario.

Besides, the commentary isn't really the main issue here.
 
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G4S Claude VonStroke

@MK_ClaudeVS on twitter
So I guess i'm alone here... But my favorite commentator team is UD and Aris lol. Aris is super entertaining and UD is a great commentator. It's like the perfect play by play guy matched with color commentator. No disrespect to KP or anyone else because we also have some great commentators too. But I have no problems at all with these guys because I enjoyed it.

Best NRS commentators imo are

Brady, KP, Twins, Bit and Pig. I like REO too when he commentates.