General/Other - Smoke XL Robo Smoke Discussion Thread

[boba_buster]

Even if u could armor threw the oh it would be a really hard read cuz the b3 is 15 frames , I really doubt ppl would risk getting put back in the vortex huh?

 

[THTB]

I think he will still be fine. The damage nerf wasn't justified though. Neither was taking adv off his ex smoke bomb (which I barely used anyways)

EX bomb nerf was just to get rid of the jailing from 1, d1, and f1. Not really massive, tbh.

I need to test it against Laos spin but I'm sure we're ok , the slower b3 is actually a buff cuz now ppl can't fuzzy guard , armored moves armor starts up after the first frame right? That's probly why I couldn't interupt with reptiles. So if I'm right the 17 frame advantage is really 18 frames when u count the 1 frame befor armor starts? Does that sound correct?

Yeah, the b3 nerf kinda buffed Triborg in a certain area lol. The nerf to his 21 and 3 hit advantage isn't too big a deal, given they still have to block the b3 for sure, even with the slowing of it.

 

[MajinBerserker]

Still curious about this "drop damage," which increases damage by 2.
Does this imply using Spear in combos before Smoke Bomb, or just completing a combo with a knock down after the Spear. Vortex combos do more damage by finishing them anyways. I guess I'm just not understanding the phrasing in the notes correctly.
One combo where I'd end my vortex with F43-Tele (instead of s3) did 30% before this patch, now does 28%. So the scaling is there.
Anyone else have a better idea? I thought I understood earlier, from a previous thread entry.

 

[Mind Flex]

Still curious about this "drop damage," which increases damage by 2.
Does this imply using Spear in combos before Smoke Bomb, or just completing a combo with a knock down after the Spear. Vortex combos do more damage by finishing them anyways. I guess I'm just not understanding the phrasing in the notes correctly.
One combo where I'd end my vortex with F43-Tele (instead of s3) did 30% before this patch, now does 28%. So the scaling is there.
Anyone else have a better idea? I thought I understood earlier, from a previous thread entry.

Think of it like a buff to using smoke bomb and letting him hit the ground vs following up with a combo. Considering smoke bomb's primary use is a combo starter, it's an overall nerf to smoke bomb'so utility.

 

[Mind Flex]

Think of it like a buff to using smoke bomb and letting him hit the ground vs following up with a combo. Considering smoke bomb's primary use is a combo starter, it's an overall nerf to smoke bomb'so utility.

After some testing I don't think I uderstand it either. Unless the scaling is just different on moves now

 

[Scott The Scot]

Smoke bomb does 2 hits, one when it hits the opponent and launches them and it also does "drop damage" which is when the opponent falls and hits the ground. The damage done in a combo after bomb (so the first hit) has increased scaling. The drop damage from Smoke bomb has been increased though.

In other words, if you use Smoke Bomb - followup attacks scale more, therefore less damage. If you let them drop and hit the floor rather than do the combo, it does more damage than before.

 

[boba_buster]

Smoke bomb does 2 hits, one when it hits the opponent and launches them and it also does "drop damage" which is when the opponent falls and hits the ground. The damage done in a combo after bomb (so the first hit) has increased scaling. The drop damage from Smoke bomb has been increased though.

In other words, if you use Smoke Bomb - followup attacks scale more, therefore less damage. If you let them drop and hit the floor rather than do the combo, it does more damage than before.

It's so fucking stupid

 

[Name v.5.0]

Smoke is potentially the worst character in the game now no armor no fast teleport no vortex no damage!!! no zoning barely any mix ups do i need to mention more

Kappa?

He ain't bad. I do really well with him in fact. Go play Bartitsu so you can get a sense of what bad really is.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Something is wrong

21 is "+17" on hit. B1 is "18f". I have the cpu to jump. I hit with 21 and my b1 is connecting clean afterwards. They can't even start to jump.


Edit: jump straight up can't avoid the b1 but jump forward does. Weird

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

Something is wrong

21 is "+17" on hit. B1 is "18f". I have the cpu to jump. I hit with 21 and my b1 is connecting clean afterwards. They can't even start to jump.


Edit: jump straight up can't avoid the b1 but jump forward does. Weird

The best way to test is by mashing backdash instead of jumping

 

[XHitmanReborn24]

in 5 min of testing D2 is 8f startup used to 7f. Also cant bnb midsecreen into Teleport ender.teleport seems slower.

 

[Matix218]

in 5 min of testing D2 is 8f startup used to 7f. Also cant bnb midsecreen into Teleport ender.teleport seems slower.

Are you sure about d2? Isnt it still listed at 7f? That's sends something they would've mentioned in the patch notes.

Which combos are causing teleport to whiff? I have not experienced this. I generally use it in combo after f43 or off of f43 starter and it still sends to connect fine off of that string

 

[boba_buster]

Something is wrong

21 is "+17" on hit. B1 is "18f". I have the cpu to jump. I hit with 21 and my b1 is connecting clean afterwards. They can't even start to jump.


Edit: jump straight up can't avoid the b1 but jump forward does. Weird

So you can jump forward out of the b1?!?

 

[Name v.5.0]

So you can jump forward out of the b1?!?

Well that's not good if it's true. Especially considering B3 is 15 frames, that means you gotta be dead on with your timing or the opponent will just jump out each time. That would make the vortex 100% useless. Right?

 

[boba_buster]

Well that's not good if it's true. Especially considering B3 is 15 frames, that means you gotta be dead on with your timing or the opponent will just jump out each time. That would make the vortex 100% useless. Right?

I've had ppl armoring out already , this sux

 

[MajinBerserker]

Also cant bnb midsecreen into Teleport ender.teleport seems slower.

If I ended a vortex combo in F43-Teleport before, the Tele always whiffed on females. Males worked fine. Air Throw in place of Tele worked on females.
Ex. F13-Smoke Cloud-NJP-rc 4-B21-Spear-ji2-F43-Tele
-I'd have to sub Air Throw for Tele on all females before, as of last night- still happens. Or I'd just do 4-Tele after the ji2, instead of F43-Air Throw.

@Matix218

 

[Matix218]

I've had ppl armoring out already , this sux

If they are armoring out of the low you did it too late, the low is 15 frames and you are +17 so they cannot press a botton if your timing its right. On the overhead, assuming you are frame perfect in timing it, they would have a 1 frame window to armor out.

With the jump forward thing, that would only work against the overhead assuming you are timing the moves correctly, the low should still hit since it comes out two frames before your plus frames from the 21 run out

 

[Scott The Scot]

Something is wrong

21 is "+17" on hit. B1 is "18f". I have the cpu to jump. I hit with 21 and my b1 is connecting clean afterwards. They can't even start to jump.


Edit: jump straight up can't avoid the b1 but jump forward does. Weird

Diagonal jumps are faster then neutral jumps.

 

[MajinBerserker]

Tested backdashing out of both the (immediate inputs) B1 and B3 follow up after 21- mashing backdash. Opponent seemed to get out. :/
I only had limited time, though. So don't take my testing as definitive. F13, however, will catch backdashing out of the vortex.
Anyone else experiment with this option out yet? Or has it always been there? Still a read on the opponent's part. A lot of stuff in this game can be backdashed, but isn't.

 

[XHitmanReborn24]

Are you sure about d2? Isnt it still listed at 7f? That's sends something they would've mentioned in the patch notes.

Which combos are causing teleport to whiff? I have not experienced this. I generally use it in combo after f43 or off of f43 starter and it still sends to connect fine off of that string

d2 is now listed as 8f and teleport is whiffing doing bnb on small kharakters

b3db1 njp jip b21bf1 jipf43db4

b1exdb1 njp jip b21bf1 jipf43db4

 

[Matix218]

d2 is now listed as 8f and teleport is whiffing doing bnb on small kharakters

b3db1 njp jip b21bf1 jipf43db4

b1exdb1 njp jip b21bf1 jipf43db4

Iv think you need to use air throw ender instead of teleport on small hitbox characters, someone posted that earlier. That sucks they slowed down the d2

 

[XHitmanReborn24]

Iv think you need to use air throw ender instead of teleport on small hitbox characters, someone posted that earlier. That sucks they slowed down the d2

yes air throw looks more likely even though it throws the opponent away. teleport puts the opponent in range for b3/b1.
slower d2 makes it harder to do double uppercuts in the corner.

 

[Red Hood MKX]

Dude this character is garage now strait up i hate NRS sometimes milena johny cage takeda all have extreme dirt now we dont even have our guaranteed vortex im done smoke this is ridiculous learn how to balance a game F@$! this is pissing me of one of my favorite mk characters is trash thanks NRS i want my God dawm 30 dollars back make that 90 about to trought out this stupid game for good

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

Dude this character is garage now strait up i hate NRS sometimes milena johny cage takeda all have extreme dirt now we dont even have our guaranteed vortex im done smoke this is ridiculous learn how to balance a game F@$! this is pissing me of one of my favorite mk characters is trash thanks NRS i want my God dawm 30 dollars back make that 90 about to trought out this stupid game for good

The vortex isn't guaranteed only by theory. Allowing options for escape also gives us options to combat it.

Don't forget, the low is still guaranteed.. And there's only a 1 or 2 frame gap to reversal from with the overhead.

I don't think the hit adv was the biggest hit. I think the thing that's gonna hurt smoke the most is the damage loss.

He already wasn't a heavy hitter... Now he needs like 4 reps of vortex to kill.

 

[xKhaoTik]

So you can jump forward out of the b1?!?

Yea