By reasonable regions of the tier list do you mean worse than Jason?commando kano nerf/fix suggestions:
- parry has to be MB to parry MB attacks.
- command throw now whiffs on crouching opponents as a throw should
- gap after mb ball cancel normalized so you can no more follow up with dash njp
i could go on but i dont wanna go too hard on you kano crybabies, so this should be enough to move him down to reasonable regions of the tier list.
Alright, another revision of my Kano changes:
General:
Commando
- 112 gap removed
- Air attacks have better cross up tracking
- Slightly better vertical hitbox for NJP
- Slightly more hitstun for Black Dragon Ball cancel
- Slightly increased range on standing 3
- Standing 3 start up 8 frames
- Standing 1 start up 7 frames
- f3 start up faster by 1 frame
- Hit and block reaction changed on f33 and b3 so that several moves will not whiff after it. Such as Choke and High Knives
- Hit and block reaction changed on F4 so that several moves will not whiff after it, either that or increase the range of said moves that can whiff when cancelled from F4 (like DB1 in Cybernetic).
- Whiff recovery from mb air ball halved.
- Up Ball issues fixed (ie getting beat out by a lot of normals, variable startup with anywhere between 6 and 9(!) frames)
Cutthroat:
- 32 doing 10% damage
- MB Wood Chipper scaling LESS damage
- More hit advantage on Choke, and Strangle. +5 and +15
Cybernetic:
- Charge Up nullifies Damage over Time
- Charge Up buffs Kano's damage by 5% - 10% more than power up buff
Then I have my "fantasy buffs"
- 2% damage increase on Knives
- 2% damage increase on Enhanced Knives
- Enhanced Knives +10 on block
It only makes sense, Bone Shaper and Cyromancer can do it, so why not Kano?
- (Cybernetic): can special cancel all 1+3 enders
There, now there would FINALLY be a use for power up. If it's one thing I hate, it's useless specials.
- Power up has one point of armor on start up
- Power Up deals 10% Damage Over Time
- Charge Up has two points of armor on start up
- New Commando String: F33 1+3. 18% damage, very + on hit, -12 on block. Can be meter burned and the last hit will launch the opponent.
- 2, f4 is now a high, overhead.
I think this is my definitive wishlist for Kano.
Wow that's alot. And +10 on knives is too much for cyberAlright, another revision of my Kano changes:
General:
Commando
- 112 gap removed
- Air attacks have better cross up tracking
- Slightly better vertical hitbox for NJP
- Slightly more hitstun for Black Dragon Ball cancel
- Slightly increased range on standing 3
- Standing 3 start up 8 frames
- Standing 1 start up 7 frames
- f3 start up faster by 1 frame
- Hit and block reaction changed on f33 and b3 so that several moves will not whiff after it. Such as Choke and High Knives
- Hit and block reaction changed on F4 so that several moves will not whiff after it, either that or increase the range of said moves that can whiff when cancelled from F4 (like DB1 in Cybernetic).
- Whiff recovery from mb air ball halved.
- Up Ball issues fixed (ie getting beat out by a lot of normals, variable startup with anywhere between 6 and 9(!) frames)
Cutthroat:
- 32 doing 10% damage
- MB Wood Chipper scaling LESS damage
- More hit advantage on Choke, and Strangle. +5 and +15
Cybernetic:
- Charge Up nullifies Damage over Time
- Charge Up buffs Kano's damage by 5% - 10% more than power up buff
Then I have my "fantasy buffs"
- 2% damage increase on Knives
- 2% damage increase on Enhanced Knives
- Enhanced Knives +10 on block
It only makes sense, Bone Shaper and Cyromancer can do it, so why not Kano?
- (Cybernetic): can special cancel all 1+3 enders
There, now there would FINALLY be a use for power up. If it's one thing I hate, it's useless specials.
- Power up has one point of armor on start up
- Power Up deals 10% Damage Over Time
- Charge Up has two points of armor on start up
- New Commando String: F33 1+3. 18% damage, very + on hit, -12 on block. Can be meter burned and the last hit will launch the opponent.
- 2, f4 is now a high, overhead.
I think this is my definitive wishlist for Kano.
+14 Ex Rune into godlike Mixups of doom? Meterless uber plus Johnny cancels? "Within the compounds of MK".Wow that's alot. And +10 on knives is too much for cyber
It's only fair considering how much safe pressure some of the other characters have.Wow that's alot. And +10 on knives is too much for cyber
You dont play kano anymore. Point invalid. But kano is much more rounded than quan(although tbf he has a easier time staying on that ass) and jc a list had a ton of holes that kano can avoid by back dashing. Should they tone down quan? Sure. Jc isnt broke. Just ppl too scared to do anything+14 Ex Rune into godlike Mixups of doom? Meterless uber plus Johnny cancels? "Within the compounds of MK".
Maybe EX Knives should be +10? "Too much for Cyber".
Us Kano players are the reason why the character is doomed to mediocrity. -.-
But kano has the safest strings in the game with the least amount of gaps. Also ex knives is safe and plus pressure. In the corner and midscreen he can get guaranteed chip and plus frames with ex knives If you wanted toIt's only fair considering how much safe pressure some of the other characters have.
True I don't play him anymore, but neither do 90% of the people that played Kano back in April, May, and June. Should tell you something.You dont play kano anymore. Point invalid. But kano is much more rounded than quan(although tbf he has a easier time staying on that ass) and jc a list had a ton of holes that kano can avoid by back dashing. Should they tone down quan? Sure. Jc isnt broke. Just ppl too scared to do anything
Lolz. Finnee. Im going back into my hole. #foreverthinkingkanobetterthanheisTrue I don't play him anymore, but neither do 90% of the people that played Kano back in April, May, and June. Should tell you something.
As far as other characters pressure, it works because they have options. It's MKX at it's finest, and I'd rather see characters get brought up to speed than characters nerfed of their toolset. Plenty of strong characters with super dirt or high frames. QC has +14 Runes that give him a second attempt at a 50/50 that puts you in a super blender. Sorceror can do 30% chip damage with EX Rune and the chip spell. Characters like Liu can block pressure you with heavy plus frames into massive chip and full combo your armor attempt. Characters like D'Vorah (my new and improved main) with super plus projectiles and can also put you into unfavorable positions meterless on block forcing you to make a hard read hoping you're right or get blown up. Etc etc etc.
Then there's Cyber Kano with +5 Knives that lead to nothing lol. I mean if you think that's fine compared to what other characters are working with by all means, but if he goes untouched once again I doubt anyone new will pick up this character for the rest of the game's life. Only people that will play him in 2016 are the Last of the Mohicans. At least he'll have lack of MU knowledge on his side though. -.-
I commend you for riding with him all this time. I wish I had the strength to do the same! Lol. All I have left are my memories before I sold out.Lolz. Finnee. Im going back into my hole. #foreverthinkingkanobetterthanheis
+14 Ex Rune into godlike Mixups of doom? Meterless uber plus Johnny cancels? "Within the compounds of MK".
Maybe EX Knives should be +10? "Too much for Cyber".
Us Kano players are the reason why the character is doomed to mediocrity. -.-
Stop stop stop STOP STOP STOP STOP STAAAAAHHHHHPPPPPPPPPPTrue I don't play him anymore, but neither do 90% of the people that played Kano back in April, May, and June. Should tell you something.
As far as other characters pressure, it works because they have options. It's MKX at it's finest, and I'd rather see characters get brought up to speed than characters nerfed of their toolset. Plenty of strong characters with super dirt or high frames. QC has +14 Runes that give him a second attempt at a 50/50 that puts you in a super blender. Sorceror can do 30% chip damage with EX Rune and the chip spell. Characters like Liu can block pressure you with heavy plus frames into massive chip and full combo your armor attempt. Characters like D'Vorah (my new and improved main) with super plus projectiles and can also put you into unfavorable positions meterless on block forcing you to make a hard read hoping you're right or get blown up. Etc etc etc.
Then there's Cyber Kano with +5 Knives that lead to nothing lol. I mean if you think that's fine compared to what other characters are working with by all means, but if he goes untouched once again I doubt anyone new will pick up this character for the rest of the game's life. Only people that will play him in 2016 are the Last of the Mohicans. At least he'll have lack of MU knowledge on his side though. -.-
Doomed to mediocrity because every patch he drops. Rremember at one point he was significantly better than Reptile, Takeda, etc, but buffs to those characters changed that. He went from a top 10 variation or possibly two Top 15 variations, to lower, to lower, to lowerrr, to at the top of the lower mid tier now. Meanwhile guys like Lao have just been great from Day 1. Imagine if he continues getting nothing while *insert next character(s) to pass him again* get buffs. He'll just continue his downward slide and then patches will be finished.Stop stop stop STOP STOP STOP STOP STAAAAAHHHHHPPPPPPPPPP
Cybernetic doesn't need +10 because it's not a pressure variation, obviouslyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. You say "doomed to mediocrity" like he has no chance, mid tier in this game is not bad at all, especially considering some of the characters we beat or at the very least go even with that most don't.
90% is an exaggeration and you know it sir. Most of us still play/main him, besides you and Steve (who says he still plays him in some matchup anyway lol) I can't actually think of anyone else that dropped him. Feel free to list others if you can.
All Kano needs to bring him up to speed is normal damage. What you assume is up to speed seems to be safe 50/50s into insane damage or general plus frame pressure but that's just Cutthroat Cybernetic needs more damage on knives and less scaling on 2+4MB, Commando needs less scaling on 321+3MB and maybe a few more tick throws. That itself should make him good enough to compete because that's where he loses in matchups most of the time. He has some of the best footsies in the game man, don't forget that.
I'll be making a video soon discussing the current state of Kano and hopefully that should cover everything so the community (INCLUDING YOU GUYS ) better understand where Kano sits right now because there's a lot of misunderstandings/misinterpretations and a lot of both upplaying and downplaying.
Kano was not significantly better than Reptile, Reptile always had better damage and mixups in all his variations. Takeda was worse though but Ronin got buffs so now it's pretty good.Doomed to mediocrity because every patch he drops. Rremember at one point he was significantly better than Reptile, Takeda, etc, but buffs to those characters changed that. He went from a top 10 variation or possibly two Top 15 variations, to lower, to lower, to lowerrr, to at the top of the lower mid tier now. Meanwhile guys like Lao have just been great from Day 1. Imagine if he continues getting nothing while *insert next character(s) to pass him again* get buffs. He'll just continue his downward slide and then patches will be finished.
I also don't think +10 knives would change too much for him because of his toolset, I was just commentating on the "it's too much" statement when better characters with more dirt already have bigger frame advantages. "Not what he needs" is one thing and I agree, but saying its "too much" like it would make him some broken tier is just wrong. This is the fear that most people have about characters not half as good as the ones already in the game.
90% is 9/10 which probably is about right. I remember sooooooo many Kano main's early on. Look at the first few months in the Cyber thread and the general discussion, he was actually popular the first few months. Now there isn't barely anyone left from Showtime to Steve to Decay to Royale to Hippo, to others that are TYM like Dave to to Dribirut to Rude to etc to etc that fully main's the character. Any time you see Kano now it's either a "counter pick" or a "I haven't learned this MU enough with my better main yet" pick when sooooo many people used to main him. That's not a good look for his future when people fully adjust to MUs.
What I see now, and what most people seem to have come to is-
-Wanna grapple? Why play Commando when Sun God does almost everything it does better and then some?
-Want space control? Why play Cyber when HQT/BS Shinnok does almost everything it does better and then some?
-Wanna 50/50? Why play Cutthroat when Erron/QC does almost everything it does better and then some?
I've sat on D'Vorah now for a while, and unless some real buffs or KP2 surprises I'll likely stay. She's amazing! When I use her I can feel the foolishness of the game. She has her weakness or two but I honestly don't think I've complained a single time about her yet, like literally not once. Kano on the other hand feels like you're using inferior tools than your opponent most matches and the trade off is the reward feeling for winning "honest and fair". I'd love to play him again which is why I still talk about him, he's like that first love, but the dream is dead. I'm from nyc man, we don't like to play fair lol.
That would be a good alternative too. Cutt has one of the worst chip damage in the game so it would at least give him some on block damage. Not a bad idea at all.Just a thought if the DoT stays on ex buff what about increased chip damage when it is activated? Or do you think that would be too much?
Really? That much better? Vastly overrated? Out of the three of those characters who has a faster, longer reaching normal than Cybernetic's B2? I'd be surprised if Kotal's F2 outreached it. Plus Kano has an 11 frame advancing low crush he can combo from that I'm pretty sure reaches further than at least D'Vorah's F1, and Takeda is super slow (unless you're talking about Ronin) so I don't see him having an easier time in footsies. But that's all objective I guess and there are valid points on both sides of that discussion.Also, I hate to break it to Cyber mains, but his footsies are vastly overrated in this variation. Kotal Kahn, D'Vorah, even Takeda do that much better than Cyber Kano.
Rude pls. Unlike Kano, the majority of Shinnok's moves are unsafe. That's why they patched in the mb option onto Hell Sparks, so that you could stay safe after a blockstring. We all (should) know nothing is guaranteed after it anyway so it may as well only be +5. Quan is unexplainable, but these are the same people that removed autoblock from Quan's skull for god knows what reason, touched Cutthroat when noone asked them to and overbuffed Bone Shaper lol.+10 knives would be fine. Shinnok, a zoning character, has a +14 on block mb special move. Summoner Quan, an exceptional zoner, has a +14 on block special move.
But you use Summoner Quan instead and unlike myself NEVER play Kano so why should anyone listen to what you have to say about a character you don't even play any more? Better yet, have you actually played in any tournaments? It's not my fault I play multiple characters, you do too, so what's the problem? Why do you care if I play more than one character? I never claimed I'd solely main Kano in every match I'd play for the rest of the time I played MKX so why are you STILL taking jabs at me? I honestly don't get what your problem with me is, and especially considering the whole mess from the local thread however long ago I would've thought you'd have matured enough to let go of whatever grudge you have with me. Move on man...This is just my take on the character. I don't play him in tournaments, unlike Youphemism who claims to, yet often used high tiers like Cassie Cage and Sonya.
I personally don't see this being said anywhere but feel free to provide quotes of people saying this. I've always said that damage is the main reason he loses a bunch of matchups.There is this common talking point that because Cyber Kano is a zoning variation that somehow necessitates his poor damage output mid-screen.
A cursory look at Kitana - a zoning character - across her variations will reveal how ridiculous this thinking is.
That narrative needs to die.