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Question - Grandmaster some changes the we'd like to see

RagingRicans

RagingRicans

NetBattles
Zoofs and I are the same person.

The secret is out. I'm just the less trash side.

Edit: and more handsome
 
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champdee

champdee

Apprentice
RagingRicans said:
Sub is fine tbh.

What would benefit Sub is a universal change to woman hitboxes.

No other character has to tailor their combos and conversions as much as sub.

Ice ball connecting off a f42 and a b33 would be nice, but not necessary.

I would like b12xxexKlone to be more consistent.

But ... Umm yeah. He's pretty gravy and I think he's underrated still.
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zoofs said:
GM is fine as is, only thing I would ever want anymore is some form of 100% consistent corner game on females similar to males which would require an entire hitbox overhaul

b12 ex clone being more consistent as well would be cool but isn't necessary once again nor do I care really

edit: ricans beat me to it and I seriously didn't read anything on second page
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You upplayers you :) , he's not gravy he's a cool character... did even prepatch sub make a top 8? yeah that's what I thought, I mean that in a joking tone btw... text can be taken out of context too easily.. reason I don't post too much.. but honestly.. if these changes came through... I have faith you guys would like them, and pretty sure tom woulda won a lot.
 
I GOT HANDS

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
B12 freeze does work, I'm not super familiar with the properties of F42, if it chained into freeze would it ever be worth using over B12?
 
EntropicByDesign

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
One Inch Punch said:
do you think 17% is a fair and good damage when u catch a jumping opponent with the clone
( 18% if u end with ice burst ), when almost everybody can just uppercut it and do 14% ? and sub zero GM anti air combos has low low damage.
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Given that clone can anti-air someone for you while you do other things.. I kinda do actually. You can also uppercut to AA, or use whatever other AA options Sub has. The thing is, if clone were ONLY an AA tool, sure, more damage makes sense, but by having clone out, you aren't *just* AAing, you are owning a very large chunk of the screen and owning it automatically. You don't take the risk of AAing with a normal and messing it up and eating my jump in, nor can I alter my timing (dive kick, Kitanas hover thing, etc) in the air to throw off the clone. If I touch it, I'm frozen and automatically lose almost 20% of my life. You can also AA my attempt to get around the clone with your own AA.. So if I jump vs a GM Sub who's on point, I'm taking an uugglyy risk. Even if I don't get cloned, you can just set up and D2 me, or whatever else he has that works well for AAing (I'm not very familiar with Sub from a player's perspective, just opponent).

I actually think that damage is really good considering everything else the clone does at the same time as its acting as an 'automatic' AA. 1/5th of my life bar is nice for something you can drop, then just leave on the screen to potentially ruin my day, while you, the player, with all Subs other abilities and tools, try also to ruin my day.

Also, what kind of corner carry do you get off an AA combo if the clone catches me jumping?
 
champdee

champdee

Apprentice
EntropicByDesign said:
Given that clone can anti-air someone for you while you do other things.. I kinda do actually. You can also uppercut to AA, or use whatever other AA options Sub has. The thing is, if clone were ONLY an AA tool, sure, more damage makes sense, but by having clone out, you aren't *just* AAing, you are owning a very large chunk of the screen and owning it automatically. You don't take the risk of AAing with a normal and messing it up and eating my jump in, nor can I alter my timing (dive kick, Kitanas hover thing, etc) in the air to throw off the clone. If I touch it, I'm frozen and automatically lose almost 20% of my life. You can also AA my attempt to get around the clone with your own AA.. So if I jump vs a GM Sub who's on point, I'm taking an uugglyy risk. Even if I don't get cloned, you can just set up and D2 me, or whatever else he has that works well for AAing (I'm not very familiar with Sub from a player's perspective, just opponent).

I actually think that damage is really good considering everything else the clone does at the same time as its acting as an 'automatic' AA. 1/5th of my life bar is nice for something you can drop, then just leave on the screen to potentially ruin my day, while you, the player, with all Subs other abilities and tools, try also to ruin my day.

Also, what kind of corner carry do you get off an AA combo if the clone catches me jumping?
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Do you play sub or just like arguing? Because your not contributing much, or adding to what sub could use.. I've kinda been ignoring your posts because they're not helping what this threads about.
 
champdee

champdee

Apprentice
alright so how about this, f42~freeze, 12~freeze, b33~freeze, f33~freeze work midscreen.. fair enough? oh and @Ree301 at highest lvl ppl will punish b12~clone, tom's said he's gotten full combo punished.. so it's only a matter of time.. i don't see making clone safe, ex + a big deal.. my wishlist is making the clones hitbox a lilllll bigger that's not really too much if you think about it... i mean preds trap doesn't go away on block.. he can throw it in the air... I know i'll get flamed but If pred can do that why not air clone.. :)
 
champdee

champdee

Apprentice
I GOT HANDS said:
B12 freeze does work, I'm not super familiar with the properties of F42, if it chained into freeze would it ever be worth using over B12?
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about the same I'd say.. maybe f42 wins because of range.. its close though. don't have the startup frames in front of me but think b12 is faster correct me if wrong please
 
EntropicByDesign

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Ok, I have been NOTHING but respectful. I have asked politely what people who have some idea how to play this game think he needs. I haven't said what exactly I thought he needed because I stated I didn't know him well enough to know how to 'fix' him EXCEPT, stating that he needed several of the FIXES you proposed. So, excellent work being a complete jack-ass and not realizing I was agreeing with several things you had said, but disagreed with a statement someone else had made about damage (That I, again, politely stated, and then clarified in a separate post). I wasn't aware we weren't allowed to disagree with you, or ask questions (pertaining to the topic) etc? You made a point, I made a counter-point. Uh oh! Better get childish and insulting and bitch like a 5yr old!

And the Ermac thing? Since you have proven to be too stupid to follow your own logic (that's pretty impressive btw). You said he was just the first name you lit on, so you used him to illustrate a point.. I simply used him to illustrate a counter-point. I used him in exactly the same way you did. Maybe you cant read that well through the visor of your helmet or maybe you just don't read well to begin with but if you ask your handler nicely they might help you sound out the stuff that's giving you trouble. Or, maybe I just made the mistake of trying to have an intelligent and polite discussion with an jackass?

I'm gonna go ahead and guess now, that you are one of the legions of mouth-breathing idiots that think a discussion is everyone agreeing to exactly what you say, or saying nothing, or perhaps in some fashion building on your current ideas (Fuck it, lets make *everything* Sub has totally safe and make it so he poops out little mini-clones every so many seconds like the worlds coldest hamster). Unfortunately cupcake, the world, and most certainly a DISCUSSION FORUM, don't work that way.

How about we spend a moment with that word.. Discussion.

"an act or instance of discussing; consideration or examination by argument, comment, etc., especially to explore solutions; informal debate."

I thought it might be relevant to post its actual meaning here since you don't seem to be terribly familiar with it. I have been DISCUSSING the proposed changes since my first post. Simply asking what OTHER people thought he needed and stating my opinions. Ya know homie? If a handful of reputable players come in and say you are right, then BOOM, I'll gladly smile and say cool, that's what SZ needs. The stuff I disagreed with, I musta been wrong about. But I don't see that happening. Other than a few people agreeing with the FIXES he needs (Again, I agreed with you there. I keep reminding you of this because lord knows by now, if you don't have a nosebleed already from all these words, you are starting to forget what i said originally), I don't see a whole lot of support.. Also, just for the record, I think b33xBIGASSBALLOFICE shouldn't need to be meter-burned to connect on any one.

So really, given what I have said, I'm not real sure what the animosity is about? I responded to @One Inch Punch, politely, because he asked me, politely, my opinion. Granted, he could have said it sarcastically, but I chose to take the high road and assume since I disagreed with him, he was asking my reasoning. And, I stated my support for some of your suggestions.

I'm not sure how to help you not be an asshole and an idiot, but I'll tell you this, if Sub *is* going to get any changes made to him, he's likely going to need a more competent spokesperson than you.

Ohh, one more thing. I don't play Sub, I play against him. If you don't understand the value and the need for non-sub mains to at least state their opinions, then - well, you've proven my point that you are not the guy to be asking for, or championing Sub changes.

Edited to tone it down some. Its 3am, I was a little more hateful than I should have been originally.
 
champdee

champdee

Apprentice
so most agree with the hitbox freeze things atleast it looks like.. ?
12, b33, f33, f42 freeze meterless midscreen?

'Lil off topic, and it's a nitpick I know... but s1~freeze should work.. it's universal like with mournful 1~lift doesn' work but 11 whole cast has some. It's dumb I know.. but why? nevermind..

if only the breathing hitboxes were fixed too.. or never happened
 
champdee

champdee

Apprentice
EntropicByDesign said:
Ok, I have been NOTHING but respectful. I have asked politely what people who have some idea how to play this game think he needs. I haven't said what exactly I thought he needed because I stated I didn't know him well enough to know how to 'fix' him EXCEPT, stating that he needed several of the FIXES you proposed. So, excellent work being a complete jack-ass and not realizing I was agreeing with several things you had said, but disagreed with a statement someone else had made about damage (That I, again, politely stated, and then clarified in a separate post). I wasn't aware we weren't allowed to disagree with you, or ask questions (pertaining to the topic) etc? You made a point, I made a counter-point. Uh oh! Better get childish and insulting and bitch like a 5yr old!

And the Ermac thing? Since you have proven to be too stupid to follow your own logic (that's pretty impressive btw). You said he was just the first name you lit on, so you used him to illustrate a point.. I simply used him to illustrate a counter-point. I used him in exactly the same way you did. Maybe you cant read that well through the visor of your helmet or maybe you just don't read well to begin with but if you ask your handler nicely they might help you sound out the stuff that's giving you trouble. Or, maybe I just made the mistake of trying to have an intelligent and polite discussion with an jackass?

I'm gonna go ahead and guess now, that you are one of the legions of mouth-breathing idiots that think a discussion is everyone agreeing to exactly what you say, or saying nothing, or perhaps in some fashion building on your current ideas (Fuck it, lets make *everything* Sub has totally safe and make it so he poops out little mini-clones every so many seconds like the worlds coldest hamster). Unfortunately cupcake, the world, and most certainly a DISCUSSION FORUM, don't work that way.

How about we spend a moment with that word.. Discussion.

"an act or instance of discussing; consideration or examination by argument, comment, etc., especially to explore solutions; informal debate."

I thought it might be relevant to post its actual meaning here since you don't seem to be terribly familiar with it. I have been DISCUSSING the proposed changes since my first post. Simply asking what OTHER people thought he needed and stating my opinions. Ya know homie? If a handful of reputable players come in and say you are right, then BOOM, I'll gladly smile and say cool, that's what SZ needs. The stuff I disagreed with, I musta been wrong about. But I don't see that happening. Other than a few people agreeing with the FIXES he needs (Again, I agreed with you there. I keep reminding you of this because lord knows by now, if you don't have a nosebleed already from all these words, you are starting to forget what i said originally), I don't see a whole lot of support.. Also, just for the record, I think b33xBIGASSBALLOFICE shouldn't need to be meter-burned to connect on any one.

So really, given what I have said, I'm not real sure what the animosity is about? I responded to @One Inch Punch, politely, because he asked me, politely, my opinion. Granted, he could have said it sarcastically, but I chose to take the high road and assume since I disagreed with him, he was asking my reasoning. And, I stated my support for some of your suggestions.

I'm not sure how to help you not be an asshole and an idiot, but I'll tell you this, if Sub *is* going to get any changes made to him, he's likely going to need a more competent spokesperson than you.

Ohh, one more thing. I don't play Sub, I play against him. If you don't understand the value and the need for non-sub mains to at least state their opinions, then - well, you've proven my point that you are not the guy to be asking for, or championing Sub changes.

Edited to tone it down some. Its 3am, I was a little more hateful than I should have been originally.
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relax, I don't know you and I'm asking sub mains mostly and don't feel like pointing out obvious stuff.. a.k.a too late to explain the character, not trying to insult you sorry if I came out that way.. fuckin text I tell u
 
MadeOfMetal

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
my only request for Sub Zero is:

Clone doesn't go away on block.... we need sub back... i wont play him till then. because he isnt sub.

my reason: its not hard to fight off. just break it with meter or projectile, or jip or use long range attack/ tele.
 
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