Match-Up Discussion - Goro Buffs Goro needs so he doesn't lose to the whole cast

[A F0xy Grampa]

Please do not say a character is good when you do not play this character.

I'm not saying Goro is useless and unplayable because he isn't. The worst character in this game is still a threat, but still loses to 95% percent off the cast.

And if you are losing to Goro with Imposter or Bone Shaper Shinnok then you do not know the matchup.

Those are some of Goro's worst matchups. Maybe he is just a better player then you.

So please do not come into a character sub forum and up play a character because you seem to be unaware of the matchup.

And if you want high level Goro play watch
Myself
@BunLantern
Khaotic Armor
@FOREVER KING
@Decay

There are plenty of High level Goro players you just have to look for them.

You can say a character is good without playing them. Thats not a fair thing to say. I only play Kung Lao, but I'm pretty certain I'd beat most Jax players with Jax for example (already have within my scene actually ), application of knowledge my friend.


The Goro issue could be 2 things.

1. Goro players aren't typically top tier players themselves as it is.
2. Goro sucks.

Combine those 2 elements and it could potentially make the character look worse than he is.
Perhaps players like FK, DJT or SonicFox could wreck a vast majority of the community with Goro. Even the Goro mains themselves.

Now, you say there are plenty of high level goro players, but where are they for real? And where are the results? (player results across nrs games, not goro results) Currently you have FK, for one match against Sub Zero. No other player that dare grace goro with their time has ever won an event am I right?



IDONTGIVEAFUCKGOROCOMMUNITYFIRSTO13MEIFURBUTTHURTMOTHERFUCKERS

 

[BiPolarExxpress]

Nobody is saying Goro is bad. I am not sure HOW MANY TIMES I have to say this. The worst character in this game in still VIABLE. This is not MK9 / Injustice.

There is no Baraka or Sheeva in this game.

Goro loses to:

• KL - No need to explain all Goro players agree.
• Kitana - Out Zoned, IAF or any fans stop Goro from advancing with out taking a risk.
• Scorpion - Even after the U1/U2 Buff Goro still has issues with JIKs due the the vertical hitbox of the move. This could be closer to a 5-5
• Mileena - Out zoned, Cannot stomp. Cannot whiff anything due to her roll. Zoned out with Sias
• Takeda - Ronin Specifically - Not able to zone due to reflect or "Piecering Beam" that absorbs projectiles. Longer ranges normals. therefore Goro has to rely on MB Punchwalk
• Cassie - Outzoned, Better space Control. Funky hitbox pretty much rules out SG in this matchup.
• Jacqui - Outzone in Full Auto, cannot not do anything just advance and with Goros slow walkspeed it takes him a while.
• Tanya - No need to explain all Goro players agree.
• Predator - HQT Goro gets outzone fairly easy in this matchup, but Goro does have the advantage up close. But the zoning is really hard to get passed.
• Shinnok - No need to explain all Goro players agree.
• Kano - Fast Mid Knifes makes it hard for Goro to advance, with all of the AA buffs this character received pretty much rules out jumping in aswell.
• Liu Kang - One of the few characters that can break Goro Ex Punchwalk Armor if done correctly. Also Good Zoning keeps Goro out fairly easy.
• Ermac - One of his worst matchups IMO. Not able to do anything full screen because the risk of a trade with Soul Ball or Teleport, The risk reward is not there. Ermac does 40% Meterless and a stomp or projectile do not trade well.
• Reptile - Decent Zoning, just enough to make Goro have to come in and fight up close. Reptile can punish stomp with Armored Launcher and send you back full screen.
• D'Vorah - Better neutral game, better space control.
• Quan Chi - No need to explain all Goro players agree.
• Tremor - Goro can do nothing full screen against this character, has to get up close while Tremor can also full combo punish Telestomp pretty easy in Crystalline. Pretty much on reaction

Don't take this the wrong way, few questions/observations on the matchups.

Kitana: Why is it taking a risk? You can just walk forward and duck fans.

Mileena: Sai zoning is really not hard to deal with, and you don't really need to stomp. Mileena can whiff punish anyone really, just gotta confirm.

Cassie: If we're talking Hollywood, she really shouldn't outzone you if you go Tigrar, even KW.

Jacqui: This one I'm more theoryfighting, so i'll go with it as losing. Typically a big body has a slow time getting in and the pay off becomes worth it. She still doesn't have absurdly quick normals, or a good wakeup game. Wouldn't that be a trade off for having to duck gun?

Kano: Only has mid knives in Cyber, what about the other variations?

Liu Kang: Can break armor, but he's still making a read to do it. I've found Goro's pokes to be a problem for Liu, has a bit of a rough time getting out of pressure.

Reptile: Fair point, but mostly everyone can punish stomp lol.

Honestly a lot of the points just sound like the struggles of a big body. Taking a while to get in, but have a pay off that's worth it. If he got in extremely easy he'd be a pretty fucked up character.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Lately, it's been like...

hmm...I wonder why...

 

[Alright RyRy]

You can say a character is good without playing them. Thats not a fair thing to say. I only play Kung Lao, but I'm pretty certain I'd beat most Jax players with Jax for example, application of knowledge my friend.


The Goro issue could be 2 things.

1. Goro players aren't typically top tier players themselves as it is.
2. Goro sucks.

Combine those 2 elements and it could potentially make the character look worse than he is.
Perhaps players like FK, DJT or SonicFox could wreck a vast majority of the community with Goro. Even the Goro mains themselves.

Now, you say there are plenty of high level goro players, but where are they for real? And where are the results? (player results across nrs games, not goro results) Currently you have FK, for one match against Sub Zero. No other player that dare grace goro with their time has ever won an event am I right?



IDONTGIVEAFUCKGOROCOMMUNITYFIRSTO13MEIFURBUTTHURTMOTHERFUCKERS

So do me a favour and play Goro. I consider you one of the best players in the NRS scene. Please play Goro. The only reason why Goro was brought out against DJT was because it was a decent matchup for Goro, and FK is one of the 10 players that know how to play Goro.

Chris G won a game against Tyrant also, don't forget about that aswell.

Let me repeat my self again, BY NO MEANS DO I THINK GORO SUCKS. Goro is a viable character, but also has a hard time dealing with alot of the cast.

The day that a "Top Player" goes thru a stacked tournament with only Goro and wins, is the day I quit MKX.

By stacked I mean, EVO Stacked.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

So do me a favour and play Goro. I consider you one of the best players in the NRS scene. Please play Goro. The only reason why Goro was brought out against DJT was because it was a decent matchup for Goro, and FK is one of the 10 players that know how to play Goro.

Chris G won a game against Tyrant also, don't forget about that aswell.

I have no doubt that goro definitely needs a good mid.
But I'm a character loyalist bruh. Soooooooooo I can't help you

 

[Youphemism]

I haven't posted the thread yet but the entirety of my local is playing ONLY Goro next week. I say entirety of my local but it's 8 people lol. Numbers aside all matches are going to be Goro mirrors one way or another, just in case anyone cared (which you probably don't so fuck you )

 

[loogie]

So do me a favour and play Goro. I consider you one of the best players in the NRS scene. Please play Goro. The only reason why Goro was brought out against DJT was because it was a decent matchup for Goro, and FK is one of the 10 players that know how to play Goro.

Chris G won a game against Tyrant also, don't forget about that aswell.

Let me repeat my self again, BY NO MEANS DO I THINK GORO SUCKS. Goro is a viable character, but also has a hard time dealing with alot of the cast.

The day that a "Top Player" goes thru a stacked tournament with only Goro and wins, is the day I quit MKX.

By stacked I mean, EVO Stacked.

a few posts back you insisted that he was losing to 95% of the cast, now he doesn't suck and is viable...
if he wasn't viable, no pro would pick him at a grand final - not even for a single match, and the Subzero matchup looks pretty even to me

 

[Qwark28]

When TYM finallly learns what a 6-4 match actually means, these discussions will be a lot more constructive.

Guile vs Bison is 6-4. Enough said. Now go watch Tampa Bison vs Dieminion at TFC. If you honestly think Goro has it that bad against 95% of the cast then I dunno what to say.

You can't compare games with different mechanics. SF4 is in another league when it comes to technical things and footsies, the reason matchups are bad in a game like that is entirely different.

Bad matchups in MK/IGAU typically have one character completely overwhelmed in either offense or defense while in SF4 it's more focused around their normals beating yours and forcing risky plays in a downback game.

 

[Qwark28]

Also I had to reveal ignored member posts and saw who you're arguing with.

Good luck.

 

[infamy23]

You can't compare games with different mechanics. SF4 is in another league when it comes to technical things and footsies, the reason matchups are bad in a game like that is entirely different.

Bad matchups in MK/IGAU typically have one character completely overwhelmed in either offense or defense while in SF4 it's more focused around their normals beating yours and forcing risky plays in a downback game.

6-4 means that if 2 equally skilled high level players of each character played a ft100 set every day for a month, one of those players would have approximately a 60% win rate after those 3000 games.

Game mechanics and differences between games are irrelevant, it's just a question of speculative statistics.

In regards to SF4, those statistics are no longer speculative, which is why I use Guile vs Bison as the prime example of a 6-4 matchup, because we KNOW it's at least 6-4 based on thousands of documented matches over 7 years of tournament gameplay.

So my point was, if a match like that is 6-4, then it's hard for me to believe that Goro vs Kitana is 6-4, considering Goro has way more options against Kitana than Bison does against Guile. If Capcom allowed Bison to duck under a sonic boom, or spend a bar to go through one for a 30% combo, every Bison player on the planet would cry tears of joy. But here in the world of MKX, if you don't have a full screen move that gets you in for free, the match is obviously 6-4.

 

[Rude]

One of the talking points I saw is that Cassie Cage zones Goro out? I don't buy it.

Why can't you duck her slow, heavy recovery guns?

If it's a matter of Goro's ducking hitbox, can't you run and cancel run with a downpoke to low profile?

I could buy HQT zoning being a problem or Shinnok or Quan but...Cassie?

She wants to get in your face. That should be somewhere Goro excels.

 

[kabelfritz]

only buff he needs is in his name: "Uncle Goro" is the way to go.

 

[Qwark28]

6-4 means that if 2 equally skilled high level players of each character played a ft100 set every day for a month, one of those players would have approximately a 60% win rate after those 3000 games.

Game mechanics and differences between games are irrelevant, it's just a question of speculative statistics.

In regards to SF4, those statistics are no longer speculative, which is why I use Guile vs Bison as the prime example of a 6-4 matchup, because we KNOW it's at least 6-4 based on thousands of documented matches over 7 years of tournament gameplay.

So my point was, if a match like that is 6-4, then it's hard for me to believe that Goro vs Kitana is 6-4, considering Goro has way more options against Kitana than Bison does against Guile. If Capcom allowed Bison to duck under a sonic boom, or spend a bar to go through one for a 30% combo, every Bison player on the planet would cry tears of joy. But here in the world of MKX, if you don't have a full screen move that gets you in for free, the match is obviously 6-4.

You can't look at it as a statistic. That's now how it works, there is a different meaning to 6-4 depending on the game.

MK9 6-4s barely mattered, they were nearly irrelevant. Injustice 6-4s were a decent advantage and that's where even slightly bad matchups started to become noticeable. MKX looks to be the same.

SF4 6-4 is a significant advantage while 7-3 is near unwinnable.

You have to look at how a matchup is 6-4 based on the game engine. Whether it's a game engine in which 6-4 means you rarely get in or have to guess 50-50s or that your normals are not effective at all. Ignoring that just means you don't understand the theme each game is centered around and the mechanics valued. In a game where the neutral is the door you have to walk through to get anything going, that's what matters while in games where you want to impose offense like MKX, the most assertive character has the advantage.

The sonic boom is one of the reasons why the matchup is bad but that's not entirely it.

 

[BiPolarExxpress]

One of the talking points I saw is that Cassie Cage zones Goro out? I don't buy it.

Why can't you duck her slow, heavy recovery guns?

If it's a matter of Goro's ducking hitbox, can't you run and cancel run with a downpoke to low profile?

I could buy HQT zoning being a problem or Shinnok or Quan but...Cassie?

She wants to get in your face. That should be somewhere Goro excels.

It's a really common mindset of players who play big bodies honestly. Patience is the biggest portion of their game plan, I learned it the hard way in previous games. Until it's realized, you won't be using characters like that to their potential at all.

 

[Metzos]

Because some of these buffs did not address the problems he has had since day 1.

He has better meter management now, that is a given. A good Anti Air now. But nothing about his full screen game, when Goro is on the defense. Normals were not changed to be faster or further advancing. B12U2 Got fixed. Stomp is still punishable just not as easy.

I love the buffs he has received, like I have stated multiple times in this thread, If Goro had a faster F2 or F3 I would be complete with this character. I am not asking for buffs that would make him top tier. Just something that would help his neutral game more.

If Goro's f3 had 11 or 12f startup, he would break everyone m8. Do you realize what you are saying? Take Goro as he is right now and add to him an 11 or 12f f3. Automatically top 5 character. Why? Because his opponents now, cant compete anywhere on the screen against him. Plain fact. Let me break down to you what Goro will be able to do if they give him a 11 or 12f startup f3:

Fullscreen: Ground pound, Stomp and a decent highly damaging projectile.

Midscreen: 11 or 12f f3, which will force the opponent to start jumping, that will lead to him getting AAed by u1/u2 or even d2.

Sweep range: Godlike d4, d4xxpw, chest lunge which now hits mid and not to mention the fact that if chest lunge trades with any attack you get A FULL JUMP IN COMBO. Its a lot easier for chest lunge to trade now since its a mid hitting attack.

Up close: Frame traps, 8f command grab, d1 and d3, ex pw, godlike 9f mid safe combo launcher, probably the best anti-cross up normal in the game.

That's a top 5 character with virtually no weaknesses at all. Thats what you are asking.


The 3 issues you mentioned were pretty much his only really big issues before the latest patch. They fixed those issues, plus they also buffed chest lunge as well.

Did i read this correctly? "But nothing about his full screen game, when Goro is on the defense." Really? Ground pound. Stomp. You mentioned zoning in MKX. Thats laughable as hell. Zoning, that is. Even against characters who out zone Goro, all he has to do is a correct read and boom, they are in the corner.

By avoiding projectiles you lead them into the corner, which means THEY have to commit in doing something risky in order to get out. Once in the corner, they dont get out, like ever. I really do not understand how you can still think that Goro loses against 95% of the cast after the buffs he received and not to mention the fact that the patch is not even out for a month and the character hasnt been fleshed out yet with these new changes.

Post edited.

 

[Rude]

It's a really common mindset of players who play big bodies honestly. Patience is the biggest portion of their game plan, I learned it the hard way in previous games. Until it's realized, you won't be using characters like that to their potential at all.

I'm not trying to shit talk Goro players by any means.

But some of these "gets zoned out" talking points don't make sense to me.

Against some of the higher tier zoners like Quan or HQT, sure. But Mileena? I'm skeptical. Sais are okay. They're not amazing.

Maybe I'm missing something.

 

[BiPolarExxpress]

I'm not trying to shit talk Goro players by any means.

But some of these "gets zoned out" talking points don't make sense to me.

Against some of the higher tier zoners like Quan or HQT, sure. But Mileena? I'm skeptical. Sais are okay. They're not amazing.

Maybe I'm missing something.

Oh I know what you mean. Other characters just get in easier by comparison, but it's not like you're dealing with Zod balls. Not really missing anything, we're in agreement there.

 

[Metzos]

Nobody is saying Goro is bad. I am not sure HOW MANY TIMES I have to say this. The worst character in this game in still VIABLE. This is not MK9 / Injustice.

There is no Baraka or Sheeva in this game.

Goro loses to:

• KL - No need to explain all Goro players agree.
• Kitana - Out Zoned, IAF or any fans stop Goro from advancing with out taking a risk.
• Scorpion - Even after the U1/U2 Buff Goro still has issues with JIKs due the the vertical hitbox of the move. This could be closer to a 5-5
• Mileena - Out zoned, Cannot stomp. Cannot whiff anything due to her roll. Zoned out with Sias
• Takeda - Ronin Specifically - Not able to zone due to reflect or "Piecering Beam" that absorbs projectiles. Longer ranges normals. therefore Goro has to rely on MB Punchwalk
• Cassie - Outzoned, Better space Control. Funky hitbox pretty much rules out SG in this matchup.
• Jacqui - Outzone in Full Auto, cannot not do anything just advance and with Goros slow walkspeed it takes him a while.
• Tanya - No need to explain all Goro players agree.
• Predator - HQT Goro gets outzone fairly easy in this matchup, but Goro does have the advantage up close. But the zoning is really hard to get passed.
• Shinnok - No need to explain all Goro players agree.
• Kano - Fast Mid Knifes makes it hard for Goro to advance, with all of the AA buffs this character received pretty much rules out jumping in aswell.
• Liu Kang - One of the few characters that can break Goro Ex Punchwalk Armor if done correctly. Also Good Zoning keeps Goro out fairly easy.
• Ermac - One of his worst matchups IMO. Not able to do anything full screen because the risk of a trade with Soul Ball or Teleport, The risk reward is not there. Ermac does 40% Meterless and a stomp or projectile do not trade well.
• Reptile - Decent Zoning, just enough to make Goro have to come in and fight up close. Reptile can punish stomp with Armored Launcher and send you back full screen.
• D'Vorah - Better neutral game, better space control.
• Quan Chi - No need to explain all Goro players agree.
• Tremor - Goro can do nothing full screen against this character, has to get up close while Tremor can also full combo punish Telestomp pretty easy in Crystalline. Pretty much on reaction

KL: Agreed, although i find this MU a bit more easier after the patch.

Kitana: Nope, just crouch d1 or d3 and move your way in. Once in her face, Goro has the advantage.

Scorpion: Agreed.

Mileena: Same with Kitana. Up close its like everyone else vs Mileena. Block her mixups and punish her with a shit load of dmg.

Takeda: Nope, you can always zone with gp which cannot be reflected. Up close Goro is superior against Takeda.

Cassie: Cassie cant zone for shit, regarding space control they are at the same lvl plus Goro has d4 against her b1, up close just do d3xxpw or plain d3's, since d1 can be punished by Cassie.

Jacqui: Damage wise alone, Goro wins the projectile trades against Jacqui. Once up close its qq for her. I believe Tigrar Goro fairs really good against her now.

Tanya: Agreed.

Predator: You can check Predator with gp's and you can also punish air sd's with gp as well, since sd in general has shitty recovery frames. Just duck the projectile and slowly lead Predator in the corner. He ll have to take risks to get out. Tigrar Goro fairs really good against him now after the buffs.

Shinnok: Agreed, although i find this MU a bit more easier after the patch.

Kano: Jokes aside Commando Kano fairs a lot better than Cybernetic Kano. Except knives Cyber Kano has nothing else to counter Goro.

Liu Kang: His zoning is a joke, his down pokes are a joke. Only issue is parry in FF.

Ermac: Against MoS you dont have to throw even one projectile. Just walk towards him. Up close he has nothing against Goro. Since his 50/50 mixups are highly unsafe and Goro's arent, i really dont understand why you believe its one of Goro's worst Mus.

Reptile: I dont have enough exp with the particular MU tbh.

D'vorah: Imo this is an even MU. Goro has the upper hand up close, cause of ex pw, which can force D'vorah to take risks, while Goro on the other hand is completely safe. Midscreen Goro can also check her with d4's to counter her f1. Full screen its even.

Quan Chi: Agreed.

Tremor: Same with Reptile.

 

[4x4lo8o]

I think some of the confusion about "getting out zoned" is related to people meaning different things by the term.

I presume people saying that about the Cassie match up mean that he can't win just by zoning, which is generally true. Air guns effectively shut down a lot of Goro's full screen options. But if you interpret that to mean that Goro just can't get in and gets zoned to death that's not a true statement at all. He has to spend a lot of time in her face if he wants to win, and that's where she likes to be.


Although one thing to think about in regards to Goro's full screen game that it seems like some people ignore is that he may as well not have a run. This thing that other characters do where they throw projectiles at the opponent, then while the opponent is thinking about getting in through the zoning they run up and start pressure or do a mix up - Goro can't do that. If the opponent whiffs something Goro can't run up and punish. If the opponent has projectiles that require certain placement(HQT low laser, Quan Pillars, Kenshi downslash, etc) Goro generally doesn't have the option to make a read and run past and punish.
I'm not on the "Goro is a broken, nonviable character" train, I think the character is pretty good, but people playing other characters should keep in mind the fact that Goro is essentially missing a tool that is a fundamental part to nearly every other characters gameplan.

 

[chief713]

I'm not trying to shit talk Goro players by any means.

But some of these "gets zoned out" talking points don't make sense to me.

Against some of the higher tier zoners like Quan or HQT, sure. But Mileena? I'm skeptical. Sais are okay. They're not amazing.

Maybe I'm missing something.

I'm a lifelong grappler player, so I thoroughly understand how to get around zoning with no tools other than walk and block. That being said, Goro has such a horrible walk/run speed that things like Mileena's sais can be a problem. And with THAT being said, it's a lot better in TF now with buffed flame ball.

 

[Alright RyRy]

I am only talking about KW. That is the only Variation I play. I totally understand that TF may be the way to go in certain matchups but I do not like it.

Now, what I mean by Goro being on the defense at full screen is when they (the opposing character) is attempting to zone you out. Take Kitana for example, GP does not trade, nor does SB so you would have to advance in, that takes a while for Goro, I am sure we are all aware of that by now. While you are advancing she can not do anything change her pattern try to catch you advancing with a EX Lift (RoyalStorm). She does outzone Goro, not to mention the reflect she has. Also forgot to mention Mournful Kitana She also outzone Goro fairly easy.

Predator (HQT) Not sure how you can trade with a GP since its slow start up and the Pew pews have the advantage simply because they are faster and knock you out of the animation.

Cassie's IAA are the same thing, if done properly they beat out GP, they hit you and whiff. So you have to rely on walking in and advancing and you better not press any buttons because Cassie is the best whiff punisher in the game. I understand they are like -22 or something on block, but I do not think that is the case when they are done IA.

Ermac Goro can do NOTHING full screen, so he has to advance. If Goro throws a projectile he eats 40%, Goro cannot telestomp at all because of the Vanish, full combo punish every time so that is also taken out of Goro's game plan. While up-close yes Goro has the advantage. Goro can only rely on pokes and punchwalk in this MU, and also not to mention the damage comparison is horrible since Ermac does not need meter for damage, and would usually have a breaker. I have played Big D in this matchup since Day 1 nothing has really changed.

Jacqui - What trade, start up on anything is too slow to trade, Yes she only does like 7% but the bullets break EX PW, she has the best walkback speed in the game and also has really good AA. When Goro is in I agree he dominates her, she has terrible pokes and cannot out footsie Goro. Also if Jacqui reads a projectile she can absorb it.

Kano - both are tough and Commando maybe worse, but since it's a 50/50 guess on the parry it's not as easy as it seems on paper. If the CY Kano player reads a EX Punchwalk they do a EX Knife, they win the trade, one of the few characters that can do this.

They way I see it is like this, Goro has the slowest walk-speed in the game, that is without question. But why give him NOTHING to advancing with? a 16f mid that has decent range at best. A Chest Lunge that is Variation specific that is super punishable on block. D4 is a nice tool but not a whiff punisher, a whilf punisher that any other character in the GAME has. Also giving Goro the worst back dash in the game.

Also like people have stated before this post, just because those zoning options are easy to get around with certain characters does not mean they are the same with Goro, simply because of the walk / run speed.

That is my point. @Metzos If you see it differently than me, so be it. This is my opinion on what this character needs to be able to win a Major. Isn't that what we want from a game, is for EVERY character to win a major?

 

[Youphemism]

Jacqui - What trade, start up on anything is too slow to trade, Yes she only does like 7% but the bullets break EX PW, she has the best walkback speed in the game and also has really good AA.

They way I see it is like this, Goro has the slowest walk-speed in the game, that is without question.

Incorrect. Kitana has the best backwards walkspeed. Goro has an average backward walkspeed and slightly above average forward walkspeed.

 

[Alright RyRy]

a few posts back you insisted that he was losing to 95% of the cast, now he doesn't suck and is viable...
if he wasn't viable, no pro would pick him at a grand final - not even for a single match, and the Subzero matchup looks pretty even to me

NOBODY has said he isn't Viable. Where are you getting this from? I will repeat my self again. Even the WORST character in this game is still a threat, may it bet Jason, Goro or any-other character they are still a threat, Unlike MK9 with Sheeva / Baraka or even Stryker.

Every Goro play agrees that Sub is one of Goro's best matchups. But this is coming from the person who thought Goro vs Shinnok is even.

 

[Rude]

I am only talking about KW. That is the only Variation I play. I totally understand that TF may be the way to go in certain matchups but I do not like it.

Now, what I mean by Goro being on the defense at full screen is when they (the opposing character) is attempting to zone you out. Take Kitana for example, GP does not trade, nor does SB so you would have to advance in, that takes a while for Goro, I am sure we are all aware of that by now. While you are advancing she can not do anything change her pattern try to catch you advancing with a EX Lift (RoyalStorm). She does outzone Goro, not to mention the reflect she has. Also forgot to mention Mournful Kitana She also outzone Goro fairly easy.

Predator (HQT) Not sure how you can trade with a GP since its slow start up and the Pew pews have the advantage simply because they are faster and knock you out of the animation.

Cassie's IAA are the same thing, if done properly they beat out GP, they hit you and whiff. So you have to rely on walking in and advancing and you better not press any buttons because Cassie is the best whiff punisher in the game. I understand they are like -22 or something on block, but I do not think that is the case when they are done IA.

Ermac Goro can do NOTHING full screen, so he has to advance. If Goro throws a projectile he eats 40%, Goro cannot telestomp at all because of the Vanish, full combo punish every time so that is also taken out of Goro's game plan. While up-close yes Goro has the advantage. Goro can only rely on pokes and punchwalk in this MU, and also not to mention the damage comparison is horrible since Ermac does not need meter for damage, and would usually have a breaker. I have played Big D in this matchup since Day 1 nothing has really changed.

Jacqui - What trade, start up on anything is too slow to trade, Yes she only does like 7% but the bullets break EX PW, she has the best walkback speed in the game and also has really good AA. When Goro is in I agree he dominates her, she has terrible pokes and cannot out footsie Goro. Also if Jacqui reads a projectile she can absorb it.

Kano - both are tough and Commando maybe worse, but since it's a 50/50 guess on the parry it's not as easy as it seems on paper. If the CY Kano player reads a EX Punchwalk they do a EX Knife, they win the trade, one of the few characters that can do this.

They way I see it is like this, Goro has the slowest walk-speed in the game, that is without question. But why give him NOTHING to advancing with? a 16f mid that has decent range at best. A Chest Lunge that is Variation specific that is super punishable on block. D4 is a nice tool but not a whiff punisher, a whilf punisher that any other character in the GAME has. Also giving Goro the worst back dash in the game.

Also like people have stated before this post, just because those zoning options are easy to get around with certain characters does not mean they are the same with Goro, simply because of the walk / run speed.

That is my point. @Metzos If you see it differently than me, so be it. This is my opinion on what this character needs to be able to win a Major. Isn't that what we want from a game, is for EVERY character to win a major?

A 16 frame advancing whiff punisher isn't slow by any means.

You probably can't use it for everything, but this game has a lot of character specific minutiae that one size doesn't fit all for answers. So while your mid hitting move might be an answer in one situation, d4 might be another.

Even if you don't have a move for an answer, you can always use the whiff recovery to close the gap and at least attempt to start pressure. You have the threat of two hits of armor on a launcher. That's a hell of a tool to have.

It seems to me that if you want to do well in these bad match ups, you need to use the best variation for it. Handicapping yourself because you don't like a certain variation won't help.

I play all three variations of my character. There are legit match ups(Roo Kang) that I choose Warlock over Summoner or Sorcerer. Is it the best? No, but it serves a purpose.

I'm just throwing my two cents in, not trying to tell you how to play your character.

 

[Alright RyRy]

A 16 frame advancing whiff punisher isn't slow by any means.

You probably can't use it for everything, but this game has a lot of character specific minutiae that one size doesn't fit all for answers. So while your mid hitting move might be an answer in one situation, d4 might be another.

Even if you don't have a move for an answer, you can always use the whiff recovery to close the gap and at least attempt to start pressure. You have the threat of two hits of armor on a launcher. That's a hell of a tool to have.

It seems to me that if you want to do well in these bad match ups, you need to use the best variation for it. Handicapping yourself because you don't like a certain variation won't help.

I play all three variations of my character. There are legit match ups(Roo Kang) that I choose Warlock over Summoner or Sorcerer. Is it the best? No, but it serves a purpose.

I'm just throwing my two cents in, not trying to tell you how to play your character.

Understand what you are saying, But I do not like the other Variations. To me the GP is too good to let go of, along with the CL. Too many holes in TF for my liking.