TYM's collective Character placement after 8-31 patch(updated)

[Bomborge]

some characters can armor it, but thats not everyone... you can pop some of them out before they startup there animation of AM.... its somewhere when the frame is at startup but not active and between where the move is at recover animation to active animation... im not the best at it but it can be timed, although it is slightly different on different special moves, but im sure a main can do this....

Every character that has an armored move can armor through. The gap is there because its only a few + frames and you're exaggerating how plus it is. I play against a solid SD Johnny and every character I use can armor through it.

 

[Raidenwins]

help make it then, it seems on TYM there is never a time to make a tier list, there is gonna be patches fr awhile, 2 weeks- month is to short, even 6months into a game is still to new. but consider there may be changes up to the very end where most end up leaving like mk9 due to online... im hoping the community together gets it close enough to a tier that most can agree on.

I Wasn't talking about your tier list. Yours is good.

 

[STRYKIE]

MRW I saw Inferno higher than Ninjutsu and Hellfire

 

[Dean]

The up-play here is real. I main Kotal and I know how to use BG. BG is a character that requires great footsies, neutral, and totems out at all times. The variation is dependent upon capitalizing on the mistakes of opponents like punishing negative strings and whiffs. I never said the variation was not viable but claiming it's his best variation in a game flooded with 50/50 mix ups, frame traps, and armored launchers is a stretch.

Yes, I know, in a game of, blah, blah, blah, insert against the meta statement here, blah, blah...

Some of these guys that play this variation, at the level that they do, has me convinced it's his best variation.

I think a lot of these variations in this game are much better than a lot of people give them credit for, and its only because of this dumb "it doesn't fit the meta" mentality.

Oh well, I'm confident in my opinion, have fun with WG.. or SG, whatever it may be.

 

[Youphemism]

help make it then, it seems on TYM there is never a time to make a tier list, there is gonna be patches fr awhile, 2 weeks- month is to short, even 6months into a game is still to new. but consider there may be changes up to the very end where most end up leaving like mk9 due to online... im hoping the community together gets it close enough to a tier that most can agree on.

The game isn't being patched again until KP2, there's no reason to do one only two weeks after the last patch. Did you not wonder why noone else had done one?

 

[GAV]

I play for fun against friends and online and I love the brutality. Sue me. But I would be stupid not to realize when a character/variation outclasses another and in Hollywoods case it is just plain to see how much better it is than Brawler.

Understood, but you do understand how this is downplaying, right?

 

[Enexemander]

The game isn't being patched again until KP2, there's no reason to do one only two weeks after the last patch. Did you not wonder why noone else had done one?

It has to be hotfixed to fix the bugs with Quan and Tanya. I mean, I guess they could just leave the half-measures in, but it looks really bad to just leave those half-assed fixes in for months and months. I wouldn't be surprised if they put some balance changes in there as well.

 

[GAV]

The game isn't being patched again until KP2, there's no reason to do one only two weeks after the last patch. Did you not wonder why noone else had done one?

I wouldn't have a clue where to start, but I like that he had the guts to put himself out there.

This is how the discussion starts. Its to be commended.

 

[Sage Leviathan]

@ESG Jagged

At this point I'm not even perturbed by your list.
I'm disappointed by all these hilariously stupid rebuttals to your list.

 

[GAV]

omg gav your gif crack me up...lol that shit is off the hhok, where did you find that one?

I always just search Google.

 

[GAV]

Lol so you are too lazy to take the time to do a proper list, but you expect people to take the time to give you feedback. Umm k.

No one could make an accurate list at this point. So much has changed, but a starting point and discussion is a good start.

 

[ConquaY]

Understood, but you do understand how this is downplaying, right?

I could understand how it could come across as downplaying and I really do love brawler but Hollywood just has the better tools. To me both variations are very viable and A tier, its just Hollywood is clearly the better variation through my testing, while brawler is more fun to play. Also its good to see Hollywood changed to A tier now and since I only understand 5 characters at a high level, I can now say I agree with 5 of the characters placements.

 

[SM StarGazer]

Royal Storm mains are offended to see Assassin in same tier. Mournful mains are offended to see Assassin in a higher tier.

Indeed I am. RAGE!!!!! Everyones sleeping on High Tech though.

 

[Marinjuana]

I'm gonna go ahead an agree about Crystalline, it's arguably the worst variation for Tremor now. Standing 2 being high hurt Tremor's close pressure, which hurt Crystalline more then the other variations. Either way, Aftershock seems to have consistently better matchups and it seemed so before patch as well.

Crystal still has some great matchups but zoning seems like a more important part of his game and Metallic/Aftershock can zone much better. I'd put Aftershock where Crystal is, and then bring Metallic above, but closer to Crystal.

Other then that I generally agree.

 

[Surferkidjared]

Ehhh no

 

[Tweedy]

Would anyone else really enjoy a weekly or bi-weekly tier list stream with Pig and different guest(s)? They could maybe add it into the normal weekly stream every other week.

 

[Ashenar]

Yesssss

 

[Invincible Salads]

lol, scorpion inferno is one of the most gimmicky variations in the game. Looks cool, gives more damage, not much else.

also why would shaolin Kung Jin be better than Bojutsu, hasnt bojutsu beenbetter since forever?? o.0

 

[Vilén]

Why is it always a grain of salt? Why can no one admit we might need up to a pound of salt to swallow their shit?

 

[JerzeyReign]

Mileena not on the bottom?

I approve.

 

[Atomic Era]

Aftershock should really be higher than Crystalline, especially after the patch. Also how is special forces Sonya that low? It might be weaker than her other two variations(Don't know, don't play her) but as a character alone she's better than quite a few of the cast.

 

[IrishMantis]

I disagree with you

But I give you massive props on having the balls to do variation specific tier list

And also for an entertaining thread lol

 

[IrishMantis]

Mimic Rising Shadow leaves you at like +2, not really frame trapping from that (and you can armor out). Mimic Shadow Kick is like +10, but you can armor out of the follow up. Only EX-Rising Shadow allows you to keep going, but it's not exactly a conventional frame trap.

So if by frame trapping you mean being +2 so that you get a 6 frame down 1, or a 7 frame standing 1 then sure. Lots of characters have "frame traps" like that though...All the while A-List's cancels are actual frame traps and they're meterless.

Shadow kick is +13 just pointing that out

That's not really a frame trap, you just end at a few + frames. You can armor in between mimic and the mimic shadow kick and just as well in between the mimic shadow kick and d4.

i dont agree with his SD placement

But your confusing Blockstrings with Frametraps, a blockstring is where opponents can't armour or backlash where it truly jails.

A Frametrap is when you have atleast enough frames that your fastest move will beat the opponents fastest move and going by this games system every char can armour or backlash them. Some can even argue that negative on block normals can be frametraps as if your staggering a string that's - minus into more pressure for conditioning the opponent to press a button so you can trap them with the next hit of the string you usually stagger,
A blockstring can do what a Frametrap does technically, but they are different things,

And MImic SK > D4 is a blockstring as Mimic SK is +-13

 

[MadeOfMetal]

I Wasn't talking about your tier list. Yours is good.

im pretty sure my comment was to youph

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Shadow kick is +13 just pointing that out

i dont agree with his SD placement

But your confusing Blockstrings with Frametraps, a blockstring is where opponents can't armour or backlash where it truly jails.

A Frametrap is when you have atleast enough frames that your fastest move will beat the opponents fastest move and going by this games system every char can armour or backlash them. Some can even argue that negative on block normals can be frametraps as if your staggering a string that's - minus into more pressure for conditioning the opponent to press a button so you can trap them with the next hit of the string you usually stagger,
A blockstring can do what a Frametrap does technically, but they are different things,

And MImic SK > D4 is a blockstring as Mimic SK is +-13

well put.... i happen to know you are a very good SD, where would you place SD? let me further that request:

im glad they added that 213 speed reall helps end frame traps at distance where 114 would normally wiff. like i said before, i am not the master of every character and every matchup by no means, and i dont profess to be either, i made this thread well knowing that others would dissagree and that i would get the negative attention, and one handed comments.

i do however feel i have a good grasp on alot of characters. i currently do not have a main rather several.

im sure i am missing tricks strategy on MU's and alot of tech with most of the cast that just escaped me. (i learn more and more through videos, tech forums and so on. alot from fellow TYM'ers...) Thats why i need TYM's help in Tier placement, maybe we can come close to a universal agreement? kind of talk it out. and ill update the thread accordingly, after each patch, hotfix, DLC release. small gameplay changes, and when new tech is discovered by myself or others post publicly.


Where would you Place SD johnny cage and Alist Johnny cage and Fistycups? A-D

some people dont like having an S tier and a D tier, but they got to understand S does not mean they dominate all others(just mean they have special tools that give them a good matchup id say possibly 70/40 and D does not mean they can not win by far...

MKX has a huge comeback factor that MK9 i feel laked, along with MK9's serious S tier advantage over other characters... OMG Kabal was a frame monster of pressure,
Cyrax was a pressure and setup King.. sonya had serious armor advantage, JAx was obnoxious, and Johnny was superfast/and Liu...

if i may be as bold, even with MKX's serious problems... i feel it may be there most balanced game yet... i wont speak for IGAU but i here it was similar to MK9 in that aspect.