Guide - Grandmaster Sub-Zero GRANDMASTER Guide

[I GOT HANDS]

Can anyone shed some light on the Takeda matchup?
Grandmaster vs Shirai Ryu

It's probably Takeda's best match up

 

[RVB]

It's probably Takeda's best match up

I hate that shit...

 

[llabslb]

I've always said this, give a character a non collision attack and it'll shit all over the clone regardless of how bad the character maybe. Takeda is a perfect example.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Stay on Takeda. His up close normals blow. And if you're on him constantly he can't do his whip/kunai mixups.

Also, if you block a kunai... slide. If you block the first two overhead whips... ex slide.

Get him to the corner and then you can basically go ham. His armor isn't active long enough to go through the clone and his ex tele wakeup is highly punishable.

 

[SaSSolino]

so Shirai Ryu Takeda - GM Sub-Zero is actually bad for sub?

 

[loogie]

Stay on Takeda. His up close normals blow. And if you're on him constantly he can't do his whip/kunai mixups.

Also, if you block a kunai... slide. If you block the first two overhead whips... ex slide.

Get him to the corner and then you can basically go ham. His armor isn't active long enough to go through the clone and his ex tele wakeup is highly punishable.

Only way I am winning is if I get him to the corner, midscreen it is tough.
The problem I have with ex slide in between his b12 into kunai string is that you do the ex slide and send him full screen away ... I want to be upclose, not far from him. I figured in practice mode that I can actually JUMP OVER his string between the b12 and the kunai, but it is very distance dependent. so you can jump over it and on his face for a full combo if he does the string right outside of sweep and at jump forward distance. further away, you eat the kunai if you try to jump.
so, basically I can block his b12 and then jump over and whiff punish his kunai throw and give him a big 'WTF' moment!!

the kunai on blk is not always negative, depends on the distance. if he does it point blank he is only -6 I think, further away it is the more safe it gets on blk.

ex tele wake up is 0 on blk

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

ex tele wake up is 0 on blk

Is it? was that buffed? Thought it used to be punishable?

I usually just throw it lol.

 

[loogie]

I've always said this, give a character a non collision attack and it'll shit all over the clone regardless of how bad the character maybe. Takeda is a perfect example.

funny thing is that Unbreakable actually parries his whip normals

 

[llabslb]

funny thing is that Unbreakable actually parries his whip normals

But do you see that as a good alternative :/

 

[Creepy00]

Is it? was that buffed? Thought it used to be punishable?

I usually just throw it lol.

I wonder about this as well. I keep hearing it is -12 on block. It might have been buffed.

Edit: I take it back, it is -10 according to MKXframedata (site). The game has this listed wrong.

 

[loogie]

But do you see that as a good alternative :/

nope

here is another funny bit about Unbreakable, he can parry Mileena's telekick but not Quan's
furthermore, he can parry Scorp teleport but not Ermac's teleport

 

[llabslb]

nope

here is another funny bit about Unbreakable, he can parry Mileena's telekick but not Quan's
furthermore, he can parry Scorp teleport but not Ermac's teleport

I thought he was not able to parry jump ins AT ALL. So clearly NRS have been pissing about with his parry. He needs justice.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

But do you see that as a good alternative :/

Unbreakable is pretty damn good against Takeda in theory since you can punish his ranged shit on reaction, and his normals are slow and easier to block through with your aura.

Let's face it, without Grandmaster Sub would be Takeda tier as well, or lower, and that's practically what this match up is for him

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Let's face it, without Grandmaster Sub would be Takeda tier as well, or lower, and that's practically what this match up is for him

I agree that sub would be horrible without grandmaster, but I don't think the takeda matchup is all that bad.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I agree that sub would be horrible without grandmaster, but I don't think the takeda matchup is all that bad.

That's only because Takeda is so bad. His tools countering ours make it his best match up IMO, even tho that doesn't mean much considering he has so many bad match ups

 

[RM Ree]

Unless you've got really good no-variation fundamentals and plan for how he beats your corner game (mind games on teleport/NJP/ jump>teleport or specific player knowledge) and clone in general, GM isn't the best variation for this MU.

You can armor through b21 (w/ icy slide) xx kunai, but any variation . For corner carry, freeze, 242, run 123 xx slide is gonna get you there easy. Also, Takeda's jip is trash. You can anti air the cross ups/ air teleports with s1, b12 xx ice ball, njp, jip, run 123 xx slide. Also, ex teleport is a pretty easy b12 punish for SZ, if not that, then at least reversal slide. From range you can trade ice ball for b21 if Takeda is abusing it (after ex slide lands maybe).

That's all I see working, where as b12 xx ex whip is 35% and he's ignoring clone.

 

[Kanalratte]

Can anyone shed some light on the Takeda matchup?
Grandmaster vs Shirai Ryu

im just keeping distance when fighting takeda. if he teleports, full punish, if he ex teleport i punish with F3,3. if he teleports in air i'm just pressing 1,1,2 on reaction. if he njp i'm just blocking and punish with slide. not sure if you can armor through his long range combo after the second hit but it seems so.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

maybe a noobie question but how do i counter ermacs air dissapear move? he can either teleport, stomp, throw soul ball or njp. i find it hard "to get in"

Try throw! you can throw him even when he is invisible and in the air!

 

[loogie]

Unless you've got really good no-variation fundamentals and plan for how he beats your corner game (mind games on teleport/NJP/ jump>teleport or specific player knowledge) and clone in general, GM isn't the best variation for this MU.

You can armor through b21 (w/ icy slide) xx kunai, but any variation . For corner carry, freeze, 242, run 123 xx slide is gonna get you there easy. Also, Takeda's jip is trash. You can anti air the cross ups/ air teleports with s1, b12 xx ice ball, njp, jip, run 123 xx slide. Also, ex teleport is a pretty easy b12 punish for SZ, if not that, then at least reversal slide. From range you can trade ice ball for b21 if Takeda is abusing it (after ex slide lands maybe).

That's all I see working, where as b12 xx ex whip is 35% and he's ignoring clone.

3-0 d the same Takeda last night!

 

[RM Ree]

Fight da powa!

 

[Kanalratte]

Try throw! you can throw him even when he is invisible and in the air!

cool!!!! thanks for the hint. didn't know that.

 

[Lokheit]

Don't know if this has been mentioned before, but anyway, I found one of those "same stance only" things with Grandmaster Sub-Zero.

4 into Iceclone next to a cornered opponent will auto freeze him but only if you both are on the same stance (both with the chest pointing towards the camera or away) but won't even create a clone if you'r in opposite stances. I knew about Kung Lao having this kind of stuff (that I think shouldn't happen) and I was surprised finding it on Sub-Zero.

 

[Ravosa]

Why does everybody use d1 in the b2, b2 corner combo? Stand 1 does the same amount of damage and seems easier. Also as far as takeda goes, put him in the corner and he gets bodied. There's a gap after b21 and his best pressure string, f122+4, also has a gap.

 

[Lokheit]

Why does everybody use d1 in the b2, b2 corner combo? Stand 1 does the same amount of damage and seems easier. Also as far as takeda goes, put him in the corner and he gets bodied. There's a gap after b21 and his best pressure string, f122+4, also has a gap.

I guess it's a fail safe in case you miss the regular 1 as it's a high. Shouldn't happen a lot to be honest. With regular 1 you can even connect 2 of them (1, wait, 1, if you do 11 you won't be able to continue) before the B12.

 

[Kanalratte]

yeah is saw taco doing this. b2,b2,1,1,B12...