Guide - Grandmaster Sub-Zero GRANDMASTER Guide

[RM Ree]

B2, 242, b3 xx clone should work. Is there something better out there?

 

[Ravosa]

B2, 242, b3 xx clone should work. Is there something better out there?

I'm in the lab now. B2, delayed 242, 2 xx clone is inconsistent as well as the one you just wrote with b3. Wish brady would stop playing Diablo and tell us what the deal is.

 

[RM Ree]

I'm sure you'll find something in the lab that works for you. That's how we develop new tech, experiment for ourselves, y'know

 

[Creepy00]

Try this: B2,D1,D1,B3~iceclone or B2,1,1,1, B3~iceclone.

Both work on females. It just matter of timing and landing B3.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

So, if I have an upcoming tournament and I'm maining Lao with a side of Subby, what match-ups do we think Sub-Zero will perform best in? I already know I'll be using Grandmaster against any Predator's or Tanya's, and Unbreakable against any Goro's or Takeda's, I'll also be looking at taking Unbreakable vs Liu.

Do you guys have any opinions on any other REALLY positive match ups for Grandmaster?

 

[RVB]

So, if I have an upcoming tournament and I'm maining Lao with a side of Subby, what match-ups do we think Sub-Zero will perform best in? I already know I'll be using Grandmaster against any Predator's or Tanya's, and Unbreakable against any Goro's or Takeda's, I'll also be looking at taking Unbreakable vs Liu.

Do you guys have any opinions on any other REALLY positive match ups for Grandmaster?

Nope, in my opinion SZ doesn't have any 7-3 matchups in his favor ,the best he has is 6-4 vs characters like Cage where they need to get in to do damage and they have no teleport to circumvent the klone,but that 6-4 can easily turn into a 5-5 by switching to a variation like stunt double.

 

[Ryncage]

So, if I have an upcoming tournament and I'm maining Lao with a side of Subby, what match-ups do we think Sub-Zero will perform best in? I already know I'll be using Grandmaster against any Predator's or Tanya's, and Unbreakable against any Goro's or Takeda's, I'll also be looking at taking Unbreakable vs Liu.

Do you guys have any opinions on any other REALLY positive match ups for Grandmaster?

Gm against any character with teleports. Watching madzin play in vsf really sold me on that. Playing a patient game with safe clone cancles and literally just waiting for the guy to hanghimself. But really, that speaks volumes about sub as a character. His greatest strength is the mind games. Being able to go full aggressive to completely passive, getting the enemy to screw themselves and make bad reads is somthing gm does best.
i cant say that you should take gm for any particular matchup, but if you find the need to switch it up, do so. Dont stay totally glued to lao of the other guy has your number.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Gm against any character with teleports. Watching madzin play in vsf really sold me on that. Playing a patient game with safe clone cancles and literally just waiting for the guy to hanghimself. But really, that speaks volumes about sub as a character. His greatest strength is the mind games. Being able to go full aggressive to completely passive, getting the enemy to screw themselves and make bad reads is somthing gm does best.
i cant say that you should take gm for any particular matchup, but if you find the need to switch it up, do so. Dont stay totally glued to lao of the other guy has your number.

What do you think about Sub vs Ermac? He's a hard one for Lao.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

You should always be fighting with the character you are the most comfortable with. I don't think sub has a completely unwinnable matchup [yet], the only one that's stupid IMO right now is shinnok.

That being said, @I GOT HANDS i would not consider Sub as a hard counter to Ermac. I play @zaf fairly regularly and it is still an uphill battle

 

[I GOT HANDS]

You should always be fighting with the character you are the most comfortable with. I don't think sub has a completely unwinnable matchup [yet], the only one that's stupid IMO right now is shinnok.

That being said, @I GOT HANDS i would not consider Sub as a hard counter to Ermac. I play @zaf fairly regularly and it is still an uphill battle

I felt like that a little too, we don't kill him fast enough or punish his mix-ups hard enough.

Might be less relevant here, but who /what IS good against Ermac?

 

[xQUANTUMx]

I can fight Ermac with sub but I also have success fighting him with my alt (Liu Kang)

If you're using Lao then you're pretty much set lol.

 

[RM Ree]

Ermac MU, I try to use Cryomancer for the increased damage I get on a punish. But Cryo is so meter hungry, and I feel like Lao builds way more /and/ gets more damage on a punish anyway. Ermac beats clone pretty clean and the ice ball/ soul ball trade sucks. I don't think you should counter pick SZ unless you're confident in the change of strategy.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

Ya the meter dependency in Cryo was a turn off. I usually stick to GM for this. Meter is life in this game for me. To each his own though

 

[zaf]

You should always be fighting with the character you are the most comfortable with. I don't think sub has a completely unwinnable matchup [yet], the only one that's stupid IMO right now is shinnok.
That being said, @I GOT HANDS i would not consider Sub as a hard counter to Ermac. I play @zaf fairly regularly and it is still an uphill battle

I felt like that a little too, we don't kill him fast enough or punish his mix-ups hard enough.
Might be less relevant here, but who /what IS good against Ermac?

I can fight Ermac with sub but I also have success fighting him with my alt (Liu Kang)
If you're using Lao then you're pretty much set lol.

Ermac MU, I try to use Cryomancer for the increased damage I get on a punish. But Cryo is so meter hungry, and I feel like Lao builds way more /and/ gets more damage on a punish anyway. Ermac beats clone pretty clean and the ice ball/ soul ball trade sucks. I don't think you should counter pick SZ unless you're confident in the change of strategy.

- Ermac does not really care about klone.
- Can't do any strings on block into klone, other then 4~klone due to ex lift.
- Ermac does not need to do his "mix ups". He can pressure with strings or stagger them. Use grabs. Mix ups can be saved for a hard read or for counter pokes as well. His low is safe ( Just b3 is only -4), he does not need to do B32 or B34 at all. In place of the F4, instant air soul blast can be used. So if played like this, there are very few areas to get a full combo punish on his "mix ups". It is more of a guess that he will press a button or not, and armor out of his pressure into combo.
- Soul ball and Ice ball trade is not that bad actually. If both are done at the same time, and ermac is not able to block it will pretty much reset the situation. The soul ball and ice last for about the same time, but if ermac can block in time then it is bad for sub.
- Sub can also not shoot an iceball without a klone up to protect him from teleport.

@I GOT HANDS
Who/what is good against Ermac? Anyone that can sit on him and not let him get anything going.
He has a vortex and high damage, so I don't really count him out in any match ups("yet").

 

[xQUANTUMx]

In other words Lao is a good choice lol

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Ermac MU, I try to use Cryomancer for the increased damage I get on a punish. But Cryo is so meter hungry, and I feel like Lao builds way more /and/ gets more damage on a punish anyway. Ermac beats clone pretty clean and the ice ball/ soul ball trade sucks. I don't think you should counter pick SZ unless you're confident in the change of strategy.

In other words Lao is a good choice lol

Just to make it clear that I don't play Tempest though so I won't have Hat Spin pressure, and teleport characters like Ermac generally have no trouble getting around the positioning advantage of Hat Trap, leaving me without Spin or an overhead starter to work with

 

[Derptile]

@I GOT HANDS just play tempest(or even Buzzsaw) and don't worry about anything. He can deal with Ermac just fine.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

So, if I have an upcoming tournament and I'm maining Lao with a side of Subby, what match-ups do we think Sub-Zero will perform best in? I already know I'll be using Grandmaster against any Predator's or Tanya's, and Unbreakable against any Goro's or Takeda's, I'll also be looking at taking Unbreakable vs Liu.

Do you guys have any opinions on any other REALLY positive match ups for Grandmaster?

Why the hell would you use Sub vs Tanya instead of Lao? I think she beats sub.

I think he does well against Johnny Cage, Reptile, Jason, and Kitana. But I would assume lao does as well. I think he 7-3s them all except for Kitana which I think is 5-5/6-4.

 

[Kanalratte]

maybe a noobie question but how do i counter ermacs air dissapear move? he can either teleport, stomp, throw soul ball or njp. i find it hard "to get in"

 

[RM Ree]

All of those are pretty hard to beat head to head, but teleport and soul ball are punishable on block, the other two are punishable on whiff.

I'd say just hold block and wait patiently. If you're compelled, run and place an ice clone/ statue underneath where he disappeared, then block. That will force him to teleport (which you can punish), or fall directly into the freeze.

How many seconds can he stay off the screen anyway?

 

[Kanalratte]

just was in practice mode. he can dissapear from screen like 3 sec. so clone will dissapear before he can telepunch you -.- i tried the run / ice clone strategy but everytime i did this he njp'ed me. but like i said i was in practice mode with ermac. if he dissapears in the air, he can not do the stomp move, he has to do the hover move again and then stomp. so i guess the best thing you can do is to dash carefully in then block high. if hes going for the stomp he'll do the hover move again and that means that you should block low. i'll try that in my next ermac MU. but thanks for yout input mate.

 

[JohnnyWorms]

found another useful option select:
1,1~iceball comes out as 1,1,2 on block (-9)

 

[Creepy00]

You are better doing 11 OS Iceball on hit and be -5 if blocked (11).

 

[JohnnyWorms]

You are better doing 11 OS Iceball on hit and be -5 if blocked (11).

I'm a little confused on what you mean.

I going to start using this option select for the strict punishes.
I've been blown up for being late on the punish and committing to the ice ball.
This option select does't require meter to make it safer.

 

[loogie]

Can anyone shed some light on the Takeda matchup?
Grandmaster vs Shirai Ryu