YOMI LIVING MATCH UP CHART (FIRST DRAFT) v1.0 - 7-2-15 Tremor Patch

[VSchweiga]

It's been barely 4 months since April 14

oh yeah sry, i was thinking about the beta. mb

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

I look at Sonya's numbers and be like: are you sure you didn't mistype "Demolition" into "Covert Ops"

 

[zaf]

What makes you think she loses?

I play this match up heavily, since the release of the game with @Ecodus. So this would be MoS vs Full auto.
Ermac does not really care about her guns. He has tools around it. Teleport, levitate... soul ball trades are always in his favor.
Lift punishes normal gun at certain ranges, and punishes ex guns close enough into full combo.
When comparing the anti air game, he gets way more damage and follow ups out of an anti air then she does.
When comparing their armor, he has a safe get out of jail card and jacqui doesn't. She gets punished for using hers if blocked.
Her wake up game is weaker then his, he just needs a hard knockdown when he touches her, or keep her standing with soulball and continue the pressure.
Their damage game is about even midscreen, ermac might edge her out by a few % or so. Corner he has more damage and without meter.
So in the neutral when gun is nullified, she can weave in and out and look for an opening. But if she would like to get in, she generally has to use kara-cancels which she commits to. Ermac can poke her out of these with his 6 frame D1. Which then leads to his pressure since he is +10 on hit.
Up close after most of Ermac strings, he can pretty much get a free D1 check since she has nothing fast enough. Same thing goes to get out of her pressure. His D1 is faster then anything she has. If Jacqui is respecting the D1, she can't armor when Ermac does this because she whiffs and flies past him, leading to a full combo punish. If she sits there respecting D1 in situations, then he can go into other pressures.

Not saying he bodies her, it does feel even a lot of the time but that is probably because of the person playing her and not actually jacqui.
So I'd say he edges her out slightly, resulting in a 6-4.

EDIT: I have been informed, that jacqui can use her BF2 MB to armor as well. But I still feel the same after adding this to the write up. I don't feel this move alone will change it being 6-4.

 

[Darkling]

Who repped Johnny Cage? He must be a very good player. I dont know how JC goes even with Kung Lao, Dvorah, Cassie...

 

[VSchweiga]

Who repped Johnny Cage? He must be a very good player. I dont know how JC goes even with Kung Lao, Dvorah, Cassie...

after seeing dizzy play a-list i kinda agree on that

 

[Zyphox]

Please guys, if you disagree post your thoughts as well as exp in the MU including training partners and offline etc. Remember this is mostly for offline since no yomi member plays online and with how shit the netcode is, MU might be skewed during online play. Not saying you can't post if your an online player or anything, just keep in mind some characters might seem more difficult to fight online etc thanks guys and try not to have a heart attack!!

 

[Jer]

@DarkFire* I used to think the same thing about Cassie v Kenshi but I do believe it's 6-4. A whiffed flurry from full screen gets punished.

I also noticed these MU's for Cassie are specifically for Hollywood, which is fine since MU's don't change that much when in Spec Ops. However I think it's possibly 6-4 for Cassie against Quan(5-5 is still good), Sonya is probably 6-4 for Cassie as well. Other than that everything looks good (Jax may need to be adjusted, but I haven't played a good enough Jax yet).

Keep on with the good stuff boys.

 

[Skate Bravo]

Of course Shinnok would be the one to BODY the whole mk cast especially if this mofo knows who the fuck jason and predator is lol!

 

[Juggs]

How can quan chi be top 5 with 8 bad match ups?

Those aren't the top 5 highest numbers, at least, I don't think they are. I just did 5 good characters, but it was taking too long so I stopped.

 

[rafaw]

Im not saying raiden wins or loses, i want a good reason on why its 6-4 from the guys that wrote the tier list. The risk reward is even on both sides I agree, but against like Dvorah where her escape option isnt a combo im not really too bothered if she wants to use her bars to get me off her. Launching armour is a big pain for cage because im not opening you up with h/l guessing, i have to know (read) what you are going to do and answer appropriately. D4 is a good tool to start offense with a blockstring and potentially a throw, the answer you have to that blockstring is to launch me with your armour, and the yomi levels start to build up from there. I dont disagree with anything you have said, i just dont think that its a 6-4.

"Kenshi gets 33% from a reversal/wakeup EX db1 but that match is still 6-4 for Raiden because he's putting his health bar on the line every time he goes for it. It's the same thing for Raiden against Johnny" Its not a 6-4 because raiden can punish a punishable move.

@infamy23

This matchup might be 5-5 or 6-4, neutral game is dominated by d4 and after a d4 hits, we get a free f3rc~f3rc/114skrc~114, and once they respect that, your free to close distance with f3.

But im a bit suprise by the A list chart, i dont agree with a lot of the MU´s there.

 

[TackyHaddock]

Bo juitsu has better armor and meterless damage, but Shaolin is better in almost every other category. Zoning, anti zoning, chip damage, safer mixups, gets out of the corner kinda for free

u should play shaolin in tourney, would be sick!

 

[Tharr]

Hellfire Scorpion only loses to KLao, Summoner Quan and Shinnok? Would never have thought that from reading their forums.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Not bad for Sub Zero, but...

I think he beats Sonya instead of losing to her.
I think he loses to Kenshi instead of going even.
I think he beats Johnny Cage as it's not so hard to keep him out with clone.

In my chart I had a lot of the 5-5s going 6-4 or 4-6. But pretty close.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

Not bad for Sub Zero, but...

I think he beats Sonya instead of losing to her.
I think he loses to Kenshi instead of going even.
I think he beats Johnny Cage as it's not so hard to keep him out with clone.

In my chart I had a lot of the 5-5s going 6-4 or 4-6. But pretty close.

you agree with a 5-5 for F/T?
I also think he goes even with or beats sonya.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

you agree with a 5-5 for F/T?
I also think he goes even with or beats sonya.

F/T is one of the 5-5s I had as 4-6 but I'm not really scared of F/T. Just gotta play a little more rushdown and use less clones.

You can see my chart in the Sub Zero Grandmaster Guide in the Sub forums.

 

[DET_BLAKEANATOR]

You have kitana lao 6-4 then you have kitana lao 5-5 the other spot. Needs to be fixed

 

[RiBBz22]

Hellfire Scorpion only loses to KLao, Summoner Quan and Shinnok? Would never have thought that from reading their forums.

Yeah, I don't think he loses to Summoner so great point.

 

[Pan1cMode]

I play this match up heavily, since the release of the game with @Ecodus. So this would be MoS vs Full auto.
Ermac does not really care about her guns. He has tools around it. Teleport, levitate... soul ball trades are always in his favor.
Lift punishes normal gun at certain ranges, and punishes ex guns close enough into full combo.
When comparing the anti air game, he gets way more damage and follow ups out of an anti air then she does.
When comparing their armor, he has a safe get out of jail card and jacqui doesn't. She gets punished for using hers if blocked.
Her wake up game is weaker then his, he just needs a hard knockdown when he touches her, or keep her standing with soulball and continue the pressure.
Their damage game is about even midscreen, ermac might edge her out by a few % or so. Corner he has more damage and without meter.
So in the neutral when gun is nullified, she can weave in and out and look for an opening. But if she would like to get in, she generally has to use kara-cancels which she commits to. Ermac can poke her out of these with his 6 frame D1. Which then leads to his pressure since he is +10 on hit.
Up close after most of Ermac strings, he can pretty much get a free D1 check since she has nothing fast enough. Same thing goes to get out of her pressure. His D1 is faster then anything she has. If Jacqui is respecting the D1, she can't armor when Ermac does this because she whiffs and flies past him, leading to a full combo punish. If she sits there respecting D1 in situations, then he can go into other pressures.

Not saying he bodies her, it does feel even a lot of the time but that is probably because of the person playing her and not actually jacqui.
So I'd say he edges her out slightly, resulting in a 6-4.

EDIT: I have been informed, that jacqui can use her BF2 MB to armor as well. But I still feel the same after adding this to the write up. I don't feel this move alone will change it being 6-4.

Everything you posted is true, but I feel her up close pressure game with ex rockets edges this MU as being even.

Honestly, if you want to say Kitana, Scorpion and Cassie are 4-6, then there is just no way that Ermac is. This MU just feels so much easier.

In terms of getting in, her run is actually incredibly fast, she doesn't really need to commit to Lara cancels if she spaces things out nicely. She can't still get decent meterless damage without full stamina bar.

As for the wakeup game, meaty df2 beats all his wakeups so it's not as free as you make it out to be.
@Ecodus do you believe this is 4-6 Ermac's favour?

 

[Dja_Homies]

Who made the A-List matchup chart? It's far what I think.

Yomi opinion / A-list player opinion

Hollywood : 5-5 / 4-6
D'vorah : 5-5 / 4-6
Ermac : 5-5 / 4-6
Kitana: 5-5 / 4-6
Jaquie: 6-4 / 5-5
Kung Lao: 5-5 / 3-7, maybe 4-6
Liu Kang (flame fist): 5-5 / 4-6
Liu Kang (dragon fire): 5-5 / 3-7
Mileena : 6-4 / 4-6
Predator Hunter: 4-6 / 5-5, maybe 6-4
Raiden : 6-4 / 5-5
Sub-Zero : 4-6 / 3-7
Tanya : 5-5 / 3-7
Tremor : 5-5 / 6-4
Kano (cyber) : 5-5 / 4-6

How can you seriously think he loses to mileena?.............. LOL

 

[Asodimazze]

How can you seriously think he loses to mileena?.............. LOL

Yes her hitbox is too much of a problem, you can rely only on f24, d2 and f3. All the other move have a high risk of whiffing and this fucks up johnny's pressure very much.

Mileena can also punish Ex nutpunch for great damage very consistently without meter, and this hurts.

Johnny can't throw out forceballs without getting punished on reaction, he is forced to spend some stamina to approach mileena avoiding while avoiding her projectiles and this weakens his pressure after he manages to catch her.

I believe that if Mileena plays this mu defensively and with patience, it is in her favour.

 

[Juggs]

I counted D'Vorah. I think she's at 169.

For Jin, it's:
Bojutsu - 160
Shaolin - 162.

If anyone can verify Shaolin, please do.

Yeah, it's really easy to miscount these, which is why I stopped. Having to recount constantly was annoying, lol.

 

[Dja_Homies]

Yes her hitbox is too much of a problem, you can rely only on f24, d2 and f3. All the other move have a high risk of whiffing and this fucks up johnny's pressure very much.

Mileena can also punish Ex nutpunch for great damage very consistently without meter, and this hurts.

Johnny can't throw out forceballs without getting punished on reaction, he is forced to spend some stamina to approach mileena avoiding while avoiding her projectiles and this weakens his pressure after he manages to catch her.

I believe that if Mileena plays this mu defensively and with patience, it is in her favour.

If you're using alist all you'll need against her is f3 since it leads to more guaranteed pressure and she has subpar normals. Don't use exnutpunch unwisely than lol. so sad that we have to play smartly when most of the stuff she does is PUNISHABLE. She has to risk getting punished for every special she does.
How do you have to spend stamina? His walk speed is decent enough to be patient. You're probably being impatient. Sais aren't even that terrifying lol. Just walk in and block low from a distance.
Honestly the pressure isn't needed in this mu since most of the time you're waiting for them to make the mistake. The same appeals to Johnny. If you play.This mu patiently and with defense you'll win. Clearly you aren't playing this mu patiently since you're using stamina to get in and seem terrified of her sais. You can just simply walk in she doesn't have bone shaper gun speed on her sais lol.

 

[zaf]

Everything you posted is true, but I feel her up close pressure game with ex rockets edges this MU as being even.
Honestly, if you want to say Kitana, Scorpion and Cassie are 4-6, then there is just no way that Ermac is. This MU just feels so much easier.
In terms of getting in, her run is actually incredibly fast, she doesn't really need to commit to Lara cancels if she spaces things out nicely. She can't still get decent meterless damage without full stamina bar.
As for the wakeup game, meaty df2 beats all his wakeups so it's not as free as you make it out to be.
@Ecodus do you believe this is 4-6 Ermac's favour?

I am used to playing against ex rockets but it's just not enough IMO. There is pushback, so if you want to go for a 50/50, it generally has to be the overhead. For the low you would need to run in. I do understand that running in creates the illusion that you are going for the low, but can still do an overhead to mix up. I just don't feel this is strong enough to make a match up even, when ermac beats her at other various aspects of the match up. She also needs to have meter to be able to do this, and sorry but Jacqui is not shinnok or cassie where they always have meter. She can make decent meter by feinting guns with up or low rockets, but they can be beaten by teleport and lift.

She can't really just run in. She can still be checked with a poke. Instant air soul ball can stop runs. NJP beats run ins. There is even lift.
I understand how guns is suppose to condition people too. If I am just sitting there crouching, waiting for a gun you can just run in.
But this is also something that she does not really excel too much at IMO. Her offense can be stopped, she does not have the best range. She has to commit most of the time when going in even if it is not using the kara cancels which she can be hit out of.

 

[Altsa]

There is some inconsistency with Kitana's(RS) matchups

Kitana vs Jacqui 5-5 ------- Jacqui vs Kitana 4-6

Kitana vs Kung Jin(Bojutsu) 6-4 ------- Kung Jin(bojutsu) vs Kitana 5-5

Kitana vs Kung Jin(Shaolin 5-5 ------- Kung Jin(Shaolin) vs Kitana 4-6

Kitana vs Kung Lao 6-4 ------ Kung Lao vs Kitana 5-5

Kitana vs Predator (His Qui) 4-6 ------- Predator(His Qui) vs Kitana 5-5

Kitana vs Quan Chi(Summoner) 5-5 ------- Quan Chi(Summoner) vs Kitana 6-4

Kitana vs Shinnok 5-5 ------- Shinnok vs Kitana 6-4

Kitana vs Takeda 6-4 ------- Takeda vs Kitana 5-5

Kitana vs Kano 5-5 -------- Kano vs Kitana 4-6

Should be everything

@YOMI REO

 

[Yoaks]

Yes her hitbox is too much of a problem, you can rely only on f24, d2 and f3. All the other move have a high risk of whiffing and this fucks up johnny's pressure very much.

Mileena can also punish Ex nutpunch for great damage very consistently without meter, and this hurts.

Johnny can't throw out forceballs without getting punished on reaction, he is forced to spend some stamina to approach mileena avoiding while avoiding her projectiles and this weakens his pressure after he manages to catch her.

I believe that if Mileena plays this mu defensively and with patience, it is in her favour.

Mileena can only punish ex nutpunch in Piercing.

Can't throw out forceballs? Yes you can. Stop being so predictable. Bait her. She has to take risks to open you up. Your normals and pokes are light years ahead of hers. Once you knock her down. Bully the ever living fuck outta her.