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YOMI LIVING MATCH UP CHART (FIRST DRAFT) v1.0 - 7-2-15 Tremor Patch

Also interested to know who's playing Jacqui, or was it more of a 'fill in the blanks' type thing?
We have a Jacqui here in ATL but otherwise there aren't that many Jacqui's to play "unless we went online". However, we definitely understand the character well and from watching footage of dab and etc. Are able to form opinions on her matchups.
 
Kotal Kahn doesn't beat Goro.

KW beats Sun god 7-3, Blood god 7-3 and War god 6-4. I've played this matchup extensively offline for a few months.
Saltface is a really good goro and DJT a really good kotal so at the least we can get them to play it out vs each other.
 

Asodimazze

https://twitter.com/AlfioZacco
Interesting. Well for Cage v raiden: Cages d4 is a nightmare for raiden as it ducks under his wakeups "besides thunder tackle and his flying upper move at times" and controls the space very well. Added with that, Cage can zone raiden to build meter and force him to have to either use ex tackle or allow Cage to build tons of meter. Added with those two main things, Cage can pressure raiden and blow up ex shocker attmepts with d4 then punish him accordingly. I would like to see how digit and dizzy would do against denzell as that is who I get my cage xp from when using tgod raiden.
Jax v Cage: same thing with Cage's d4 being a big issue and forcing Jax to utilize his f3 (which is unsafe so he has to cancel it "in heavy weapons only of course"). Doing this keeps f2 from being a go to option for Jax and nullifies his zoning since Cage can just d4 under his projectile to hold a life lead and chill. Both characters have good pressure so they go back and forth in that regard. Another key thing is if jax does anything reactable by ex shadow kick, that is an easy way for Cage to corner Jax and force him to use armor or find a way out. Jax has to be fairly close to armor thru Cages zoning and that is an issue. Denzell hasnt been able to play tyrant as much but maybe in the future they can get some sets in this matchup
Cage vs Raiden is one of the matchup in which I have more experience, but is not in Cage favour. I would say 5-5. A few points:

1) Cage d4 does really well against Raiden, but Raiden can beat it with f4 on a read, or space it right and punish with superman.
I also want to add that from what I know almost every d4 and d3 in the game beats Raiden wake ups except EX flying upper and EX superman, simply because EX DB2 and EX DF2 are highs. This is a weakness that every character can exploit, not just Johnny.

2) A-List Johnny CAN'T zone Raiden at all, you're very wrong about this. Maybe you don't know, but against forceball Raiden can just use superman on reaction. You don't need to burn a bar, just go for normal superman and you'll fly under the fireball even if your input was pretty late. It works all the time, just try it...

3) Cage can do well against Raiden upclose, but this has nothing to do with the fact that he can duck under his highs...this can be done by any character. He does well because Raiden hitbox is pretty big so he doesn't whiff much, and there are setups in which Raiden reversal df2 ex will get beat by Cage 12. Johnny can put up a decent pressure on Raiden.

I would like to test this match against @Nivek online on ps4 if we have a good connection, maybe recording some games too
 
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STK

Beso de Muerte + Fantasía Oscura
How are you liking ninjitsu scorpion? I think it's better than hellfire now. Do you agree?
I dont get what makes ninjitsu special now? And where is all this JC talk coming from? I have yet to see JC smash any of the character everyone saying he doesn't lose to?
 

jmt

Noob
Shinnok is fine. You guys saying hes broken is ridiculous. I dont think he beats jax (wrestler), Sonya. Kitana is even. Tanya is probably even to. Liu kang probably is 6-4 maybe 5-5 vs DF. Shinnok beating HQT is a stretch. I can see that match up being difficult for Shinnok. Hes similar to Kenshi in MK9 imo. Competes with the top tier but destroys the shitters. Just buff the shitters.

IMO Sonya loses to Tanya/Cassie/F/T. HQT could potentially be really bad as well. 6-4 vs QC (both var). 6-4 vs Scorpion. 6-4 vs Sub. 6-4 vs Jax. 5-5 vs Shinnok
She definitely loses to Cassie
 

Ecodus

I ain't got time to bleed.
Everything you posted is true, but I feel her up close pressure game with ex rockets edges this MU as being even.

Honestly, if you want to say Kitana, Scorpion and Cassie are 4-6, then there is just no way that Ermac is. This MU just feels so much easier.

In terms of getting in, her run is actually incredibly fast, she doesn't really need to commit to Lara cancels if she spaces things out nicely. She can't still get decent meterless damage without full stamina bar.

As for the wakeup game, meaty df2 beats all his wakeups so it's not as free as you make it out to be.
@Ecodus do you believe this is 4-6 Ermac's favour?
I do think it is 4-6 in Ermac's favour. I see what you're saying about the ex up rocket, its nice that it always hits on block and gives us a lot of frames, but I don't think it makes up for the control that Ermac has on Jacqui. Especially seeing as Jacqui uses her meter to get the big easy dmg that is one of her strengths, using it on a blocked f12 is strong, but not something you can do all the time. Guns are risky against him and because of the way he is designed, any kind of trade is massively in the master of souls favour. Cross up jumps are pretty free on Jacqui because of Ermac's j2 (he can combo off his toes) Ermac out damages Jacqui, and he can put her into vortex if he so chooses. They have similar footsies, but the poking/counter poking game is pretty abysmal for Jacqui. Dealing with a 6 frame d1 that outranges both Jacqui's d1 and her d3 makes his stagger pressure on b12 and f34 very frustrating. One thing Jacqui does well vs Ermac is punish him hard for his unsafe stuff. As for guns being a meaty answer for Ermac's wake ups, well I guess you aren't wrong, but I don't think that plays that much of a factor. If I'm shooting meaty guns at Ermac on KD where am I getting myself? Tiny dmg and +8 on hit, or some chip and being negative on block. Where as if I'm off at all and he teleports I get owned by full combo, or good dmg and vortex, or if he delays and ducks the guns, then he can lift, run in and pressure ect.

I don't think there is a coorlation between the Ermac MU and the Cassie and Kitana one. Like saying that if Cassie is a 4-6 means Ermac is a 5-5 makes no sense to me. Ermac beats her, but she has tools and ways to beat him, same with Cassie. She beats her, but not so badly that everything she does gets shutdown.

I'm at work and wrote this from my phone, so I hope everything makes sense.
 
Yes her hitbox is too much of a problem, you can rely only on f24, d2 and f3. All the other move have a high risk of whiffing and this fucks up johnny's pressure very much.

Mileena can also punish Ex nutpunch for great damage very consistently without meter, and this hurts.

Johnny can't throw out forceballs without getting punished on reaction, he is forced to spend some stamina to approach mileena avoiding while avoiding her projectiles and this weakens his pressure after he manages to catch her.

I believe that if Mileena plays this mu defensively and with patience, it is in her favour.
I'm personally going to blow you up on this. You're spreading misinformation and you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Especially if you're A-List, all you need to do is walk in patiently, and use F3. You can bait her attacks well as Johnny, and she's put in massive pressure. Mileena has to even take more risks to attack Johnny, and every option either leads to nothing, or being full combo punished into a standing reset, then back to the pressure Mileena can't do shit about.

If you really think Mileena defensively is viable, or that Mileena wins vs Johnny Cage, I'm sorry but you're absolutely wrong and prolly shooting force balls point blank.
 

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
Interesting. Well for Cage v raiden: Cages d4 is a nightmare for raiden as it ducks under his wakeups "besides thunder tackle and his flying upper move at times" and controls the space very well. Added with that, Cage can zone raiden to build meter and force him to have to either use ex tackle or allow Cage to build tons of meter. Added with those two main things, Cage can pressure raiden and blow up ex shocker attmepts with d4 then punish him accordingly. I would like to see how digit and dizzy would do against denzell as that is who I get my cage xp from when using tgod raiden.
Jax v Cage: same thing with Cage's d4 being a big issue and forcing Jax to utilize his f3 (which is unsafe so he has to cancel it "in heavy weapons only of course"). Doing this keeps f2 from being a go to option for Jax and nullifies his zoning since Cage can just d4 under his projectile to hold a life lead and chill. Both characters have good pressure so they go back and forth in that regard. Another key thing is if jax does anything reactable by ex shadow kick, that is an easy way for Cage to corner Jax and force him to use armor or find a way out. Jax has to be fairly close to armor thru Cages zoning and that is an issue. Denzell hasnt been able to play tyrant as much but maybe in the future they can get some sets in this matchup
Cages d4 is among the best in the game i will happily admit, but Raiden vs d4 is tough to say as the match is often played at range 0 after the initial neutral game, which can go either way. Raiden wont get to wake up because of nutpunch so d4 isnt huge there, and he doesnt need to armour to get off the floor anyway as he has decent pokes and normals to defend with. If im gonna abuse d4 to blow out raidens shocker then he has other armoured options that d4 doesnt beat. Same in any matchup though cage can just block to blow up armour, same as he would d4 raiden. Cage has slow pokes and d4 loses up close as he cant get low quick enough, so when raidens on the attack you are generally stuck in the corner trying to put a d1 or EX in the right place like everyone else, while raiden can build meter safely and has a good 50/50 restand. Momentum swings in the matchup instantly though and both characters have to blow armour or read to get out of each others pressure so I dont think cage has a big advantage at all in this matchup. He doesnt lose by any means, but d4 isnt enough to swing the matchup in his favour when raiden does his thing.

Jax f212 is not something cage really cares about if jax is trying to approach with it because of d4 but still has to respect it because of the range, if cage whiffs anything hes either blocking a f2 and being staggered/frame trapped or it hits and hes going in the corner where jax is mad. Jax can also open anyone up with his strings and mixups, his d12 is good fast option close up and his damage is crazy from anything that hits or he armours through near the corner. Its a tough matchup for both parties, and i think either of them can get the advantage from a touch and keep it. Sometimes 1 good read could turn into you being cornered and losing, i would have never put this as cage advantage but he doesnt lose it. SD Cage i like a tiny bit more for this matchup, you can run more in neutral without crippling your pressure when you get in lol, i see it as even though, jax is scary.
 

Asodimazze

https://twitter.com/AlfioZacco
I'm personally going to blow you up on this. You're spreading misinformation and you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Especially if you're A-List, all you need to do is walk in patiently, and use F3. You can bait her attacks well as Johnny, and she's put in massive pressure. Mileena has to even take more risks to attack Johnny, and every option either leads to nothing, or being full combo punished into a standing reset, then back to the pressure Mileena can't do shit about.

If you really think Mileena defensively is viable, or that Mileena wins vs Johnny Cage, I'm sorry but you're absolutely wrong and prolly shooting force balls point blank.
I beat Mileena much more than I lose to her, my take on the matchup is not related to what my results are.
I think that Mileena is extremely downplayed, she is better than most people think. I don't see many risks in her pressure thanks to the option selects...she doesn't get punished often. Against A-list (whose pressure is not so amazing compared to the best pressure characters, every character can deal with his pressure honestly) her defensive options are quite good too thanks to her hitbox and her ex roll.
 

Yoaks

A spaceman
I beat Mileena much more than I lose to her, my take on the matchup is not related to what my results are.
I think that Mileena is extremely downplayed, she is better than most people think. I don't see many risks in her pressure thanks to the option selects...she doesn't get punished often. Against A-list (whose pressure is not so amazing compared to the best pressure characters, every character can deal with his pressure honestly) her defensive options are quite good too thanks to her hitbox and her ex roll.
Her option selects... are safe?

I'm sorry but you don't even know what your talking about dude.
 
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Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
I dont get what makes ninjitsu special now? And where is all this JC talk coming from? I have yet to see JC smash any of the character everyone saying he doesn't lose to?
Well they took out the scaling on b2 in the last patch which increases his damage to 34% meterless off a f2 or b2. This variation was probably the least explored as well due to hellfire being so good and everyone thinking inferno was op. His footsie game is very strong, up close he does rely a lot on grabs but one bad attempt at escaping a grab leads to big damage into a standing reset. He has great armor breaking capability and an awesome NJP.
 

Dja_Homies

Kaz...... I'm already a Fiddle.
I beat Mileena much more than I lose to her, my take on the matchup is not related to what my results are.
I think that Mileena is extremely downplayed, she is better than most people think. I don't see many risks in her pressure thanks to the option selects...she doesn't get punished often. Against A-list (whose pressure is not so amazing compared to the best pressure characters, every character can deal with his pressure honestly) her defensive options are quite good too thanks to her hitbox and her ex roll.
Some of her option selects have gaps such as the f44 which is her main low starter. F234 os leaves her at -9ish which is basically a f3 after. B22 os has a gap in everything but piercing which leaves her at. How can you even say that alist pressure isn't that good when you're left plus on most things lol. What do you want with that a low starter so Johnny has true 50/50 pressure?
Mileena isn't extremelydownplayed at all. You're EXTREMELY downplaying Johnny lmao. You downplay worse than me when I'm trolling people saying that Johnny is bad. Look out guys mileena has a ex roll that is very easy to punish if you block it correctly. Yeah her hitbox is good imagine how much worse she would be if her roll didn't low profile lmao I can't believe you said there isn't much risk to mileena and than you mentioned one of her most punishable moves which is ex roll as a great defensive option. I'm sorry dude but stop spreading tons of misinformation. This is why I avoid these discussionsbecause I get a headache reading them. One of the only johnnys I mainly agree with is @smokey I'm glad he's posting smart and knowledgeable stuff.
 

SEV

Noob
A lot of this seems to be made with bias of how they view the characters there; e.g. saying Goro loses all but two match ups, and not having any numbers for DF Liu Kang(even though no one plays it there, I highly doubt the YOMI crew is playing with and against all the characters they did list at the highest level for the numbers to be accurate).
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
I think it is just below hellfire, but yeah I am loving it tbh. Great damage, footsies, and etc. Does better in some matchups then hellfire so it is for sure viable. The thing that makes me give hellfire the edge mainly is flame aura, that move is scorpions best across his variations for sure. But who knows, another change to ninjutsu or some new tech may change my mind.
My main issue with hellfire now is his lack of range. I feel Scorpions biggest weaknesses is that it can be tough to escape pressure. He does have a good d1 but his armor risk reward isn't that great. Takedown costs a bar, only does 14% and is heavily punishable. It's not THAT bad but I consider it one of his weaker areas. I feel Ninjitsu helps that weakness with his excellent range and ability to keep people out of his face. People respect that space in front of Scorpion when he has that f2 option.

I do agree about flame aura being the best part about Hellfire. I still play a lot of Hellfire but I feel more comfortable with Ninjitsu in a lot of match ups. Normally I use Hellfire in matches where the character can reliably punish f2 consistently. Match ups really do play a big part in which variation I pick now.
 

haketh

Noob
Saltface is a really good goro and DJT a really good kotal so at the least we can get them to play it out vs each other.
I'm probably not worth spit but I gotta concur with Qwark, Goro wrecks Kotal in that MU I play it with Illusions a fair amount.