Leaving this type of garbage in the game is what will cause its deathconstantly patching this game bc everyone who sucks at it gotta complain will cause this games death. Mark my words.
Ok then don't say "he needs it to win"I'd just like to point out that the "Cyrax doesn't need it to win" argument doesn't make a bit of sense; that statement is completely meaningless.
Are you insane, Cyrax DOES need that to win a match. The command grab patch hurt him really bad. He needs these resets, no question about it. He has some of the slowest normals in the game, Horrible pokes, terrible anti air and wakeup game, an EXTREMELY techable command grab, he can't zone well since his bombs can be "hopped" and the hit box on his Net SUCKS. You can jump those nets with your eyes closed, no kidding. Did I mention that his ex moves are a waste of meter? Especially his ex ragdoll. It's a low hit you know but it sucks really bad. Poor Cyrax, what they've done to him. NRS should be ashamed of themselves, they've nerfed and will continue nerfing a "perfectly balanced" char.Leaving this type of garbage in the game is what will cause its death
1. He also can win even if his damage was nerfed.1. He CAN win without them. Definitely. BnB's all over + 1 Meter 60% = no need for unfuckwithable reset options, at least the 2'nd Net ones. Bomb juggling is cool. Cyrax Plinko FTW.
2. The 1'st minute & change of that video - the Command Bombtraps - has already been patched out, if not more.
3. Breaker. Have to save as much Meter as humanly possible against him. Unless you have the means to outzone him. Which many do.
Just like when the Bombtrap got axed, everyone thought he was done for, and the Lab kept churning out results - if they ever did do away with the resets, as long as he could still keep his BnB's intact, he'd still be a winner. He's the Leaky Boat - always more holes to be found. Yes .
But you ARE a robophile...Also, for the record, I DON'T PLAY CYRAX.
lol, I've always told people the human versions were cooler. That was a mind fuck moment in story mode.But you ARE a robophile...
This. This right here. This is the argument that we keep seeing; would Cyrax be S tier without that shit? Probably not. Big whoop. How many tournaments has CD Jr won with an S tier character? None.If you don't think he will be top tier without the resets, and then I guess cyrax wasn't meant to be top tier.
Because he definitely wasn't meant to have ridiculous inescapable resets.
As far as wether he NEEDS the resets or not there's really no way to know except for LEAVING THE GAME ALONE and letting things play out. Theory Kombat discussions are fine and entertaining but I have not heard a single argument against the resets that is theoretically so sound that justifies the nerfs. Fact remains that this character hasnt been on a non stop international winning streak because of the resets, so there is no hard evidence AT ALL.Cross-posting this because I want some feedback.
Can a knowledgeable Cyrax player enlighten me why Cyrax needs an inescapable 65% reset that requires only one bar of meter to pull off? While you're at it, can you also explain why it's absolutely necessary that Cyrax be allowed 2 ex bomb launchers, 2 normal bombs, AND 2 nets all in one combo (as evidenced by Check's 103% video)?
So far I've heard "because it's hard for Cyrax to get in due to his absent low mix-up game and slow normals!! and just use a breaker!!1" First of all, I would have believed that he has trouble getting in if all of his normals were molasses-tier slow, but they're not (in fact, his 3, 3 string is very fast, arguably as fast as Scorpion's). And second of all, so what? Ermac's offense has a hard time for the exact same reason, you know why? Because his entire playstyle revolves around baiting the opponent into not blocking so he can catch them in a stupidy high damage combo.
Did you ever stop and think for a minute that maybe Cyrax isn't supposed to be all that great in close because he's supposed to bait the opponent into JUMPING, hence all of his anti-air capabilities? His bombs, anti-air special, his net, b+2 overhead, even the neutral jump punch; all are tools designed for players who are especially good at reading when their opponent will jump and capitalizing on it.
So basically damage (and the ammount of meter spent to deal it) and AA capabilities determine wether a character is OP? how about wakeup game? or zoning? or anti zoning? or normals? or ammount of bad matchups? or ammount of good matchups? or armored moves? or mobility? or mixups? or meter building capabilities? or XRay?You Cyrax players should be debating one of two things: high damage combos with no resets, or low damage combos with resets abound. You don't get to have amazing anti-air capabilities, high damage with low meter, and inescapable resets in one package and still be able to call him a "balanced character".
Im already prepared for this if it does happenJax's (if you give him a proper tool for midscreen damage) damage exploits need to go.
I always thought a Nut punch was pretty conventionalHe's just as punishable as anybody else, just not in a conventional manner.
If its dirty you want then give jax plus 4 frames on all his specials, why not just turn jax into fei long try to poke and get crushedGive characters with no dirt some dirt. If the game gets dirty enough, maybe Il pick it up again.
Its only cause hes black, that defining colour give's him complete control over the "catch you in the corner" country "then kill you" citynone of that dirty stuff leads to 100%combos...except for maybe jax.
and thats why people are complaining about cyrax...not so much for jax, not sure why. but still.
wort statement ever for a fighting gameThe results so far? Cyrax doesnt dominate neither the high level scene nor the online scene.
NRS trying to remove it from the game 3 times isn't enough evidence that it's not supposed to be there? Granted they failed, but it wasn't intentional.As far as wether he NEEDS the resets or not there's really no way to know except for LEAVING THE GAME ALONE and letting things play out. Theory Kombat discussions are fine and entertaining but I have not heard a single argument against the resets that is theoretically so sound that justifies the nerfs. Fact remains that this character hasnt been on a non stop international winning streak because of the resets, so there is no hard evidence AT ALL.
Im not defending a cheap strategy and I don't want Cyrax to be OP (I doubt Maxter or THTB want that either) What Im saying is that people need to be more humble when preseting their arguments. Anything can be discussed in a civilized manner, but when players call other players "scrubs" or "idiots" because they disagree with their theory fighting arguments things just get silly. People will be discouraged to participate in tournaments if a character is stupid OP and keeps winning tournaments... I just dont think this is the case here at all and I also think arguments against nerfs need to be at least considered without everyone getting so emotional about something that isnt as black and white as some people make it out to be.defending a cheap strategy or tech is just dumb yet popular on these boards
because tournament numbers (which will keep the scene up - live and psn are both unplayed deserted fails) will quickly fall to zero if players are disencouraged to partecipate
obviously it will not be entirely cyrax's fault but still..
Is it unintended by NRS? yes, does that mean its game breaking? I dont know and I feel its worth discussing. NRS failed and succeded in many things, and they couldnt possibly prepare for all possible outcomes of such a large scale game. Hence the patching; but then we have to talk about patching policy which is another matter all together. Was KL spin nerf proof that the move was OP (hence not intentional)? I dont think so. I rather go by tournament results and high level player consensus than on whether it was intentionally put there or not. My personal opinion? let the game breathe a little and let the chips fall where they may... then patch.NRS trying to remove it from the game 3 times isn't enough evidence that it's not supposed to be there? Granted they failed, but it wasn't intentional.
Cyrax is good in many of those categories. NRS had to patch this game or else it was going to die fast. I don't believe that many people were willing to stomach unescapable command grab resets, 80% combos from Kung Lao and prepatch dagger cancels from Scarlet just to name a few.Each of these categories is complex and needs to be cross referenced with the ENTIRE cast to even begin to attempt a full analysis of game balance. It is in fact so complex that in some cases it may prove impossible to determine by theoretical discussion alone... so the answer is to let the game play out, an observe the results.
The results have little to do with a good a character is and more importantly, it has nothing to do with unintentional, unescapable resets that can go as high as 103% off of a jip.The results so far? Cyrax doesnt dominate neither the high level scene nor the online scene.
you forgot who started this thread is cd jr brother? btw rain vs kabal is a good matchup in favor of rain really because of armor kick and descent teleport ,that helped cd jr to win a major against warda who only used kabal, jr was beaten by warda at wcg tournament before cd jr could find the abusive hit boxes jax had and frame advantage on every normal, 2nd of all jax is not low tier he is s and might be the best on this game after the last 4 major buffs, cyrax is not better tier than jax anymore, and he is not even top 5 you will see what happen to cyraxes at nec and why is difficult for him to reach top 8 is not the players really there a good players using cyrax, people just make stupid match up threads and think players win because of dmg combos, or maybe some special moves, now jax now is a zoner and his hit boxes on hits are huge broken, and there is not way to get past his standing jab not even with the most precised kicks and that leads to 30%s he will land 10 of this before cyrax can land one big combo that might get broken before reaching 10% only scrubs using jax couldnt notice how good he was before crying for buffs and now jax is broken way more broken than cyrax. cyrax cant get close to him, cant get far, because jax outzoned him and projectile recovers as fast as sonya's fireball, plus ground pound cancelings, you say cd jr has won major with low tiers i know what the tiers really are, i still have the record on wins on this house and i could really make a match up thread, i have 10-0 cd jr chars couple of time and not with cyrax, but zub zero sektor, an saibot, cd jr is a good player but he knows how broken jax is right now and they should have nerver buffed him again just remove his f4,1,3 bug he could keep his reset thats no broken, i don't find dmg related things on this game broken, sub zero had to keep his reset also, this game lacks dmg now on defensive players because of i diots asking for nerfs nerfs nerfs. never put cd jr on this topics, remember on this house we have a lot of hours put into this game and we used most of the cast and know what we are talking about, i wont give reason for resets to stay or go, but if u read this thread it wasn't about resets but how incompetent nrs is nerfing cyrax abilities to avoid bomb loops because they cant find a better solution or dont have the expertise to reprogram the game.Look, I don't think anyone can argue that getting 75% out of one meter is stupid, because it is. The whole argument of "Well, as long as you have breaker you'll be okay!" What a bunch of crap. That means that I can be chipped out 15%, make one mistake, and be instantly destroyed. At least with Jax he has to capitalize in the corner, Cyrax gets that off a JIP.
I have no problem with resets, but c'mon, 75% is just excessive and ridiculous off a 1 bar midscreen...
This. This right here. This is the argument that we keep seeing; would Cyrax be S tier without that shit? Probably not. Big whoop. How many tournaments has CD Jr won with an S tier character? None.
Uh, I consider consistent 2nd and 3rd place finishes in tournaments filled with the best players in the country to mean...YES, he 100% dominates.Ok i'll bite
Cyrax doesnt dominate neither the high level scene nor the online scene.
The CD bros do have a teensie weensie advantage...they're all skilled players in the same household and VSM is close by on top of it all.Key words, filled with the best players. And 3 of those best players, are Maxter and his brothers. Lol, put a Scrub in that situation with Cyrax, he'll come last.