will nrs keep breaking cyrax?

[Sao87]

I don't think that's a safe jump buddy. If he can wake up, he can hit you. You may confuse the opponent of their wake up timing. Definition of safe jump = they'll still get hit if they wake up. Example: kitana's cutter after hit, mileena teleport kick, cyrax command grab... That combo's not even 55 percent p. Of course, I'll go home and test it for myself but in theory that's not a safe jump.

Ok, write back after you've tested it please.

 

[shura30]

Cyrax without the resets would be a really lacking Cyrax, really.

really dude?really?

cyrax has some bomb setups that can catch opponents any time baiting and forcing mistakes

right now his plus is the retarded damage he should not get off unescapable bomb/net
if just with a 50% 1 stock combo cyrax will be good enough with his other tools

other characters (well, the ones without retarded shit that must go too) have a retaliation cap set at 40% max
why cyrax should win the round off a single opponent mistake?

Again, damage aside, his attributes as a character are not stellar by any means, and getting the damage is problematic not only due to difficulties opening up, but also because of breakers in general.

his net, beside winning each projectile trade, keep the opponent stuck for a time i'm worried sooner or later someone will come up with nasty meter building strategies
an early breaker mean that the next net = dead


reading these threads is a waste of time, i don't know why players don't want to get rid of all of the dumb damage/broken stuff on top of nothing concrete

 

[Sao87]

reading these threads is a waste of time, i don't know why players don't want to get rid of all of the dumb damage/broken stuff on top of nothing concrete

It's like this on every competitive forum.

You have casual players and tournament players. At some point the casual players get smart enough to hang with tournament players in competitive discussion.

The issue with this is that the casual players don't have a tournament attendees perspective. So things like 80-90% resets seem ok to them because they perceive it as difficult or something they spent time learning.

The tournament players see it as an issue because we spend HUNDREDS of dollars to travel around the world to compete in an atmosphere where two games can decide whether or not you go home or progress in the tournament.

If the casual players actually put something on the line they would understand why tournament players push so hard for balance. The thought of getting randomed out by something that is considered a broken mechanic by most tournament players is demotivating which makes people like me want to move on to other games.

I will lose to bomb resets all night in a casual setting with a smile on my face. I will look like this ant: if I lose to it at an event like Evo.

 

[Embarq85]

And how much can NW do with one bar?

Almost 50% ya? Maybe more if lightning is guaranteed. I don't play him to know about the lightning deal.

 

[shura30]

You have casual players and tournament players. At some point the casual players get smart enough to hang with tournament players in competitive discussion.

i can't tell each one from the other on tym

I will lose to bomb resets all night in a casual setting with a smile on my face. I will look like this ant: if I lose to it at an event like Evo.

i think we should have a pic out of chris's face after SB
but this could be a different subject
because if you enter mk as it is now you will mostly get beaten from some 'omg new tech that will pun x/y in S+++++++++ tier'

but i't ok at some point because there's money on the line

it will not be okay when no one will bet over on 103% inescapable reset

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Cannot believe people are defending resets and acting as if he has bad normals or whatever. Considering he has some of the fastest normals in the game and even without his resets he has the most damage in the game ON TOP of having some of the best pokes in the game.

Look at the character closely. Even without his massive damage resets he is still miles ahead of so many other characters in this game.

- You cant jump at him because of AA throw is the perfect anti air
- He has nearly total screen control
- Good standing 1 for anti air
- A command grab the leads to a safe jump
- So many special mid hitting normals
- Sick pokes, long reaching and quick with all of them
- Biggest damage
- A teleport incase you managed to catch somebody in a net fullscreen
- A net with a fucking huge hitbox
- The ability to maintain pressure after a combo by planting a bomb
- All of his normals are safe, 334 is even advantage for a free D1
- ARMOURED XRAY that leads to 50% and basically acts as a parry <-- See that? He does have armour stop moaning.
- Safe overhead buzzsaw and Safe Ex ragdoll that starts as a low. That means that he gets a safe 50/50 at the end of the 121 blockstring which is a game changer when it comes down to the wire.


Now try to give many any negative points that clearly make him weaker than all of these strengths that so many characters lack. The best thing about all of this is that since the beginning of the game untill whenever his resets get removed he will only have been buffed:

- Safe buzzsaw is a major change
- Command grab is now a mixup and has major frame advantage
- On top of that while everybody else has had their damage nerfed he STILL gets 60% for 1 bar, doesnt matter that is has to be off a JIP because everybody gets their highest damage from that.

 

[KTH]

Ok, write back after you've tested it please.

Lol, I tested it. It's not a safe jump but a gimmick. It confused enemies wake up but nowhere does it beat it. People still can delay wake up or d1. P it's not a safe jump. I don't think you know the definition of safe jump. I'd be really sick if it's a true safe jump though.

Foxy
Really, you use xray as an example for armor?? to prove me wrong?? Guess what most of characters has their xray with armor. It's an obvious move for armor. Good god. P. I'm done argueing. This is a waste of my time. I'd rather spend the time i have improving my game. Foxy, you're alway right. Lol. You're god in mk. after all you beat mustard who's the best cyrax in the world in a 50 man tournament or is it 20?

 

[Sao87]

Lol, I tested it. It's not a safe jump but a gimmick. It confused enemies wake up but nowhere does it beat it. People still can delay wake up or d1. P it's not a safe jump. I don't think you know the definition of safe jump.

You recover from the teleport faster than the opponent does because they are still grounded. You can either cross them up or pressure with OTG options. What is the damage on the combo? Is Cyrax at an advantage afterwards?

I'm aware of what a safe jump is, so technically you are right. If the opponent knows how to react to this set up correctly by staggering wake up then yes it stops being a guaranteed jump in attempt. +1 internet point for you.

 

[KTH]

You recover from the teleport faster than the opponent does because they are still grounded. You can either cross them up or pressure with OTG options. What is the damage on the combo? Is Cyrax at an advantage afterwards?

I'm aware of what a safe jump is, so technically you are right. If the opponent knows how to react to this set up correctly by staggering wake up then yes it stops being a guaranteed jump in attempt. +1 internet point for you.

I'm not trying to prove you're wrong. i was hoping you were right. That'd be too sick though. It's a gimmick/shennanigan. Good to know though. Thanks. I learn something

 

[galindo]

Again, as this game evolves and players get better and more experienced, Cyrax will get worse. Nobody sees that right now because, again, nobody really knows how to fight Cyrax still.

Why do you guys think Maxter has been playing with other characters?

samethin could be said about other top tier characters.

K, Let me slow down so you can understand.

1. Which armor move does cyrax has??? Zero.

2. K, you're putting krazie names in here. So in term of competition, who do you think has better competition?? krazie or maxter??? Please do not say krazie. whether you like it or not, new york has the best competition in mk right now. Their level is higher than the rest of the region. You're losing to krazie doesn't mean cyrax is good. It just mean you don't know deal against cyrax.

3. Lol the only time i use teleport is in the combos. Maybe occasional read on predictable pattern. His teleport is one of the worst. You're talking shiz out of your ass here again.

4. cyrax poking is decent but nowhere as good compare to others. He has trouble approaching. His worst match up are super hard. Probably some of the worst match up.

1. I mystyped that

2. Well we will see come December

3. That's your style...but many times you see a projectile(that's not an iafb) you can teleport in and there's a good chance you cam catch someone with a poke. But seriously I rather have cyrax's teleport over czs, ermac, smoke.

this thread is ridiculous. i guess i should have held the community and nrs hostage after power up by saying "if you change sub-zero i am gonna quit". why is the thread even open still.....

man when I heard you talking about these I was "oh cmon tom those where only.the trolls stop saying that "....but now I see how you feel.

 

[NariTuba]

"At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid."

Friedrich Nietzsche

Thus, let him keep the resets

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

"At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid."

Friedrich Nietzsche

Thus, let him keep the resets

. Well said, Mr. Tuba.

I'm putting as much time as I can into Ermac and Raiden before NEC just because of Cyrax's shortcomings.
Yes, he has probably the highest-damaging combos in the game. He also has a teeth-grindingly difficult time putting them into practice against certain characters on high-level. Try catching a Raiden, or a Sektor, or a Mileena with a sharp eye for reading while you're trying to zone them out and lay a Net trap and see if they don't fly around you like fucking Muhammad Ali.
No, I don't play with the pros, but I've definitely spent enough time with Cyrax to know it's nowhere near as easy as it looks.

Someone please close this thread before Cy's reputation gets any worse than it already is...

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

. Well said, Mr. Tuba.

I'm putting as much time as I can into Ermac and Raiden before NEC just because of Cyrax's shortcomings.
Yes, he has probably the highest-damaging combos in the game. He also has a teeth-grindingly difficult time putting them into practice against certain characters on high-level. Try catching a Raiden, or a Sektor, or a Mileena with a sharp eye for reading while you're trying to zone them out and lay a Net trap and see if they don't fly around you like fucking Muhammad Ali.
No, I don't play with the pros, but I've definitely spent enough time with Cyrax to know it's nowhere near as easy as it looks.

Someone please close this thread before Cy's reputation gets any worse than it already is...

Thats not the point though, the fact that you're making somebody move when they dont want to is enough to start up a favourable situation. I dont see why Cyrax players are saying he has a hard time starting combos when he really doesnt. Cyrax makes people jump alot, start anti airing. If they dash alot use the D4 to lay them down into your bombs or something. So many possibilities that Cyrax players are just ignoring.

When you play against a good aggressive Cyrax your options are slim once they've got you where they need you. And even them options can be punished into another combo.

 

[DarthArma]

this thread is crazy. I guess this is what happens when I have papers due and don't go on TYM for 2 weeks.


Mustard (the condiment) is really disgusting. There's a stupid story of me flipping out when it got on my arm.




I feel at high level game play cyrax does need to do 60 percent with one bar. I personally don't like using the "unavoidable damage re scaling" mostly because I drop it when there's lots of pressure on me during a toruney. I like relying more on guess games and "avoidable" resets just because the execution is much easier.

I say cyrax needs the damage...his normals arent that great and when you put pressure on him he falls apart.

Smoke rapes him, kabal rapes him, and raiden rapes him (I think)

I don't understand out of all the BS in this game why cyrax gets picked on the most. My only guess is that the people who complain the most are the ones that dont have the match up figured out.

If he's so broken why hasn't REO picked him and won a major with him yet?¿ lol.


REO did pick him once and that didnt really work out too well for him. Granted he might have been out of practice with him or need more than just one match.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Thats not the point though, the fact that you're making somebody move when they dont want to is enough to start up a favourable situation. I dont see why Cyrax players are saying he has a hard time starting combos when he really doesnt. Cyrax makes people jump alot, start anti airing. If they dash alot use the D4 to lay them down into your bombs or something. So many possibilities that Cyrax players are just ignoring.

When you play against a good aggressive Cyrax your options are slim once they've got you where they need you. And even them options can be punished into another combo.

It's not that Cyrax doesn't have the tools, Foxy...it's just that a lot of others have the necessary tools to pick him apart, and once he runs into someone really familiar with how to counter-measure him (i.e. hopping the Bombs, Teleporting/EX Specialing through the Nets, etc.), he's got a really hard time getting his groove on. He can lay on the mustard pretty thick (man, mustard really is gross, lol), but it's definitely not a cakewalk to get the bottle open, y'know?

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

It's not that Cyrax doesn't have the tools, Foxy...it's just that a lot of others have the necessary tools to pick him apart, and once he runs into someone really familiar with how to counter-measure him (i.e. hopping the Bombs, Teleporting/EX Specialing through the Nets, etc.), he's got a really hard time getting his groove on. He can lay on the mustard pretty thick (man, mustard really is gross, lol), but it's definitely not a cakewalk to get the bottle open, y'know?

That exact same rule applies to EVERY single character in this game. So how does that make him any worse?

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

That exact same rule applies to EVERY single character in this game. So how does that make him any worse?

That's my point exactly.
I'm not saying it makes him any worse; he's top tier, no doubt, but his is not the most difficult offense/defense to get around, even in masterful hands. And he does have a major issue with the resets, but a great deal of them are pretty risky/impractical tournament-wise, either due to execution or how badly they can be punished in return should something go wrong - a drop, a breaker, giving your opponent enough meter to return-slay you, especially against say a Jax, Shang, another Cyrax...
As Mr. Rob said, it was better when everyone was a bit dirty. I miss pre-patch Sub.
My point has always been "Why is Cyrax catching the most crap?"
I would think one of the more practical mindfucks of the game you see just about every time you see the character in high level and even normal play - Kabal's NDC psychosis, Jax's corner murder, Reptile's Dash, etc. - would invoke a lot more rage than something you probably wouldn't see all that much of on a big stage, or even smaller ones to an extent. Other than Maxter/Chris G, I can't remember the last big Cyrax moment at a tournament (Idk if I'm wrong, correct me if I am), but Kabal and Jax have multiple title wins, and the most heated argument ATM is still Cyrax resets.
I'm not saying he absolutely needs them to win, he's still got many practical uses not taking insanity traps into account, but it's not like he's the only one who's still got a dirty trick up his sleeve.

 

[PND_Mustard]

this thread is still open as players are making solid arguments as to why cyrax should or shouldnt be nerfed, tweaked.

if it continues to be yet another 'cyrax is too good wah wah' thread, i will close it, and make a thread on its own where you can all do that, if it's going to keep happening may as well keep it all neat and tidy in one place.

 

[Check]

give every character the same damage.

/thread

 

[Mt. Mutombo]

this thread is crazy. I guess this is what happens when I have papers due and don't go on TYM for 2 weeks.


Mustard (the condiment) is really disgusting. There's a stupid story of me flipping out when it got on my arm.




I feel at high level game play cyrax does need to do 60 percent with one bar. I personally don't like using the "unavoidable damage re scaling" mostly because I drop it when there's lots of pressure on me during a toruney. I like relying more on guess games and "avoidable" resets just because the execution is much easier.

I say cyrax needs the damage...his normals arent that great and when you put pressure on him he falls apart.

Smoke rapes him, kabal rapes him, and raiden rapes him (I think)

I don't understand out of all the BS in this game why cyrax gets picked on the most. My only guess is that the people who complain the most are the ones that dont have the match up figured out.

If he's so broken why hasn't REO picked him and won a major with him yet?¿ lol.


REO did pick him once and that didnt really work out too well for him. Granted he might have been out of practice with him or need more than just one match.

This feels like something i would say lol... i play exactly the same way.

And lol i had a similar incident with mustard myself lmao. That shit is gross as hell.

On top of the smoke, kabal and raiden matchups i'd add mileena as well, i still think she as to be one if his worst matchups along with liu kang as well.

I don't mind people bitching about the 70%+ unavoidable resets, they have the right, it sometimes feels overwhelming. But now, if someone comes flipping at me for a completely escapable reset, im gonna lose my shit.

 

[Mt. Mutombo]

LOL i think this sums him up better.

 

[G4S KT]

Cyrax was fine pre patch.

If you get opened up for a full combo with your pants down you deserve all the damage in the world.

Like [MENTION=18]Dark_Rob[/MENTION] said: they should have left all the dirty shit in the game. Well, maybe not ALL, but definitely most of it.

 

[Hitoshura]

Cyrax was fine pre patch.

If you get opened up for a full combo with your pants down you deserve all the damage in the world.

Like [MENTION=18]Dark_Rob[/MENTION] said: they should have left all the dirty shit in the game. Well, maybe not ALL, but definitely most of it.

constantly patching this game bc everyone who sucks at it gotta complain will cause this games death. Mark my words.

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

It seems like nothing fully satisfies people. "If you dont do anything - its bad, if you try to do something - its worse"
Many char were brought down in order to have well balanced game. And Cyrax is on that list. In the worst case scenario he will be top 5.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

It seems like nothing fully satisfies people. "If you dont do anything - its bad, if you try to do something - its worse"
Many char were brought down in order to have well balanced game. And Cyrax is on that list. In the worst case scenario he will be top 5.

The biggest problem is a lot of the things that have been changed/broken/"fixed" didn't really need to be implemented in the first place.
Not to mention most of the changes were just a result of satisfying ceaseless bitching rather than for any genuinely useful purpose.
They would've done just as well making the improvements they did for, say, Noob, Baraka, Stryker & Sindel, without having to demasculate the already-strong statures of Cage, Lao, Sub, Skarlet, yadda yadda...that way, anyone looking to up their game with a "low tier" fighter could have their cake without having to shove it in the face of anyone whose main lost their footing.