KingHippo
Alternative-Fact Checker
Very nice! I apologize sir, thanks for the information.Probably some room for improvement on the corner ones, but these should give you a general idea on when and where to cash in.
Very nice! I apologize sir, thanks for the information.Probably some room for improvement on the corner ones, but these should give you a general idea on when and where to cash in.
He is plus but nothing is guaranteed. They can armour/backdash your approach, possibly poke.How plus/negative is FF Kang after cancelling windmill punch into regular SF on hit? Can he be punished or can he start up his pressure again?
So it basically resets the neutral game. Unless I do dragon kick which sets up zoning.He is plus but nothing is guaranteed. They can armour/backdash your approach, possibly poke.
Dragon Kick should beat NJP attempts. The only character I know WP on block is completely boned against is Kung Lao outside of Tempest. EX Spin will chew up whatever you attempt. Hopefully NRS will patch it so that it's at least parryable. Tempest's EX Spin all depends on the timing.Is windmill punch block pressure a bill of goods post patch?
Seems like a lot of characters have pretty good answers to it, whether it's armor, NJP, or a quick normal. Yes Liu can come out on top if he makes the right read (i.e., does a counter to beat armor), but in many matchups it seems like the guessing game it's pretty disadvantageous for Liu - the reward he gets is pretty small compared to the risk he's taking by doing wp on block.
For example, characters like Cassie, Sonya, and Takeda can neutral jump punch you for huge damage if you go for windmill punch to dragons roar. That leaves liu with only unsafe follow ups to WP, as all other specials besides ex high fireball are unsafe. Ex fireball is an ok option but costs meter, can be armored through, and isn't exactly huge damage compared to what he'll take if the opponent reads it and does armor. Another bad guessing game is tempest Lao, whose ex spin cannot be countered by Liu's special counter. As Liu, I think every single thing you do after a blocked wp gets beaten by ex spin, except ex dragons roar, which trades (occasionally wins).
Seems to me like flame fist players get away with doing wp block pressure a lot more than they should due to matchup unfamiliarity but I could be wrong. I do it a lot myself and usually feel like I'm getting away with something but maybe I'm missing something. However I suspect that the "right" way to play FF is to only do WP on hit in a lot of matchups.
Yeah dragon kick has the same problem as high fireball though - it's very unsafe (-14), making the guessing game pretty dangerous / disadvantageous for Liu. If only FF dragon kick had the same frame data as DF dragon kick...Dragon Kick should beat NJP attempts. The only character I know WP on block is completely boned against is Kung Lao outside of Tempest. EX Spin will chew up whatever you attempt. Hopefully NRS will patch it so that it's at least parryable. Tempest's EX Spin all depends on the timing.
WP overall isn't really supposed to be a pressure tool, the recent buffs, were just so that your main source of chip damage isn't completely no-two ways about it unsafe, without making him Aquaman.
It's a massive hole in people's knowledge at the minute. Zyphox got away with loads of shit at EVO for instance, even against top players.Is windmill punch block pressure a bill of goods post patch?
Seems like a lot of characters have pretty good answers to it, whether it's armor, NJP, or a quick normal. Yes Liu can come out on top if he makes the right read (i.e., does a counter to beat armor), but in many matchups it seems like the guessing game it's pretty disadvantageous for Liu - the reward he gets is pretty small compared to the risk he's taking by doing wp on block.
For example, characters like Cassie, Sonya, and Takeda can neutral jump punch you for huge damage if you go for windmill punch to dragons roar. That leaves liu with only unsafe follow ups to WP, as all other specials besides ex high fireball are unsafe. Ex fireball is an ok option but costs meter, can be armored through, and isn't exactly huge damage compared to what he'll take if the opponent reads it and does armor. Another bad guessing game is tempest Lao, whose ex spin cannot be countered by Liu's special counter. As Liu, I think every single thing you do after a blocked wp gets beaten by ex spin, except ex dragons roar, which trades (occasionally wins).
Seems to me like flame fist players get away with doing wp block pressure a lot more than they should due to matchup unfamiliarity but I could be wrong. I do it a lot myself and usually feel like I'm getting away with something but maybe I'm missing something. However I suspect that the "right" way to play FF is to only do WP on hit in a lot of matchups.
I disagree with that, the Dragon Kick option can save your ass against a lot of low hitting low-profile moves in anticipation of the parry or Dragon's Roar. You'll put yourself full screen a lot of the time and at worst make them resort to a very simmered punish.Yeah dragon kick has the same problem as high fireball though - it's very unsafe (-14), making the guessing game pretty dangerous / disadvantageous for Liu. If only FF dragon kick had the same frame data as DF dragon kick...
Yeah I agree that dragon kick will save you from the low profile moves and that is nice but it gets blown up pretty hard by simply blocking unfortunately.I disagree with that, the Dragon Kick option can save your ass against a lot of low hitting low-profile moves in anticipation of the parry or Dragon's Roar. You'll put yourself full screen a lot of the time and at worst make them resort to a very simmered punish.
It would be nice if the DF Dragon Kick was available in all variations, but alas, that's what variations are for, some things will cover some bases better than others.
Well, again, the risk/reward isn't supposed to be in your favor, your can't really expect it to be after seeping a chunk of chip out of them/building half a bar lol, it's just ways upon ways to keep them honest. Certainly more fulfilling than what it was before the special cancel buff.Yeah I agree that dragon kick will save you from the low profile moves and that is nice but it gets blown up pretty hard by simply blocking unfortunately.
Agree with @Phosferrax that it's best against opponents without meter or opponents with poor reversals (or opponents unable to njp you - that last one is a pretty big counter imo, really changes the risk reward math).
Yeah fair enough, that makes sense.Well, again, the risk/reward isn't supposed to be in your favor, your can't really expect it to be after seeping a chunk of chip out of them/building half a bar lol, it's just ways upon ways to keep them honest. Certainly more fulfilling than what it was before the special cancel buff.
Also, I'm pretty sure everyone can jump out of WP cancelled into Dragon's Roar on block. Some just have to do it forwards or backwards rather than neutral.
Incidentally, I just made one last night.Is there a list somewhere of the frame data off various fireball run cancels? That Curbo list is out of date, right?
yo i didnt know you had tym whats goodSuch as wp to buff into combos?
Haha, good shit. Yesterday I was looking for something like that and couldn't believe it didn't exist. Guess I just looked a few hours too soonIncidentally, I just made one last night.
http://testyourmight.com/threads/current-advantageous-special-cancel-strings-for-liu-kang-across-all-variations-as-of-july-2015.54785/
Press the block button right after Liu stomps on the opponent's chest.How do you ex parry in flame fist? Cant seem to figure it out
Got it! Thanks a lotPress the block button right after Liu stomps on the opponent's chest.
Explain. It's never an overhead in my exp.why is db2 sometimes a mid and sometimes an overhead?
I was just in training and it hit overhead once and then it just never hit overhead again and it was always mid. Maybe it was just my eyes playing tricks on me.Explain. It's never an overhead in my exp.