General/Other - Hellfire Hellfire Pressure Gone

[RiBBz22]

Im not the best at explaining. I was just saying mixing in different strings. Ive been seeing the word conditioning in the Scorpion thread. So if you can condition some people to get hit by a f.4 then id say you can catch em off gaurd with a 21 cancel. Thats my opinion

You condition for an overhead by making them respect a low. What are you making people respect when you mix between 21 FBC and 214 FBC. In both cases you are getting hit with 21. If you see the FBC come out after the 21 you simply poke out from what I can tell. If the 214 comes out you deal with that option. I don't see how you condition in this case.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I think hellfire is still good, of course we don't have guaranteed chip damage anymore, but that doesn't mean we can't run cancel into block and punish a blocked special for not respecting our pressure.

The only think i don't completly agree on this nerf is that now he can't do 214~tp, 214~ex tp, but that is the least of my worries, considered landing that combo it made it harder to connect a spear for a restand, now we can actually use another juggle forms and ensure the spear restand on every character.

 

[MAN0]

how do you mix in 21 cancel with 214 cancel when you can react to 21 FBC when you see the fireball come out? When you see 21 on block and they do the FBC then you just poke out on reaction. I am not understanding how you mix it up. Can someone here please explain this to me?

I see what you mean but it's very hard to react on 21fbc, you don't see any fireball coming out if you time it well.

 

[Reauxbot]

You condition for an overhead by making them respect a low. What are you making people respect when you mix between 21 FBC and 214 FBC. In both cases you are getting hit with 21. If you see the FBC come out after the 21 you simply poke out from what I can tell. If the 214 comes out you deal with that option. I don't see how you condition in this case.

Well ask @AK Smarrgasm
Trying to poke with get you lit on fire.
One of us isnt understanding the other.

not if you follow with b12. Its a mid. I agree he is probly not super top anymore. But people saying he dropped to like mid or low tier are insane.

 

[Triplswing]

I think hellfire is still good, of course we don't have guaranteed chip damage anymore, but that doesn't mean we can't run cancel into block and punish a blocked special for not respecting our pressure.

The only think i don't completly agree on this nerf is that now he can't do 214~tp, 214~ex tp, but that is the least of my worries, considered landing that combo it made it harder to connect a spear for a restand, now we can actually use another juggle forms and ensure the spear restand on every character.

214 FBC teleport beats every armored reversal that doesn't hit behind them. It also beats Cassie flipkick even though that does hit from behind. I can only think of Lao and Raiden who can hit him out of this with a reversal.

So...mixup potential is definitely still there. We just have to earn the pressure now instead of having it for free.

 

[RiBBz22]

I see what you mean but it's very hard to react on 21fbc, you don't see any fireball coming out if you time it well.

Maybe it is because I am a Scorpion player but I have no trouble reacting to it if I understand to look for 21 fbc.

 

[Juggs]

It's +7 now? Oh, I'm okay with that. He still didn't need a nerf compared to some characters, but oh well, time to grind the new changes.

 

[RiBBz22]

The big mind game now to me is going to be canceling pressure into flame aura to blow up counter-pokes.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

OMG only +7?

 

[ShotgunInsanity]

This is how I imagine the mind of some of the scorpions players complaining even though they're +7.

 

[Scoot Magee]

If you have someone in the corner 114 teleport 214 ex teleport still works.

 

[JTB123]

Guy's Scorpion will be fine, let's not pretend that Hellfire wasn't a little bit silly. I mean come on.

 

[kivatt]

Guy's Scorpion will be fine, let's not pretend that Hellfire wasn't a little bit silly. I mean come on.

I think people most got over it within the first 2 hours, and moved onto finding new stuff.

 

[Lord Beef]

Well, I am certainly glad I waited for the salt to wear off before looking at this forum. Kudos to those keeping calm and exploring the character before losing their shit. He's fine, if anything, the mind games this opens up will not only make it more fun and visceral to play, but open up more setups and baits since we're not so focused on guaranteed chip damage.

I mean...LBSH - he was pretty dumb. Let's not forget that he's still pretty damn safe on everything, just not braindead.

 

[RiBBz22]

RIP

Fixed

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Also Dave is just attention seeking. I don't think anyone actually takes him seriously at this point. In fact half the time I can't tell if he is making a valid point or trying to incite a riot out of boredom--bating unsuspecting emotionally charged TYM members.

Usually both at once -- and once you learn to see both, and see the point in what he's saying, then you realize that his input can be as valuable as it is annoying sometimes.

 

[Lord Beef]

Fixed

At first I was like

Then I was all like

 

[Scoot Magee]

I don't understand why people think scorpion can't mix anything up off of fbc. Do you guys know how frame traps work? You're at advantage and the other player has to guess what you're going to do. Usually they respect the advantage because if they press anything they'll get blown up. When you take advantage of their respect it opens up other options. I'm not going to sit here and go into detail on every possible thing you can do but mixups don't have to be just overhead and low.

 

[Smarrgasm]

@RiBBz22 if you do 21 FBC into b12 it will blow up any poke attempt if executed correctly. Then all you have to do is hitconfirm the b12 into aura or tele/spear if you already have aura on. Theres a lot of ways to mix up the pressure now to bait just about anything. 21 FBC is the new go to IMO and it has a lot of utility if you read my earlier posts in this thread.

 

[RiBBz22]

@RiBBz22 if you do 21 FBC into b12 it will blow up any poke attempt if executed correctly. Then all you have to do is hitconfirm the b12 into aura or tele/spear if you already have aura on. Theres a lot of ways to mix up the pressure now to bait just about anything. 21 FBC is the new go to IMO and it has a lot of utility if you read my earlier posts in this thread.

I was doing 21 FBC into b12 earlier before work and was able to poke out after I recorded it several times. Could be that my execution wasn't tight enough, but it seemed pretty tight. I really only had a half hour to test a lot of stuff so don't worry I will be back in the lab.

 

[Wigy]

Welcome to the club of characters who were overrated to begin with and then got unfairly nerfed as a result

This club sucks

You seem what i mean about subzero players whining about their characters getting nerfed even when its completely irrelevant.

Also this change needed to happen it was a fucking stupid mess.

Are people really saying fbc is now useless.. You're still +?!

 

[Ares_Supreme]

My only issue is the timing after 214 tp. They jacked that up to kill the second 214 but ill get used to it.

 

[yzzerdd]

Just have to git gud again. Mix up 21fbc with overheads, low, throw or block after. The 214 tele 214 ex tele was unwarranted imo.


...I guess the klassic kostume was compensation?

 

[STRYKIE]

@RiBBz22 if you do 21 FBC into b12 it will blow up any poke attempt if executed correctly. Then all you have to do is hitconfirm the b12 into aura or tele/spear if you already have aura on. Theres a lot of ways to mix up the pressure now to bait just about anything. 21 FBC is the new go to IMO and it has a lot of utility if you read my earlier posts in this thread.

Even B1 FBRC aint a bad follow up man, that in itself is +3-4 on block and gives enough hitstun to link just about anything on hit, even a crossover jumpkick.

I was doing 21 FBC into b12 earlier before work and was able to poke out after I recorded it several times. Could be that my execution wasn't tight enough, but it seemed pretty tight. I really only had a half hour to test a lot of stuff so don't worry I will be back in the lab.

HeroesNZ made a video proving 21 FBRC D3 was a true blockstring proving it to be +7. No poke should beat a B1 follow up. Git Gud yung Ribblet.

You seem what i mean about subzero players whining about their characters getting nerfed even when its completely irrelevant.

Also this change needed to happen it was a fucking stupid mess.

Are people really saying fbc is now useless.. You're still +?!

The issue wasn't the 214 FBRC going, the point was that the only way they could change it, would severely alter the 214 string in many other situations.

And it undeniably has.

 

[Wigy]

Even B1 FBRC aint a bad follow up man, that in itself is +3-4 on block and gives enough hitstun to link just about anything on hit, even a crossover jumpkick.



HeroesNZ made a video proving 21 FBRC D3 was a true blockstring proving it to be +7. No poke should beat a B1 follow up. Git Gud yung Ribblet.



The issue wasn't the 214 FBRC going, the point was that the only way they could change it, would severely alter the 214 string in many other situations.

And it undeniably has.

good.