Opinion on the what the current tiers look like

[coolwhip]

that was 4 years ago and you guys bring it like it happened yesterday.

and nothing was questionable about being frustrated when SZ in MK9 was wrongfully nerfed several times (which literally 100% of the community agreed upon) while characters doing one touch kills stay in the game.

It was supposed to be all in good fun.

That was your finest hour Tom. You might be a little crazy but you sure gave us some unforgettable moments.

 

[Inception]

finally a tier list done right.

 

[chackalacka]

I agree with the majority of the tier list. The fact there are so many characters in S+ and S tier shows there is something majorly wrong with balance in this game.

In Tekken Tag 2, there were only 3 characters considered to be S tier (Heihachi, Devil Jin, Kazuya).

 

[NB Semi Evil Ryu]

My personal favorite Tom video was when he was out in his neighborhood in the middle of the night screaming, "IT FEELS GREAAAAAAAT!", when he made the switch to MK 9 Raiden. I half-expected to hear some neighbor go off camera, "Shut up, Bill, we're trying to sleep...."

If NRS improves the clone, Tom "IT FEELS GREAAAAAAAAT!" Brady needs to make a return.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

I personally loved Tom's videos. Fuck the haters.

 

[KeyserSoze]

This seems like a very solid list (although, Liu Kang seems too low), but I personally don't think these "overall character"/"sum of all tools" lists that have been popping up recently are very useful at all. I really don't think tier lists for this game will mean much until people feel comfortable enough with their knowledge of the game to create variation-specific lists.

For example, Kotal Kahn is listed as the 7th worst, overall character in the game. And yet, the vast majority of players (so far) who use him competitively stick almost exclusively to War God. And, quite obviously, War God Kotal is no where near the bottom of competitive viability. So, from a competitive point of view, Kotal Kahn (who is almost entirely represented in tournament settings by his War God variation) is not practically the 7th worst character in the game. That's the problem with non-variation specific lists in a nutshell: They don't practically summarize relative competitive viability.

 

[RiBBz22]

Besides, online HF is crap, the latency won't allow him to do rushdown and do block cancels. Especially if it's a laggier connection.

I'm sure offline HF is a lot more viable, but online it's not that great.

@Vak Phoenix @macro

MUHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA

 

[RiBBz22]

Scorp(inferno) is higher/ top tier, his reset is wayy to easy and powerful a tool. I mean you guess wrong once or twice in one round and you're fucked lol. He's really just mid/average in the other two variations

@Vak Phoenix @macro
I almost spit out my drink when you called Hellfire average.

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

Who do you guys think is the most honest character in the game?

Kotal Kahn Blood God.

 

[Bender]

Appreciate the response

A lot of what you listed is Mu specific or things that Jax can either turn into an advantage or avoid using entirely.

Like I don't think F2s hitbox is important at all. I'd argue he doesn't even need to use that string in footsies. But the fact that it works most of the time vs most characters is just a bonus

B2 being punishable is Not the case vs most of the cast.
Don't think he has a hard time vs zoning at all when you can reaction armor most things if you feel like it, and not like zoning is particularly strong in this game.
having bad A-A is whatever. He doesn't need to go to the air at all

The difficult midscreen combos are legit why I don't play him seriously lol

I'm not saying he's unbeatable and there are no options to defend against him. I just really think he has every tool you need to be a top top tier character, and no real glaring weakness that makes a given Mu truly bad

You on Xbox by chance? I'll work on the MU if you want.

His F21 is probably his best normal, so I do think the wonky hitbox hurts him in a lot of matchups (Female characters + Raiden). I would really like to see this fixed, even if they scale down his damage output or something in compensation.

There are plenty of options to defend against him. Armor reversals inbetween pressure are the best option. Backdashes inbetween pressure can screw up his pressure and open him up. Blocking and counterpoking work just fine if you know his frame data. There are some characters that struggle against his pressure because of slow normals, but most have nice armor options to compensate (i.e. Kenshi). Most players try to jump out of pressure, which is a really bad idea. His best normals are also his anti airs and can lead to 27% combos.

I agree that he is very strong and well rounded. He has good mixup, dmg, and block strings and is a pretty safe character.

Nevertheless, he is technical to pickup and doesn't have anything particularly "cheesy" about him (ie: OP specials, half screen NJ2's, Vortex, etc). As far as normals are concerned, yes they are S tier, but that's only one aspect of the game. His pokes are good, but not amazing (no poke that makes him low profile, and there are several characters with 6 frame pokes. Jax's fastest is 7).

Finally, I'll just say that if Jax was #1 or even top 3, I would expect him to take more tournaments by now

 

[Death]

that was 4 years ago and you guys bring it like it happened yesterday.

and nothing was questionable about being frustrated when SZ in MK9 was wrongfully nerfed several times (which literally 100% of the community agreed upon) while characters doing one touch kills stay in the game.

It was supposed to be all in good fun.

Hey now. People still bring up my downplaying of Superman over 2 years ago. Take it as a compliment where people actually remember what you do haha

 

[STRYKIE]

I agree with the majority of the tier list. The fact there are so many characters in S+ and S tier shows there is something majorly wrong with balance in this game.

In Tekken Tag 2, there were only 3 characters considered to be S tier (Heihachi, Devil Jin, Kazuya).

What? Isn't more characters being in S-tier a bigger testament to how many characters can compete? If you're being sentimental about it, you can literally re-classify S+ and S within this tier list as S and A respectively. Or vice versa in TTT2. If you really wanna hold that logic to the grave, the only proposed S-tier characters in T6 were Steve, Bob, and maaaaaybe Lars. I don't think I need to explain why that's not a good thing.

Personally, as a Yoshimitsu main in T6 and TTT2, I don't feel the disparity between Raiden and Kitana is as wide as the Mishimas and Yosh so far. But I didn't bother whining about TTT2s balance because of it.

Honestly, can we pipe down with the entitled, hands-on-hips "every single character in a fighting game should be able to win, if they can't then the game isn't balanced" agenda? It's never been 100% entirely true in any fighting game in a competitive setting.

 

[Bender]

What? Isn't more characters being in S-tier a bigger testament to how many characters can compete? If you're being sentimental about it, you can literally re-classify S+ and S within this tier list as S and A respectively. Or vice versa in TTT2. If you really wanna hold that logic to the grave, the only proposed S-tier characters in T6 were Steve, Bob, and maaaaaybe Lars. I don't think I need to explain why that's not a good thing.

Personally, as a Yoshimitsu main in T6 and TTT2, I don't feel the disparity between Raiden and Kitana is as wide as the Mishimas and Yosh so far. But I didn't bother whining about TTT2s balance because of it.

Honestly, can we pipe down with the entitled, hands-on-hips "every single character in a fighting game should be able to win, if they can't then the game isn't balanced" agenda? It's never been 100% entirely true in any fighting game in a competitive setting.

Agreed, there isn't a huge disparity between S+ and B tier on this list. Most characters have at least 1 tournament viable character, which is a really good thing!

I feel like Kung Lao, Ermac, Takeda and Tanya are a little lower than they should be but agree with 90% of this.

Also, do you really think Liu Kang is the 3rd worst character in the game? I just picked him up as my #2 and he feels pretty strong/ has a lot of tools. Why so low? Sure, he has no overhead combo starter, but doesn't need it to be scarry with his pressure. The only thing I'd like is a faster poke on his d1. If it was 7 frames, he'd be amazing!

 

[Bender]

This seems like a very solid list (although, Liu Kang seems too low), but I personally don't think these "overall character"/"sum of all tools" lists that have been popping up recently are very useful at all. I really don't think tier lists for this game will mean much until people feel comfortable enough with their knowledge of the game to create variation-specific lists.

For example, Kotal Kahn is listed as the 7th worst, overall character in the game. And yet, the vast majority of players (so far) who use him competitively stick almost exclusively to War God. And, quite obviously, War God Kotal is no where near the bottom of competitive viability. So, from a competitive point of view, Kotal Kahn (who is almost entirely represented in tournament settings by his War God variation) is not practically the 7th worst character in the game. That's the problem with non-variation specific lists in a nutshell: They don't practically summarize relative competitive viability.

Would be cool to have a tier list based on the best character variation. Would probably take too much time to denote every single variation (some variations have 2 - 3 that could be their best), but just list the character and assume the player is picking their best variation.

 

[TackyHaddock]

U will see eventually w Detroit and others

I've been wondering where DetroitBalln is. Haven't seen him compete since Shang Tsung fight night. Dude is a monster.

 

[chackalacka]

What? Isn't more characters being in S-tier a bigger testament to how many characters can compete? If you're being sentimental about it, you can literally re-classify S+ and S within this tier list as S and A respectively. Or vice versa in TTT2. If you really wanna hold that logic to the grave, the only proposed S-tier characters in T6 were Steve, Bob, and maaaaaybe Lars. I don't think I need to explain why that's not a good thing.

Personally, as a Yoshimitsu main in T6 and TTT2, I don't feel the disparity between Raiden and Kitana is as wide as the Mishimas and Yosh so far. But I didn't bother whining about TTT2s balance because of it.

Honestly, can we pipe down with the entitled, hands-on-hips "every single character in a fighting game should be able to win, if they can't then the game isn't balanced" agenda? It's never been 100% entirely true in any fighting game in a competitive setting.

In Tekken 6, the S tiers Bob and Lars were considered OP and were nerfed in TTT2. Not sure about Steve. Yoshi has a far higher chance to beat Mishimas, as oppose to Kitana beating Quan Chi etc. S tiers is not really a good thing, unless every character is S tier.

I saw a low/mid tiers, such as Yoshimitsu, King, Eddy and Law at EVO. I saw Asuka/Jun and the Bears at other major tournaments. I will be VERY surprised if Kitana is in any major tournaments, since people have figured out most of her gimmicks.

TTT2 is one of the most balanced games I have played, and this has been agreed upon by several top level Korean players, and it is also pretty much confirmed with tournaments

 

[Bender]

In Tekken 6, both Bob and Lars were considered OP and were nerfed in TTT2. Not sure about Steve. Yoshi has a far higher chance to beat Mishimas, as oppose to Kitana beating Quan Chi etc.

I saw a low/mid tiers, such as Yoshimitsu, King, Eddy and Law at EVO. I saw Asuka/Jun and the Bears at other major tournaments. I will be VERY surprised if Kitana is in any major tournaments, since people have figured out most of her gimmicks.

TTT2 is one of the most balanced games I have played, and this has been agreed upon by several top level Korean players, and it is also pretty much confirmed with tournaments

Trey Pound has already done well with kitana at majors. He has some pocket characters for a few MU issues, but has made her work pretty effectively.

 

[chackalacka]

Trey Pound has already done well with kitana at majors. He has some pocket characters for a few MU issues, but has made her work pretty effectively.

Who is Trey Pound?

 

[George Costanza]

Ferra Torr should be higher...that downplaying though

 

[Youphemism]

What game have you been playing? It definitely isn't MKX.

Ok sorry Mr Literal I didn't mean absolutely noone, but unless you have a divekick or teleport there's little reason to go into the air. I know you think jumping is all people do since your character lacks a great anti-air but that doesn't mean everyone jumps all the time. Once people get used to running under jumps they won't be as effective, just like dashing under in MK9.

 

[STRYKIE]

In Tekken 6, both Bob and Lars were considered OP and were nerfed in TTT2. Not sure about Steve. Yoshi has a far higher chance to beat Mishimas, as oppose to Kitana beating Quan Chi etc.

I saw a low/mid tiers, such as Yoshimitsu, King, Eddy and Law at EVO. I saw Asuka/Jun and the Bears at other major tournaments. I will be VERY surprised if Kitana is in any major tournaments, since people have figured out most of her gimmicks.

TTT2 is one of the most balanced games I have played, and this has been agreed upon by several top level Korean players, and it is also pretty much confirmed with tournaments

Yoshimitsu was almost entirely carried on his back by team synergy in TTT2. You certainly didn't see him paired up with Bears, Roger/Alex or Dr.B did you?

Quan Chi is a fairly bad example, Kitana can lose to him for the exact same reason anyone in the upper half of the tier list can lol. Not to mention Kitana can keep Kung Jin in check better than some of the top 10 can. Not to refute Kitana's problems mind you, that's straight out of her own players' mouths. If they got a bracket full of KJs, who knows? Different styles make for different matchups.

Agreed, there isn't a huge disparity between S+ and B tier on this list. Most characters have at least 1 tournament viable character, which is a really good thing!

I feel like Kung Lao, Ermac, Takeda and Tanya are a little lower than they should be but agree with 90% of this.

Also, do you really think Liu Kang is the 3rd worst character in the game? I just picked him up as my #2 and he feels pretty strong/ has a lot of tools. Why so low? Sure, he has no overhead combo starter, but doesn't need it to be scarry with his pressure. The only thing I'd like is a faster poke on his d1. If it was 7 frames, he'd be amazing!

I don't know what to think of Liu. He certainly has issues against some hitboxes that need to be addressed but on the other hand the Liu forums are having a laugh if they believe he's being played anywhere near optimally as is.

If he is bottom 3, then somebody has to be, and it's at least more optimistic than being bottom 3 in some other fighters, MK9 included.

 

[Laos_boy]

Trey Pound has already done well with kitana at majors. He has some pocket characters for a few MU issues, but has made her work pretty effectively.

I heard he used Cassie and Sonya at the major he went to.

 

[haketh]

I heard he used Cassie and Sonya at the major he went to.

Tre has been playing Cassie more htan Kitana since release.

 

[Bender]

Who is Trey Pound?

One of the Yomi guys. He might go by Yomi Trey or something else at the tournies.

 

[Bender]

Yoshimitsu was almost entirely carried on his back by team synergy in TTT2. You certainly didn't see him paired up with Bears, Roger/Alex or Dr.B did you?

Quan Chi is a fairly bad example, Kitana can lose to him for the exact same reason anyone in the upper half of the tier list can lol. Not to mention Kitana can keep Kung Jin in check better than some of the top 10 can. Not to refute Kitana's problems mind you, that's straight out of her own players' mouths. If they got a bracket full of KJs, who knows? Different styles make for different matchups.



I don't know what to think of Liu. He certainly has issues against some hitboxes that need to be addressed but on the other hand the Liu forums are having a laugh if they believe he's being played anywhere near optimally as is.

If he is bottom 3, then somebody has to be, and it's at least more optimistic than being bottom 3 in some other fighters, MK9 included.

I don't care if he is bottom 3. Actually I probably prefer him down there, since it leaves room for buffs/ downplaying and I like winning as the underdog.

But I don't see why he would be so low. His pressure is as good as it get in MKX and he can play a forced approached gameplan against most of the cast, which includes some of the S and S+ characters. After playing him for a bit, I think he is the safest character in the game (ironic that Jax is my main and considered the safest character right now).

Imo he would be the first B tier character