Opinion on the what the current tiers look like

[NYCj360]

But he's winning with him isn't he?

Character has a ton of great tools. Only thing he lacks is the ridiculous damage that d'vorah and raiden have.

Or are you also going to argue that Batgirl isn't stupid too only because you also only have one guy winning with her?

I'm not saying that he has no options but the other two characters have far more options than he does.

Sonic fox is winning with him because the character compliments his strengths which is up close combat and guessing games, plus he's one of our best players.

Now there is a time to seperate the player from the character as well and call the character bullshit, REO was our best MK9 player for a long time, he used kabal but even he admitted the character was broken due to the matchups.

Unless erron black has a ton of 6-4 7-3 matchups, i don't see how he is S tier.

 

[Pan1cMode]

I'm calling it. Shinnok is going to be the Biller Frost of this game.

No, Frost was actually really good when the game came out. She suffered from a dodgy ruleset (allowing counterpicking of stages) and the fact the rooftop was just so overwhelmingly in favour of power characters. Day 1 KF could do legit 100% combos with 2 bars. Up until she lost trait cancels she was undisputable top 5

 

[Zephyrus]

I'm not saying that he has no options but the other two characters have far more options than he does.

Sonic fox is winning with him because the character compliments his strengths which is up close combat and guessing games, plus he's one of our best players.

Now there is a time to seperate the player from the character as well and call the character bullshit, REO was our best MK9 player for a long time, he used kabal but even he admitted the character was broken due to the matchups.

Unless erron black has a ton of 6-4 7-3 matchups, i don't see how he is S tier.

50/50's, great wakeup options, good meterless damage, unblockable command grab, great oki, great pressure, great set ups...

 

[TheIrishFGCguy]

Half-screen? Friendly reminder that Kung Jin has to be within the range of what most 50/50s cover to actually fully convert from said mixups.

I don't play KJ, nor are any of my characters able to directly punish him for them, but I thought we got over this trivial crap a month ago.

That's not true actually. His max conversion range is still furtter than the vast majority of 50/50s.

Even so, the point was that his 50/50 is definitely not punishable by pretty much everyone.

 

[SaSSolino]

I'm calling it. Shinnok is going to be the Biller Frost of this game.

I don't get the reference, can you help me out?

 

[xInfra Deadx]

No, Frost was actually really good when the game came out. She suffered from a dodgy ruleset (allowing counterpicking of stages) and the fact the rooftop was just so overwhelmingly in favour of power characters. Day 1 KF could do legit 100% combos. with 2 bars.

Right now, Shinnok is one of the most meter dependant characters in the game as far as chip/pressure goes, and when his meter runs out his risk/reward begins to look like Scorpion from Injustice. The footsie game is super overrated when F2,2 starts whiffing on smalls and in general very unsafe and has gaps...and F3 does not the impact it should have in said footsie game.

...and yeah. Wrong character analogy (Bane).

 

[Tweedy]

I'm not that good at this game, but I do mess around with most of the characters and I watch most of the tournaments that go on in the MKX competitive scene, and I also just would like to discuss this tier list lol.

I feel like Quan Chi is a glass cannon. Imo a character that can't really wake up is not S tier material. I remember when Wonderchef(I think that's who it was) won the NWM with Chi shortly after release, and everyone thought he was a god. Since then he's kind of fallen off. There are characters with amazing armor wake ups that can be used as launchers to start a full combo, like Raiden, Kung Jin, EB, etc.

While Quan can't really wake up he's still a super solid character besides that. He excels at what he does, he doesn't excel in other areas. He's the perfect A tier character imo.

I'm suprised Lao isn't higher on the list, especially Tempest Lao. I also feel like Scorpion is slightly worse than everyone else in S tier. I would probably put him in A. I just feel like he's a lot easier to punish, and while he does have an overhead, it's super slow, making his 50/50 game kind of non existent vs a high level player, who knows to sit on the low and then react to the high.

Edit: I know I didn't elaborate on Lao at all. I've just been seeing guys like PL and several players at the Common Wealth dominate with him and that Tempest variation. I assumed he'd be at least S tier atm.

 

[TKB]

Marksman Erron is better than Outlaw Erron, for a lot of reasons, and Kung Jin Bojutsu is completely outclassed by Marksman Erron.
Let's compare the characters.
Bojutsu Kung Jin is known for his ez-pz meterless damage confirms off of BF4 bo swat, right?
Jin's is extremely negative and punishable.
Marksman Erron Black has a move that fills the same purpose, but is completely safe.
He has this, in addition to gun cancel pressure, in addition to a cancelable 17% command grab, in addition to low overhead strings that he doesn't neven need to hit confirm, and again, all of his low or overead strings is cancellable and hit confirmable into his safe launcher that goes into more damage than Bojutsu Kung Jin could ever have in this patch.
Ancestral Kung Jin outdamages bojutsu at the wall, too.
Kung Jin doesn't have safety anymore, either, his hitconfirmable overhead option is full combo punishable by 8 frame reversal specials, which are easier to do if people were to just do them.
Tempest Lao is the better Lao too, and the better character.
Pre-patch Jin is dead. 1 1 isn't plus. DB4 ex isn't plus. F2 4 is punishable.

You must not have that much matchup knowledge vs Erron Black. He can't just make everything safe with rifle swing, there's a massive gap inbetween his 50/50s into rifle swing that you can literally just interrupt with a full combo or armor.

That's the purpose of using rifle cancels, to make his mixups safe/hit-confirm able. If rifle swing after his 50/50s was air tight there would be no point in doing the rifle cancels in the first place.

Also his rifle cancels aren't pressure, they're still negative.

 

[Zoidberg747]

She was already VERY strong but she was ignored in favor of other more appealing characters.

The other characters got nerfed and d'vorah wasn't, which in turn made d'vorah even stronger.

Dvorah was nerfed, they just didnt nerf her properly lmao

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I'm not that good at this game, but I do mess around with most of the characters and I watch most of the tournaments that go on in the MKX competitive scene, and I also just would like to discuss this tier list lol.

I feel like Quan Chi is a glass cannon. Imo a character that can't really wake up is not S tier material. I remember when Wonderchef(I think that's who it was) won the NWM with Chi shortly after release, and everyone thought he was a god. Since then he's kind of fallen off. There are characters with amazing armor wake ups that can be used as launchers to start a full combo, like Raiden, Kung Jin, EB, etc.

While Quan can't really wake up he's still a super solid character besides that. He excels at what he does, he doesn't excel in other areas. He's the perfect A tier character imo.

I'm suprised Lao isn't higher on the list, especially Tempest Lao. I also feel like Scorpion is slightly worse than everyone else in S tier. I would probably put him in A. I just feel like he's a lot easier to punish, and while he does have an overhead, it's super slow, making his 50/50 game kind of non existent vs a high level player, who knows to sit on the low and then react to the high.

Edit: I know I didn't elaborate on Lao at all. I've just been seeing guys like PL and several players at the Common Wealth dominate with him and that Tempest variation. I assumed he'd be at least S tier atm.

Quan chi players need to understand warlock is made for MUs u need wakeups

Quan is still tops people have just become better at dealing w him

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

Quan chi players need to understand warlock is made for MUs u need wakeups

Quan is still tops people have just become better at dealing w him

His wakeup still isn't very good and is full combo punishable on block. To get decent damage or a vortex you need to spend another bar of meter, then you have no meter for breaker or armoured wakeup if you get knocked down again. I believe warlock to be a utility variation of you REALLY don't want to pick a different character other than quan. There's a few match ups I've seen he's the best option in such as tempest lao. But overall the damage and setups that you're giving up in favor of a mediocre wakeup doesn't make this variation strong or a good counter pick overall. It just changes the struggle from waking up to getting meter and decent damage

 

[Predannok]

There's a few match ups I've seen he's the best option in such as tempest lao

You can add jax and cassie to the list

 

[SaltShaker]

9 pages in and from casuals to elite players, it's ridiculous that people don't know what "S+" and "S" really means. How can anyone take our lists serious like this...

 

[CrimsonShadow]

At the end of the day, what does tier talk accomplish?

40 pages of arguing

Then looking back in 2 months and being wrong

I'm happy we've mostly avoided this to this point, because if you look back at the tier threads we made early in IGAU, we should be ashamed of ourselves, haha.

At this point I think we generally know whether characters are good or bad overall, but as far as arguing whether characters are X tier or 1 tier below.. We need to give it some more time before we look like fools.

 

[Noserfatu]

Shinnok and Jax are laughably low on that list

can someone give me a serious argument on how Jax isn't top3 if not top1? A single weakness or potential bad mu?

He does everything the rest of the super top tier does, if not better.
-
I honestly don't think tiers are nescessary in this game. . .yet, Kinda agree with Kitana and goro having too many terrible mus to be solo viable, but everyone else is really good

There is too much going on in this game and it's going to be changing for awhile. Better to focus on what each character can do than trying to arbitrarily list them

How about Tyrant, the best Jax in the world, didn't make top 16 at ECT? Show me a better Jax. And show me proof that that Jax can make top 16 at stacked East Coast majors.

 

[Death]

S
Dvorah
raiden
EB
Tanya

A
Quan Chi
Jax
Kung Jin
Scorpion
Sonya
Cassie
KL
Kenshi

B
Johnny Cage
Sub
Ermac
Jacqui Briggs
Shinnok
Ferra Torr
Liu Kang
Kano

C
Mileena
Kotal Kahn
Jason
Reptile

D
Kitana
Takeda
Goro

 

[Lumpymoomilk]

I'm happy that Goro is considered bad, I still win enough with him and continue my tradition of playing garbage characters.

 

[Tweedy]

Quan chi players need to understand warlock is made for MUs u need wakeups

Quan is still tops people have just become better at dealing w him

I didn't think of warlock. So do you think Warlock is S tier?

And BTW, I've seen some of your Kenshi gameplay in the ESL. hella props

 

[CrimsonShadow]

How about Tyrant, the best Jax in the world, didn't make top 16 at ECT? Show me a better Jax. And show me proof that that Jax can make top 16 at stacked East Coast majors.

Jupiter did make Top 16.

Overall though, I think people saying he was 'broke' were vastly overstating his potency. Clearly it's not that easy for even very good, Day 1 dedicated players to dominate the game with him.

But it's still pretty early -- who's to say exactly where he stands?

 

[coolwhip]

Also the 7 hitter block string Into tele jails

That part is inaccurate Pig.

None of Kung Lao's block strings cancelled into teleport jail. The closest thing he has to "jailing" is j2 into tele 3 but that can be blown up by armor among other things.

 

[Noserfatu]

it's sad that Tanya is going to have to run train on evo before they nerf her.

 

[Vagrant]

IT HAS BEGUN!

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I didn't think of warlock. So do you think Warlock is S tier?

And BTW, I've seen some of your Kenshi gameplay in the ESL. hella props

I dont think warlock by itself i S tier but i feel Quan is as a whole

Warlock is probably is worst, but worst is a terrible word to use seeing how each of his variations serve a purpose. Quan might have the best sum of all parts

and thx!

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

That part is inaccurate Pig.

None of Kung Lao's block strings cancelled into teleport jail. The closest thing he has to "jailing" is j2 into tele 3 but that can be blown up by armor among other things.

Whats b32 on block or whatever that string is?

b321? b312?

 

[coolwhip]

Whats b32 on block or whatever that string is?

b321? b312?

b321.

It's -5 on block.