Question - Kano KANO needs some buffs?

[LEGI0N47]

I would like to know how asking for fixes to a few normals and specials is asking for our character to be unbalanced or broken? Especially when there are characters that have had a fix to moves that don't function well that are arguably higher rated than Kano. Some of you forget what a read based char he is too so I question the over reaction to many of the proposals as none of them would lock anyone down except "potentially" one which is more frames on MB Knives in Cyber. That would cost resources and would still require a read as they could back dash or jump or armor still in many cases.

It doesn't take a FG genius to realize he's outclassed for all the reasons sited by our most out spoken reps, and they are not wrong. Keep up the good work boys!

Also I like you guys in the Kano community a whole lot but IMO calling cmd grabs a guarantee after 112 knife or b31 knife etc. may be a bill. It does force a guess to try to escape it, but it is not a sure thing. If I'm wrong let me know, that's why I said "may be" but I don't believe I am. Also I will add I'm a huge fan of that and it's one of my go to's.

 

[ando1184]

if you also wanna talk about kotals downside: kotal has a super-awkward backwalk, his parry is way harder to make use of than kanos (mostly against single-hitting wakeups imo), all of his strings have either long startup or block disadvantage and he will never get his projectile out against a knife-throwing kano.

imo kotal clearly outdamages kano, while kano has the way better mobility and zoning. kotals biggest advantage in this mu is that he can potentially heal himself while ducking knives, but i also think he has a hard time getting in on kano at all.

imo both are perfectly fine characters which are neither over- nor underpowered.

i dont mean to defend (commando) kano at all cost, but some of the stuff written here is simply wrong or incomplete.

I am comparing the two as grapplers and who is the better one. I listed both sides of the story for both characters. Kotal's parry and kano's counter are around the same risky scenario, you dont throw em out unless on a read anyway. Kotal has slow start up on back walk but afterwards he moves. It's his forward walk that gives him great mobility combined with his backdash. Him and Kano are very similar in how they play the neutral. I know this because I also play Kotal Kahn. I'm not going to make statements about characters unless I understand how that character works. At this point Kotal is balanced as a character in sungod variation. You just can't go ham with f2's and f1b2 like we see most of the community doing with him. He is a very underrated character in sungod variation and that's the problem with this community. They overrate the ones who are underrated and underrate the ones that are overrated.

 

[Error]

Also I like you guys in the Kano community a whole lot but IMO calling cmd grabs a guarantee after 112 knife or b31 knife etc. may be a bill. It does force a guess to try to escape it, but it is not a sure thing. If I'm wrong let me know, that's why I said "may be" but I don't believe I am. Also I will add I'm a huge fan of that and it's one of my go to's.

It is a bill, knives in Commando are like +7 on hit, so the opponent has plenty of options.

 

[LEGI0N47]

It is a bill, knives in Commando are like +7 on hit, so the opponent has plenty of options.

I just hadn't tested it myself so I didn't want to proclaim it as fact hence the small disclaimer. It is still strong though and unless they're looking for it or you're getting too predictable I believe it's very practical.

 

[OG Mannimal]

So what's wrong with Choke? I don't play Commando often, but when I do I never have any glitchy things happen with it?

 

[OG Mannimal]

Also just realized that this is a buffs thread, I thought I was in the general discussion thread smh

 

[FlappyDaniel]

Also just realized that this is a buffs thread, I thought I was in the general discussion thread smh

It's not glitchy, just a pointless move for 99% of situations

Edit: quoted wrong post lol

 

[RYX]

So what's wrong with Choke? I don't play Commando often, but when I do I never have any glitchy things happen with it?

it's a high that's really punishable on block and - on hit

the - on hit might be wrong though, because Kotal's air grab is supposedly -2 on hit, but since it's a knockdown it actually isnt

 

[FlappyDaniel]

If you're using choke you get no advantage frame wise or positioning wise

 

[Error]

So what's wrong with Choke? I don't play Commando often, but when I do I never have any glitchy things happen with it?

-17 I think on block and -5 on hit, high and sends opponent far away into safety.

I just hadn't tested it myself so I didn't want to proclaim it as fact hence the small disclaimer. It is still strong though and unless they're looking for it or you're getting too predictable I believe it's very practical.

Yeah, it was one of the first gimmicks I implemented with Kano, and it's not bad.

 

[kabelfritz]

I am comparing the two as grapplers and who is the better one. I listed both sides of the story for both characters. Kotal's parry and kano's counter are around the same risky scenario, you dont throw em out unless on a read anyway. Kotal has slow start up on back walk but afterwards he moves. It's his forward walk that gives him great mobility combined with his backdash. Him and Kano are very similar in how they play the neutral. I know this because I also play Kotal Kahn. I'm not going to make statements about characters unless I understand how that character works. At this point Kotal is balanced as a character in sungod variation. You just can't go ham with f2's and f1b2 like we see most of the community doing with him. He is a very underrated character in sungod variation and that's the problem with this community. They overrate the ones who are underrated and underrate the ones that are overrated.

i never said kotal was bad, i was in the lab with him quite a bit, always thought hes perfectly fine in all variations. but how are he and kano similar in the neutral when kano can just throw knives and kotal cant?

 

[FlappyDaniel]

Also I got hands fuck off if you're not going to contribute any more then calling us whiners because we're talking about our character . If we invaded otther threads and did it like the kitanas you could be frustrated but this is our character forum and we'll discuss what we want. Most of us don't even think he needs anything major.

 

[Thierry Henry]

LOL @ Wong's placing. Surprised SRK didn't put Daigo on there for all out dick riding worship.

The important thing is the Bane, Aquaman/Superman and Martian Man Hunter players that were going to wreck everyone in MK X being no where to be seen here.

 

[SaltShaker]

Also just realized that this is a buffs thread, I thought I was in the general discussion thread smh

That's how reasonable and rational our buffs thread has been. You end up discussing in it not even realizing that it's a buffs thread lol. Doesn't get better than that.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Everyone, I want you all to read this post. Then I want everyone to reference my posts in this thread and othe Kano forum. People on both sides of the discussion that have talked with me. If have shown to be the "epotime" of what's wrong with TYM, "lied", or of all things "misdirect conversation", let me know how I did so and I'll drop Kano today for Erron Black.


That's how confident I am that you are on an island with that perspective of me, and to a greater extent the community.

Yeah, because the entirety of TYM is your dispute counsel who will come in and weigh in on this for you

Regardless, fairly sure that aside from the Kano mains (aka most of the people still reading this downright ridiculous thread that somehow made it to 12 pages), the majority of MKX players think Kano is one of the most balanced characters in the game at the moment. Hell even plenty of Kano players are agreeing he shouldn't be buffed. The rest of you however, are possibly the biggest whiners on these forums, you are literally complaining that you have a midtier character, it's so cringeworthy to watch this downplaying

So your argument is that Kano players should suffer because he is more balanced (weaker) than other characters, like that Is a good thing?

So your argument is that because you are only stronger than half the cast, you should be brought up to the level of the top tier ones as well?

Because NRS fucked up the balancing of the very top tier characters, you think they should go ahead and throw out the balancing that they did get right, just to appease you and make your multiplayer experience less challenging, at the cost of literally making it less balanced and well-designed for the rest of the game?

Yes, it IS a good thing that he isn't stronger than the majority of the cast, the only reason you and any others who share this view don't want to see this is because you are Kano mains and its hilariously blatant. This is why the rest of the game doesn't think buffing Kano is a good change either. You want to throw out some of the good balance that we do have because you think you having no bad match ups for the character you play is a good trade for turning a bunch of balanced match ups into unfavourable ones from other players perspectives, and turning some already Kano favored match ups into absolute stomps, making the game much less balanced for the majority of the cast.

Am I supposed to feel good about being beat because of certain characters kit, not because of another players skill?

Hate to break it to you bro, but other than the top 5, the rest of the cast is not significantly ahead of Kano. The balancing is so close in this game, and yeah we should strive to get them even closer, but dude if you are losing with Kano, the majority of the time, it IS because the other player was more skilled than you. I know everyone loves being a special snowflake, and this fact can be super-hard to accept, and it's rarely your fault when you lose with Kano its because of "NRS shitty balance buff Kanoi plz", but at the end of the day, losing with a mid tier cast member, 90% of the time it's because your opponent outplayed you, and the (few) characters that it isn't, are the ones who need a nerfing.

 

[M2Dave]

kano is a very well-designed character whose power should be the measurement for every character in the game, and as long as the rest of the cast doesnt get overbuffed and maybe some chars lose a bit more bullshit here and there (hellfire scorp uninterruptable cancels, shinnok plus a bazillion MB on block), he is completely fine.

And Erron Black 50/50 mix ups, Jax's twin pistons pressure, Johnny Cage's b+1,2 pressure, Kenshi's new and improved zoning potential, Kung Jin's versatility, Kung Lao's hat spin pressure, Quan Chi's zoning and vortex, Raiden's pokes and vortex, Tanya's zoning and run away game, etc.

But let us ferociously debate whether up laser and choke should remain worthless or whether b+1 in Cutthroat should have a little bit more range or whether knives in Cybernetic should do slightly more damage and chip damage... such a foolish community.

But I am now 100% in agreement with @dribirut. I think Kano is low mid tier, and whoever believes Kano is top 10 is fighting mediocre competition.

 

[pogse]

Make choke animation faster. I like it as an anti air armor move. other situations b13 does better.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Gotta love slippery slope arguments. Fact is, it's been a pattern of NRS to leave certain characters behind on patches for 2 games now, so not asking for simple fixes now is asking to have your character left behind once the ~6 month mark comes around. NRS is very unlikely to tone down the current top 10 to the point where they completely drop with a few exceptions, and it would be pointless to, because every game will have top characters and bottom characters regardless.

"fact is:"

and then you proceed to detail a bunch of predictions, based partially of past patterns, partially off baseless assumptions on NRS's plans for the top 10.




Regardless, I agree with the hitbox changes. Thats a bug or just bad game design, and should be fixed.

But what you are asking for is a lot different to what many others are asking for.


Wanting him buffed up tiers to be able to compete with the top of the cast, in anticipation that Kitana and Reptile and the like are going to suddenly overtake Kano significantly when she gets her buffs, when in reality she might very well still be below and likely will be based on NRS's last touch up's to her. This is all assumptions, and I think it's much more likely they end up either on his level or still below, but even if they weren't, adding him to the pool of hero's needing a nerf from the rest of the cast's perspective, is not a positive change lol. He can currently compete with all but the top, who many others can't compete with either. The Kano-Raiden match up being unbalanced isn't a Kano problem, it's a Raiden problem

 

[Gengar]

Arms.

yes, give him more arms. that would be fair.

 

[SaltShaker]

Yeah, because the entirety of TYM is your dispute counsel who will come in and weigh in on this for you.

^^ Hahahaha!!!! You hear this guy? So your logic why no one would agree with the statements you made about me, on either side of the discussion, is because the entire TYM blindly follows me?? LMAO!! It wouldn't be more likely that you're talking out your ass about me and the Kano community, no? I'm thd Kingpin of TYM that my council will defend me at all cost. Lol! LOLOL! LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!! That has to be the single most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

You've yet to give a legitimate reason as to why any of our community members suggestions (not the OP) are unnecessary, too over powering, etc. Explain to us how increasing B1 Cutthroat hitbox, making Choke in Commando a usable special, or increasing B2 frames in Cyber so we can consistently whiff punish, are the worst thing on all of TYM. We'll wait.

Though you should know, your entertainment level has officially surpassed your credibility level. Congrats.

 

[dribirut]

And Erron Black 50/50 mix ups, Jax's twin pistons pressure, Johnny Cage's b+1,2 pressure, Kenshi's new and improved zoning potential, Kung Jin's versatility, Kung Lao's hat spin pressure, Quan Chi's zoning and vortex, Raiden's pokes and vortex, Tanya's zoning and run away game, etc.

But let us ferociously debate whether up laser and choke should remain worthless or whether b+1 in Cutthroat should have a little bit more range or whether knives in Cybernetic should do slightly more damage and chip damage... such a foolish community.

But I am now 100% in agreement with @dribirut. I think Kano is low mid tier, and whoever believes Kano is top 10 is fighting mediocre competition.

Meh it's more clear to me with each day passing that he is bad. I have to play perfectly to beat any top players now. I do better with my day 1-2 kung Lao/ jc/ raiden than this character. But I'm tired of trying to convince people here..

 

[Error]

LOL @ Wong's placing. Surprised SRK didn't put Daigo on there for all out dick riding worship.

The important thing is the Bane, Aquaman/Superman and Martian Man Hunter players that were going to wreck everyone in MK X being no where to be seen here.

Wong thread bro.

@I GOT HANDS
The only facts I was talking about were detailing NRS patching patterns abs that we have about 6 months of patching, exerting elder was predictions. And I've seen few people who I'd actually listen to asking for unreasonable fixes/buffs.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

^^ Hahahaha!!!! You hear this guy? So your logic why no one would agree with the statements you made about me, on either side of the discussion, is because the entire TYM blindly follows me?? LMAO!! It wouldn't be more likely that you're talking out your ass about me and the Kano community, no? I'm thd Kingpin of TYM that my council will defend me at all cost. Lol! LOLOL! LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!! That has to be the single most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

.... ......... really? I have to explain this? ~_~


Do you know why it sounds so ridiculous, me saying that TYM is your personal dispute counsel? Because it was blatant sarcasm. I know it doesn't travel that well over the Internet, but damn dude... This one wasn't that hard.





Also, relative to the second half of your post - why do I have to give reasoning to support a bunch of statements I'm not making? I already said, I agree that the hitbox should be fixed, and there's no harm with finding the right way to make his choke useful. When did I ever say this would make him OP?

I'm responding to the other statements that some of you guys are making, that he needs to be significantly buffed and should be able to trade games with the crazy OP members of the cast (Any other Kanos reading this, if you aren't one of these people, then nothing I said is directed at you my bros).

Unless you think that hitbox fix completely rebalances the Raiden match up that you were complaining about earlier, then fine, by all means. Otherwise, stop Strawman'ing my arguments and debating something you know I ain't sayin

 

[M2Dave]

Meh it's more clear to me with each day passing that he is bad. I have to play perfectly to beat any top players now. I do better with my day 1-2 kung Lao/ jc/ raiden than this character. But I'm tired of trying to convince people here..

You cannot convince ignorant fools.

But yeah same here. I am doing much better with my 3-4 day Tanya than with Kano.

 

[SaltShaker]

I'm responding to the statements you guys are making, that he needs to be significantly buffed and should be able to trade games with the crazy OP members of the cast.

So in other words, no one on either side of the argument agrees with your earlier statement about me and you have no idea why that is the case. Got it.

Ok Mr. Hands, I'll play along. Not talking the OP, talking our community, this thread, the content discussed in it in regards to Kano. Which suggestions did I or our community make that sounds like we are saying he should be "significantly buffed and should be able trade games with the crazy OP members of the cast"? Who has been consistently saying it? Where is it? Anywhere?

Show me where I, or the strong members of the Kano community have suggested multiple ridiculous OP buffs. Point to the overwhelming amounts of these absurd requests. Enlighten us.