Question - Kano KANO needs some buffs?

[MsMiharo]

At this moment I don't think he needs buffs. Having an unblockable untechable command grab off of safe options means that you can just walk straight ahead into the enemy and block string them into guaranteed damage.

It's not guaranteed and the only string is f33 which has shit range, priority and speed

 

[MsMiharo]

do your counters count as reads?
cause those are 17%, iirc.
he's not entirely offense, he'sa little bit anti-offense too, right?

Yeah. That's why he should be able to punish properly. Don't want him to be rush down but a viable defensive character which IMO should mean good punishes. You should not have to counter everything to get damage

 

[kabelfritz]

Lets be honest, Kano does need a little tweaking if he is ever going to be a viable option in the competitive scene.


Yes a lot of these other characters could use a Nerf but that doesn't mean Kano shouldn't get a little love though.

Some things In his game are worthless, some things in his kit are extremely inconsistent. A lot of those things are important things In his kit.

I'm not saying he needs a kenshi rework but he does need a little love.

I'm not biased either way, I'm being realistic. Anyone that thinks he is perfect as is, is trying to be Kano tough, there is nothing wrong with a little love to make him viable in the competitive scene.

There is a reason why guys like Coach Steve dropped him in competitive play.

I'm just saying..

*side note

umm these posts have absolutely zero content.

 

[kabelfritz]

Been playing more commando lately and I feel that being a character that really relies on reads his punishes are too weak. Like I can make a good read and get 19-20% slightly more if I do an ex ball. Just feels a bit weak. The lack of juggles and strong tick setups affect his damage output and you have to make so many more reads than your opponents, especially if they're playing someone like scorp

dont forget you get a standing reset after every punish (112 knife, 112 MBRollCancel 112 knife, b13, 32), where a command throw suddenly makes your 15/25% damage 30/40% plus oki setup, which can result into another 20% and another oki setup. once this tain gets rolling, he seems to be pretty balanced with his low damage. and aside of that, this is just a smaller part of his gameplan, he is more a defensive char who wants opponents come to him, not rush them down. you control the pace with knives, counter opponents, get a sequence of the kano train running and then go back to defense. if this char had 30-40% bnb's, the crying would be unreal.

 

[MsMiharo]

dont forget you get a standing reset after every punish (112 knife, 112 MBRollCancel 112 knife, b13, 32), where a command throw suddenly makes your 15/25% damage 30/40% plus oki setup, which can result into another 20% and another oki setup. once this tain gets rolling, he seems to be pretty balanced with his low damage. and aside of that, this is just a smaller part of his gameplan, he is more a defensive char who wants opponents come to him, not rush them down. you control the pace with knives, counter opponents, get a sequence of the kano train running and then go back to defense. if this char had 30-40% bnb's, the crying would be unreal.

You're probably right. I just find myself often starved for meter and trading 20% punishes for 40%+ combos when I guess wrong. I'm not saying I'm right, I am a casual with limited commando experience, just sharing some thoughts

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Good to see you guys making the salt report for this ridiculous thread. Thanks for the entertainment, Kano community

 

[GLoRToR]

It's not guaranteed and the only string is f33 which has shit range, priority and speed

Again.
You CANNOT BLOCK and CANNOT TECH his grab. You don't understand how powerful this is.

 

[OG Mannimal]

I think you, Coach Steve, and OgManimal might be the only ones left who disagree with Kano's fairing vs the top 10 lol.

So you have Raiden, Quan Chi, Scorpion, D'Vorah, Sonya, Erron Black, Cassie, Jax, Kung Jin, and Sub-Zero. This is pretty much the Top 10 agreed upon within the scene, just the order is debated at times. Now considering competitive variations only we have this.

Kano dominant MU's- none.

Kano adv. MU's- Hollywood Cassie. 1 total variation.

Kano even MU's, but possibly can be advantage- Bojutsu Kung Jin, Covert Ops Sonya, 2 total variations.

Kano even MU's- Summoner Quan Chi, D'Vorah Venomous, Jax. 5 variations counting 3 of Jax.

Kano even MU's, put possibly can be disadvantage- Swarm Queen D'Vorah, Special Forces Sonya, Grand Master Sub-Zero, Thunder God Raiden, 4 total variations.

Kano bad MU's- Inferno Scorpion, Spec Ops Cassie, 2 total variations.

Kano death MU's- Hellfire Scorpion, Outlaw Erron Black (since post patch effects other MU's much more than this one). 2 total variations.

So we're looking at something close to no dominant MU's, 1 clear adv, 2 possible adv, 5 even (3 from one character), 4 possibly bad, 2 bad, and 2 really bad vs variations of the Top 10. As a whole, I'm sure everyone doesn't agree on all of it since we're all different people, but that seems to be the general standing at this point.

If other characters start getting buffed up and Kano gets nothing he'll just gradually slide down the ladder while others catch up, and eventually end up the Grundy of the game. It's why I think he'll need some additions as time goes. Nothing too crazy, but a few little things to keep him in the competitive scene.

There's literally no way that Kano loses to Raiden. Also outlaw Erron black is a death MU? The fuck? I am about to take some finals so I can't write more but I disagree with half the matchups you listed

 

[MsMiharo]

Again.
You CANNOT BLOCK and CANNOT TECH his grab. You don't understand how powerful this is.

You can backdash jump armor. I know what a command grab is lol

You can literally lose 40% for trying to tick off of your terrible string with bad range for trying to get less than 20%

 

[GLoRToR]

You can backdash jump armor. I know what a command grab is lol

You can literally lose 40% for trying to tick off of your terrible string with bad range for trying to get less than 20%

I very rarely can backdash or jump while blocking low. Like never. Care to teach me how to do this?

 

[MsMiharo]

I very rarely can backdash or jump while blocking low. Like never. Care to teach me how to do this?

You really try to make me look stupid post after post. Let go of block and backdash like you would backdash a gap in a string?

 

[DFC]

I very rarely can backdash or jump while blocking low. Like never. Care to teach me how to do this?

I spent hours slaving over a hot controller just to show you.
https://d.maxfile.ro/wzjpcosytl.webm

 

[SaltShaker]

There's literally no way that Kano loses to Raiden. Also outlaw Erron black is a death MU? The fuck? I am about to take some finals so I can't write more but I disagree with half the matchups you listed

What Raiden have you played to say there is "literally no way" Kano loses to Raiden? I have played BW1zZ Lao and Raiden. Anyone on his level or higher? Having a hard time believing that statement is legit. Tell me Raiden loses to Kano afterwards. I need to hear a Raiden you beat on this level to even remotely consider the MU even, let alone a winning one.

Erron I agree I might have exxagerated a little bit. I used to believe it was advantage, then I thought it was even, now I think it's disadvantage. Too much to defend, risk/reward is always in his favor except for full screen, and no way out the corner.

I've heard a couple of you say "Kano is clearly Top 10" and madness like that but I've yet to hear a single actual reason outside of Coach Steve as to why he is "that" good or how he possibly is better than the actual Top 10 characters. I've also yet to hear a reason why if he is so great why is his representation low and getting lower, while most of the players who started with him either dropped him already or picked up Top Tier secondaries.

 

[GLoRToR]

You really try to make me look stupid post after post. Let go of block and backdash like you would backdash a gap in a string?

I have no such intention I just don't understand what you're saying because if I let go of block I can't backdash, I still get either grabbed or hit.
It may just be me not understanding frame data too well at this point but every time I tried to move or even armor out of that string, I got grabbed.

 

[GLoRToR]

I spent hours slaving over a hot controller just to show you.
https://d.maxfile.ro/wzjpcosytl.webm

I'll have work to do then, thanks.

 

[OG Mannimal]

What Raiden have you played to say there is "literally no way" Kano loses to Raiden? I have played BW1zZ Lao and Raiden. Anyone on his level or higher? Having a hard time believing that statement is legit. Tell me Raiden loses to Kano afterwards. I need to hear a Raiden you beat on this level to even remotely consider the MU even, let alone a winning one.

Erron I agree I might have exxagerated a little bit. I used to believe it was advantage, then I thought it was even, now I think it's disadvantage. Too much to defend, risk/reward is always in his favor except for full screen, and no way out the corner.

I've heard a couple of you say "Kano is clearly Top 10" and madness like that but I've yet to hear a single actual reason outside of Coach Steve as to why he is "that" good or how he possibly is better than the actual Top 10 characters. I've also yet to hear a reason why if he is so great why is his representation low and getting lower, while most of the players who started with him either dropped him already or picked up Top Tier secondaries.

lololol BWizz

I was dead even with Orochi and on a long streak before he switched to Kenshi

 

[SaltShaker]

lololol BWizz

I was dead even with Orochi and on a long streak before he switched to Kenshi

He's nice, I know.

Switched to Kenshi from Raiden? That isn't something you say every day. Ok so how is it a favorable MU? What do you do when touched? How do you stay out the corner? How do you keep him out for the majority of a match? Just not seeing where the "advantage" part comes into play in this MU.

EDIT: I remember you massively up playing Raven as well during Injustice. Probably helped influence the "she's fine" movement until it was too late and other characters were much better. -.-

 

[Rude]

Everything i would say, Saltshaker is saying it for me.

Carry on.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Dude, let it go. You are shooting your own credibility with every post. Kano is fine, you admit he's fine, yet you want him buffed, at the cost of less balance on the game currently, all so that you don't have to RISK your multiplayer experience getting any more challenging in future patches that you are trying to predict, without stopping to consider the repercussions that budding a balanced character will have on the rest of the game.

Your reasons for whinging for buffs are ridiculous, this is 11 pages deep now, let it go, you've already got your feature on this weeks salt report for being one of the only ridiculous "buff me too please!" threads that was actually sincere, don't make it any worse for yourselves this shit is cringeworthy

 

[OG Mannimal]

He's nice, I know.

Switched to Kenshi from Raiden? That isn't something you say every day. Ok so how is it a favorable MU? What do you do when touched? How do you stay out the corner? How do you keep him out for the majority of a match? Just not seeing where the "advantage" part comes into play in this MU.

EDIT: I remember you massively up playing Raven as well during Injustice. Probably helped influence the "she's fine" movement until it was too late and other characters were much better. -.-

I don't recall saying Kano beat Raiden ever.

And Raven was fine in Injustice, she just had like 3 shit matchups where one was rarely ever played at a level that it mattered (Grundy). Raven was fine just like Kano is fine now. You don't need to have a top tier broken character to be able to compete, which Kano, and Raven, have the tools to do.

 

[SaltShaker]

Dude, let it go. You are shooting your own credibility with every post. Kano is fine, you admit he's fine, yet you want him buffed, at the cost of less balance on the game currently, all so that you don't have to RISK your multiplayer experience getting any more challenging in future patches that you are trying to predict, without stopping to consider the repercussions that budding a balanced character will have on the rest of the game.

Your reasons for whinging for buffs are ridiculous, this is 11 pages deep now, let it go, you've already got your feature on this weeks salt report for being one of the only ridiculous "buff me too please!" threads that was actually sincere, don't make it any worse for yourselves this shit is cringeworthy

^^ Are you reading the content of the posts or just seeing the word "buff" and jumping to conclusions?

How am I "shooting down my own credibility" when +90% of the Kano community feels the same way. Yes there are about 3 Kano mains who feel he doesn't need anything and I respect their opinion. It is the case in every community. While the overwhelming majority of Kano main's feel he needs small adjustments. Even @Youphemism who rates him higher than me with actual reasoning agrees he can at least use improvements to ball special or B2, but doesn't agree on other things like damage which I understand and don't suggest anymore after discussing with him. So by your logic 90% of the Kano community is no longer credible and whining because a tiny fraction of Kano main's feel he needs no adjustments, and the majority of outsiders think he should stay as is because they can't get around knives?

Makes sense.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

Oh no! Not "cringeworthy" how ever will we survive? Get off twitch and spend some time reading this thread and you'd see how much of an idiot you're being. What? You think every Kano who posted wanting changes was elected as a representative of our community and every single Kano thinks this way? All 11 pages of this thread is allllllll Kano mains crying right? Get over yourself kid.

 

[SaltShaker]

I don't recall saying Kano beat Raiden ever.

Ok now I'm officially confused.

There's literally no way that Kano loses to Raiden.

?

MU speaking, i don't think he beats Raiden at all. Any set longer than FT10 against a good Raiden always feels like hiking uphill for me.

 

[OG Mannimal]

Ok now I'm officially confused.



?

MU speaking, i don't think he beats Raiden at all. Any set longer than FT10 against a good Raiden always feels like hiking uphill for me.

When I said that part about "no way he loses to Raiden" I meant matchup wise not that he cannot lose a single game to Raiden. Even matchup

 

[SaltShaker]

Also, I like how this thread, not counting the original OP, has been one of the most rational, logical, and reasonably discussed buff/nerf threads in TYM history on both sides of the argument, yet some people would still criticize the discussion lol.