General/Other - Bojutsu Bojutsu Kung Jin After-Patch Damage Report (5/14/2015)

[FlappyDaniel]

He didn't get nerfed that Bad, he's still a sick pressure machine just not quite as brain dead. Y'all will adapt and be fine once the tears dry.

 

[TheIrishFGCguy]

Quote from REO's twitter

"I think the most nerfed chars this patch are 1.) Sub-Zero (by far) and 2.) Kung Jin. I still think they're good but definitely less powerful"

See, Kung Jin is still good. If you won't listen to people on TYM at least listen to the big dogs.

 

[RelentlessOhio]

Who can honestly launch-punish f+2,4? Raiden? Tempest Kung Lao at a very close range?

Jacqui's b,f+1 does not work. Kano's up ball does not work. Sub Zero's slide does not work.

Kung Laos cartwheel, EX spin, DK (if you're that fast at inputs)..

 

[STRYKIE]

Kung Laos cartwheel, EX spin, DK (if you're that fast at inputs)..

For divekick, you have to take into account the frames of height restriction before you're allowed to do an aerial attack (@GGA 16 Bit - are you allowed to clarify how many?). But I'm pretty sure regular spin should work.

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

1. Everyone can, but F3 second hit is overhead and that move can be fuzzy guarded wich in consequent opened for the lows, throws, if you get locked in the corner you have to hope Kung John throws his mixup on your guard, besides Good Kung Jin's players will react to you fuzzy guard because they have no risk at throwing nothing on the screen:
F3 it was 0 on block, you guessed right, he would just d1 to check you, when you try to retaliate,? NJP.
B14 was -4, you try to retaliate? NJP.
F24, +2 on block, you can't punish, try to retaliate? NJP.
If everyone would just have fuzzy guard as only option against kung jin this person would die, the point was not blocking the mixup, was he being stupid safe every time he mixes up there was "NO RISK" of being punished by nothing, so he would just keep going, over and over until he gets it right, why would he risk his unsafe launchers when he can mix you up all day with no risk?
2. Again His mixups were safe, they just added a risk, the Mixup is still there, block low vs Kung Jin and react to the overhead? LOL its not like Scorpion overhead is faster, anyway you react to the overhead, and then what? It was +2 LOL now i have to block low again, and react to the overhead again right? Fair.
3.D'Vorah doesn't have safe 50-50 mixups and doesn't outrange all characters in the game, she doesn't have a jump in that can't be ducked and has the same exact number of hit stun do jail blockstring no matter how it was thrown, and a NJP that hit characters crouching from distance.
What Erron Black's 50-50s? between command grab and sand from a blockstring, two answers: Backdash if your not in the corner, Armor out of it.
Quan got his bats normalized he is a vortex character. I can't say about sonya because i haven't seen one yet.
4. Scorpion is a counter zoner by default, if you fight against him you should never do nothing that has long recovery afterwards without touching him, besides, his teleport his hella unsafe and in case you didn't noticed it was nerfed, now only has armor on wakeup ever since the second fix came out, so stop bitching. Inferno zoning is garbo, slow startup, slow recovery on low demon, slow startup on overhead demon, slow startup on mid demon, are you really crying about those slow ass moves? LOL You can reversal punish low demon on block, and it can only be used fullscreen.
I'm not saying scorpion is not good, he is Effin good, but he doesn't get nothing for free, in Inferno he is a high risk high reward character, in Ninjutsu he is a high risk low reward character and in hellfire he is a low risk high reward character, but you have to beat the execution barrier first which is stupid high.
His fastest punisher is 9 frames, his best reversal punisher is teleport but that to work the used move has to be at -22 on block in minimum, he has to spend meter or stamina to stay safe when he is pressuring you and in some cases he has to use both meter and stamina, but he is good i didn't said otherwise.

Kung Jin got buffed, even if he doesn't have safe mixups like anyone else, his jump in can't still be ducked his NJP still hits characters crouching and from distance, not everyone can't punish a -8 from distance, this includes scorpion, he being a bit minus on F3 means he doesn't get to check you for free, or NJP you for free, now you have to consider as everyone else, but now that people will be much eager to retaliate due the breathing room it will only make your counters more effective, but with a risk.

Gah man do you even really know KJ's frame data or just repeating what other people say? D1 check is like -11 on block and you can check it back lol I'm not replying to all of this. Maybe later

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

It was a BUG. It was supposed to be -8 all along but the game treated a lot of shit that was supposed to be neutral or negative as +2 on block.

Also -8 means that SOME of the cast get to punish, and they only get a 1-frame-link punish. Boo fucking hoo cry me a river. They miss 1 frame, JUST ONE FRAME, and instead of you getting punished, they are.

GTFO.


Right because you developed the game and you know how it's supposed to scale.

"Try to cover it up"... GTFO.

Like I stated before the second part I was joking.

The first part tho, ugh. Do you understand how slow Kung Jin is? He gets damage because he only has one string that punishes but its neg on hit and everything else is slow especially now that his b1 is 11 frames. But you nor hardly anybody else sees this. Kung Jin mix-ups are not a threat, he was best character because the damage and he was able to convert on everything. Kung Jin is a lot easier to react to now and his 11 pressure doesn't exist anymore because 11 on block gets punished.

 

[Kroaken]

lol

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I know he can, but what about Jacqui? Kano? Quan Chi? Sub Zero? Etc.

CoRzz Jin is selling $100 dollar bills to everyone reading the first post.

There are probably less than ten characters who can punish f+2,4 on block.

Kung Lao can't reliably punish it with ex spin.
Jin still does more damage than most, and is still safe on his 5050s. They didnt really change anything about him.

Kung Laos cartwheel, EX spin, DK (if you're that fast at inputs)..

Not true, only the ex spin, and he has to block the overhead point blank, so dont bother.


These seem like bad nerfs for bad Kung Jins, the characters still stupid.

 

[Desperdicio]

Lmfao I love how people think King Jim was targeted with these nerfs. Talk about narrow vision. IT WAS A GAME-WIDE FIX.
But no don't buy that from NRS, it's not a fix it's a nerf. Kano's b1, F/T's d1 and f32 and tons of other crap in the game getting fixed was just a part of the Illuminati's plan of nerfing KJ.

Could I borrow your tinfoil hat for a moment?

You misunderstood what I said. I was talking about the "bug" thing someone said: that was ridiculous. That Kung Jin's nerf could help balancing is true, I didn't say otherwise.

 

[Reauxbot]

I used to could mb bo swing, b2~bo swat, ji4~divekick, run~34~bo swing but now the last swing on the swing ender misses so I have to use 3~bo swing finisher and it does 32% vs 39% before

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

The nerfs were moderate and absolutely well deserved, ex overhead smash being advantage on block, f3 and f2,4 being 0 on block was stupid good and definitely borderline OP, not to mention the damage with ez mode combos. You commit to overheads with good range and an armor stuffing normal and expect to still be neutral and have pressure on your opponent? Lol. You still have the threat of jump back dive kick and armor in case your opponent tries to reverse pressure on you and you still have good damage. A character with this much range, easy hit confirms and high damage conversions can't have braindead block pressure as well.

 

[TheGabStandard]

F2,4 being -8 makes it undoubtedly punishable? By who? Kung Lao, Reptile, Liu Kang, and Raiden? Maaaaaaaybe Mileena? That's not a very wide spectrum, on top of their respective best possible punishes not being that impressive and they still have to respect your option to cancel into EX Bo Swing.

Sadly Mileena can't punish this

 

[STRYKIE]

Sadly Mileena can't punish this

I had a feeling she wouldn't be able to lol. My condolences.

 

[TheGabStandard]

I had a feeling she wouldn't be able to lol. My condolences.

Much appreciated

 

[Eijiken]

This entire thread I just read is basically...

-COMMON SENSE POSTS
-THIS NERF SUCKS, BUT ITS TIME TO HIT THE LAB AGAIN AND LEVEL UP

I enjoyed these. Makes me feel alright, plus, it doesn't fully apply to me as I never use flip kick/EX Cartwheel as a pressure ender for safety or for anything outside of stuffing wakeups/dumb shit.

I also read...


-"I can't block string for free now? NRS OVERNERF"
-"IF DAMAGE GOES DOWN, ITS A NERF, THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE GIVEN IT TO HIM IF ITS A BUG"
-"IF A STRING ISN'T + OR 0 ON BLOCK THEN ITS IMMEDIATELY PUNISHABLE BY EVERYONE, WTF NERF"
-"KJ WAS FINE THE WAY HE WAS, THE DAMAGE SCALING SHOULD'VE BEEN THE ONLY NERF"
-"THIS CHANGES THE WAY I HAVE TO PLAY HIM BECAUSE I HAVE LESS SAFE OPTIONS, GG NEW CHAR"
-"NO YOURE WRONG, NRS FRAME DATA SAYS THIS, ITS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT AS REPORTED BECAUSE THEY NEVER MESSED UP FRAME DATA IN THIS GAME"
-"DAMAGE FIX IS CODE FOR NERF, I DON'T DEVELOP GAMES, BUT NRS [9/11 GEORGE BUSH DOESN'T LIKE BLACK PEOPLE SANDY HOOK OBAMA COMMUNIST TERRORIST CHINAGATE BENGHAZI] SCORPION"
-"WHY DIDN'T SCORP GET NERFS LIKE THIS, I CAN'T BLOCK TELEPORTS AND REPTILE
-"KJ IS NOW SCRUB TIER GAIZ, I'M SELLING MY GAME"


I paraphrased some of those.

Those people, I would love to know your address cause I have a literal bag of dicks I want to send you. Step your game up and level up, the salt is ocean levels in here. Instead of going autopilot, how about you actually put more thought into what you blindly throw out there now instead of being free about it. Oh and jesus people, have we forgotten that the fastest normals are 5f (6f coming out of block if they time it poorly) so all your crap about -4 not being safe is only true on special moves that are or beat that on startup...which as someone has said, only a minority of the cast has, so what do you do?

ADAPT AND PLAY DIFFERENTLY AGAINST THEM

Stop making my first competitive MK game awful by whining. You idiots make me want to play someone else with your lowtiergod levels of bitchery.

 

[RelentlessOhio]

For divekick, you have to take into account the frames of height restriction before you're allowed to do an aerial attack (@GGA 16 Bit - are you allowed to clarify how many?). But I'm pretty sure regular spin should work.

I'm not sure how many Frames it takes me but I can DK an opponent from literally 3 feet off the ground. As soon as i jump I can d4

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

This entire thread I just read is basically...

-COMMON SENSE POSTS
-THIS NERF SUCKS, BUT ITS TIME TO HIT THE LAB AGAIN AND LEVEL UP

I enjoyed these. Makes me feel alright, plus, it doesn't fully apply to me as I never use flip kick/EX Cartwheel as a pressure ender for safety or for anything outside of stuffing wakeups/dumb shit.

I also read...


-"I can't block string for free now? NRS OVERNERF"
-"IF DAMAGE GOES DOWN, ITS A NERF, THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE GIVEN IT TO HIM IF ITS A BUG"
-"IF A STRING ISN'T + OR 0 ON BLOCK THEN ITS IMMEDIATELY PUNISHABLE BY EVERYONE, WTF NERF"
-"KJ WAS FINE THE WAY HE WAS, THE DAMAGE SCALING SHOULD'VE BEEN THE ONLY NERF"
-"THIS CHANGES THE WAY I HAVE TO PLAY HIM BECAUSE I HAVE LESS SAFE OPTIONS, GG NEW CHAR"
-"NO YOURE WRONG, NRS FRAME DATA SAYS THIS, ITS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT AS REPORTED BECAUSE THEY NEVER MESSED UP FRAME DATA IN THIS GAME"
-"DAMAGE FIX IS CODE FOR NERF, I DON'T DEVELOP GAMES, BUT NRS [9/11 GEORGE BUSH DOESN'T LIKE BLACK PEOPLE SANDY HOOK OBAMA COMMUNIST TERRORIST CHINAGATE BENGHAZI] SCORPION"
-"WHY DIDN'T SCORP GET NERFS LIKE THIS, I CAN'T BLOCK TELEPORTS AND REPTILE
-"KJ IS NOW SCRUB TIER GAIZ, I'M SELLING MY GAME"


I paraphrased some of those.

Those people, I would love to know your address cause I have a literal bag of dicks I want to send you. Step your game up and level up, the salt is ocean levels in here. Instead of going autopilot, how about you actually put more thought into what you blindly throw out there now instead of being free about it. Oh and jesus people, have we forgotten that the fastest normals are 5f (6f coming out of block if they time it poorly) so all your crap about -4 not being safe is only true on special moves that are or beat that on startup...which as someone has said, only a minority of the cast has, so what do you do?

ADAPT AND PLAY DIFFERENTLY AGAINST THEM

Stop making my first competitive MK game awful by whining. You idiots make me want to play someone else with your lowtiergod levels of bitchery.

Let me explain to you something.

Sonya, LK, Jax all have safe strings. All of them. Kung Jim's advantage was damage and he can pressure too. Now they nerf his damage and take away his safe strings (ie - 11 on block can no longer be used to pressure). So now he is at a disadvantage and literally has to poke the gaps with a 5 frame advantage on hit poke that's like 9 frames start up and try to reverse pressure that he only gets on hit. Now we have these pressure characters that pressure better and have equal damage to Kung Jin. You guys act like NJ2 is the end all be all which makes me laugh cuz you guys claim KJ was brainless and y'all play against him brainless cuz you don't just make him whiff and punish. So now I have to play spacing and punish...but I only have one move that is 7 frame start up or less and I can't full combo off of it like many characters can unless I use meter. You guys don't see the gray area. Y'all just see KJ got nerfed and not KJ's nerfs in relation to other characters.

 

[LiangHuBBB]

ya know what the funniest thing is?
EXACTLY those ppl who have complained / cried about KJ being too strong ye EXACTLY those ppl
will still get owned by any KJ player and they will keep continue complaining until KJ receives the next nerfs
the same happenend to Deathstroke in the past in IGAU and after all the patches + nerfs those who complained still
couldn't dodge any MG shoots or beat Deathstroke lol

anyway a good KJ player will / can still outplay any other character
remember vanilla Guile? lol now thats what I call underpowered
still top players like Dagger G / GeoM MoD > anyone back them
to quote geom mod " they can nerf the character but they cant nerf the player "

 

[TackyHaddock]

I'm not entirely sure if it was the nerfs or the new matchmaking system online that gave me more trouble than usual last night with KJ. On ranked, I was almost exclusively getting matched up with much better players (rather than a mix of noobs, good matchups and better players as it was before). I'm sure it was a combination of both factors, but my opponents were definitely better than usual on ranked last night in terms of wins/losses etc.

Confession - I was getting a wee bit salty.

 

[Mind Flex]

I'm not entirely sure if it was the nerfs or the new matchmaking system online that gave me more trouble than usual last night with KJ. On ranked, I was almost exclusively getting matched up with much better players (rather than a mix of noobs, good matchups and better players as it was before). I'm sure it was a combination of both factors, but my opponents were definitely better than usual on ranked last night in terms of wins/losses etc.

Confession - I was getting a wee bit salty.

I experienced the same thing. I love that I get matched with noobs less, but I think it just might take a little time adjusting to the new frames for 11 and f3. Pressure certainly feels different and I certainly got blown up for doing things that would have worked prepatch. Time to learn the differences and adjust our playstyle. I still think KJ will be at least top 10 because of his range and extra damage conversions.

 

[LiangHuBBB]

I'm not entirely sure if it was the nerfs or the new matchmaking system online that gave me more trouble than usual last night with KJ. On ranked, I was almost exclusively getting matched up with much better players (rather than a mix of noobs, good matchups and better players as it was before). I'm sure it was a combination of both factors, but my opponents were definitely better than usual on ranked last night in terms of wins/losses etc.

Confession - I was getting a wee bit salty.

same here played 25 games today and only vs ppl with a win ratio of 95%+ win / 5 % losses
some of those players were rly good
but whats up with milenas damage
has she always done 40%+ combos ? lol

 

[The_stig]

Needs more nerfing.

Told you he's still op

 

[TackyHaddock]

same here played 25 games today and only vs ppl with a win ratio of 95%+ win / 5 % losses
some of those players were rly good
but whats up with milenas damage
has she always done 40%+ combos ? lol

Yeah - I was starting to wonder whether all the players with less than a 95% win percentage had hit the hills and abandoned ranked forever. I don't need to play noobs to feel good about myself, but I definitely like somewhat of a variety of opponent skill levels, esp. post patch in order to adjust

 

[The_stig]

Who can honestly launch-punish f+2,4? Raiden? Tempest Kung Lao at a very close range?

Jacqui's b,f+1 does not work. Kano's up ball does not work. Sub Zero's slide does not work.

Big FERRA/TORR CAN

Who can honestly launch-punish f+2,4? Raiden? Tempest Kung Lao at a very close range?

Jacqui's b,f+1 does not work. Kano's up ball does not work. Sub Zero's slide does not work.

BIG FERRA/TORR CAN

 

[TheIrishFGCguy]

ya know what the funniest thing is?
EXACTLY those ppl who have complained / cried about KJ being too strong ye EXACTLY those ppl
will still get owned by any KJ player and they will keep continue complaining until KJ receives the next nerfs

Absolutely right. I wish I could like this more than once. Some people just hate how a character plays and will whine no matter what happens to the character. For example, the people who were crying about Grandmaster Sub Zero will continue to cry about him even after the nerfs.