Match-Up Discussion - Bojutsu In Case You Were Wondering Who Beats Bojutsu Kung Jin...

[Error404]

His arrows aren't fast enough to make a difference. And Cage also has ex shadow kick . Also if a kung Jin burns meter on his arrows I'll happily take some damage if means leaving him with wake-up option.

 

[SaltShaker]

I can agree with 5-5, I think Kung Jin has better footsies but Kano's footsies are still good and his zoning is hella good too. You can't dictate a matchup on speculation that one character will spam something with armor tho, it comes down to Kano dealing with KJ pressure

Yea I agree. I've found Kano's backdash, which is probably the best in the game, to be the perfect bailout to some of Kung Jin's normal pressure when not directly in front of him. It's easier for him to make the space needed than most characters as long as the Kano player isn't overly predictable. Also feels like I use less meter in this MU which I gives more to use for breaks, EX Knives pressure traps, EX Ball cancel WU's, etc.

I think its most troublesome when you stay within Jin's footsie range too long as he's one of the few characters that can out-footsie Kano, on knockdown with Jin hovering over you, and in the corner where imminent death can occur.

All in all, I think Cyber Kano is one of the few that can hang with this powerhouse of a character.

 

[KIllaByte]

Thunder God And Master of Storms Raiden cause Kung Jin trouble.
Thunder God builds non-stop meter off of long range multi-hitting uninterruptible lightning strings, which Raiden too can convert off of safely, though not for as much damage. This meterbuilding also means he gets breakers.
Reactionarily Raiden can duck and punish regular arrow, too, meaning Kung Jin has to stay in mid-range, where his B1 and F2 and D+B 4 and B2, 1, 4 or B2, 1, 4+2 are threats-- a range where Raiden probably can;t react.
The threat of any electric fly whiff punish for huge corner carry is huge, and when my Jin is cornered against Raiden, things are tough, considering Raiden has much better low pokes, which are plus on hit, but keep him in range of his 50-50 OH-low on block--- but on hit he absolutely sets Raiden's 50-50 that outdamages ours.
You want to talk about maintaing pressure? Check out our Buffaloy boy Sooneo, the master of storms? He doesn't convert into as much damage as Thunder God, but he gets way more chances to convert with his lightning traps.
In air to air trades, electric fly beats ex divekick, too-- ad Raiden's ex lightning grab is just as amazing of a wakeup as our ex bow spin--- he lunges so far forward for so long, but i can be ducked under, which is nice.

 

[GAV]

I'm kin of a novice when compared to most of the players here. I beat most players, but I know where I stand here - and its towards the bottom.

With that said, I can beat players much better than me using Kung Jin - and I haven't practiced with him very much.

He's just so easy to win with. I don't know about at the upper echelons, but at the level most players are at - he dominates with very little skill or practice.

 

[GAV]

Thunder God And Master of Storms Raiden cause Kung Jin trouble.
Thunder God builds non-stop meter off of long range multi-hitting uninterruptible lightning strings, which Raide ntoo can convert off of safely, though not for as much damage.
The threat of any electric fly whiff punish for huge corner carry is huge, and when my Jin is cornered against Raiden, things are tough, considering Raiden has much better low pokes, which are plus on hit, but keep him in range of his 50-50 OH-low on block--- but on hit he absolutely sets Raiden's 50-50 that outdamages ours.
You want to talk about maintaing pressure? Check out our Buffaloy boy Sooneo, the master of storms? He doesn't convert into as much damage as Thunder God, but he gets way more chances to convert with his lightning traps.

You're talking with high level execution. Kung Jin takes almost no level of execution. Everything with him is just easy. I was pulling off the combos Ryan Hart was doing in that first tournament with very little practice - and those combos were getting oohs and aahs from everyone. I don't know about at higher levels, but he's completely broken on the casual scene.

 

[RM Truth]

I think GM Sub-Zero does well against him.

 

[KIllaByte]

You're talking with high level execution. Kung Jin takes almost no level of execution. Everything with him is just easy. I was pulling off the combos Ryan Hart was doing in that first tournament with very little practice - and those combos were getting oohs and aahs from everyone. I don't know about at higher levels, but he's completely broken on the casual scene.

We don't care about that level of play as much, man.
We broke the skill ceiling here, it's about that MAX level MAXCPM, doesn't matter how easy stuff is.

 

[The_Tile]

Are there any particularly aggressive characters who do well against him? I saw someone suggest A List cage but as a Cage main I think this simply isn't true.

Anyone else think Jin feels like an MK9 character? Not calling for nerfs but he just feels kinda out of place when most, if not all, characters have to work much harder for pretty much everything

 

[NurzBenny]

Kinda calling shenanigans on Jax. Jax has strings that are zero on block, Jin has strings that are zero on block. As a player of both, the confirms for jin are easier, the frames are better, the range is better, dive kick and NJP just wreck house, regardless.

. . . War God Kotal however. That's a character people aren't talking about. That character just does NOT give a flying f**k

 

[KIllaByte]

Are there any particularly aggressive characters who do well against him? I saw someone suggest A List cage but as a Cage main I think this simply isn't true.

Anyone else think Jin feels like an MK9 character? Not calling for nerfs but he just feels kinda out of place when most, if not all, characters have to work much harder for pretty much everything

No, Kung Jin can't do up-close block pressure as well, his fastest non-high hitter that doesn't put him in danger is his B1 or standing 2, and those are both slower than other characters poking tools.
At a range where B1 and F2 can be interruptd, Kung Jin has to guess how to armor out, it seems. OR JUST +4 ON BLOCK METERBURN OVERHEAD FLIP KICK LOL.
No, but even that that can be whiff punished, hard.

 

[Eijiken]

Kinda calling shenanigans on Jax. Jax has strings that are zero on block, Jin has strings that are zero on block. As a player of both, the confirms for jin are easier, the frames are better, the range is better, dive kick and NJP just wreck house, regardless.

. . . War God Kotal however. That's a character people aren't talking about. That character just does NOT give a flying f**k

Just because one character is easier to execute doesn't necessarily mean he's better. Along with Kano, Jax has some of the best OS'es in the game with a dirty tick throw.

As a kotal player...No one talks about him because he gets zoned, and is still a punish oriented character. He auto loses to safe pressure, even with well timed mace parries. His macuixochtl reach is about the same as KJ's reach, but KJ is faster, has better recovery, and his reach comes from normals as opposed to a couple of specials. And as I said before, lol f3

This discussion does make me want to pick up Raiden next potentially...how's the Raiden Subzero MU?

 

[Eijiken]

No, Kung Jin can't do up-close block pressure as well, his fastest non-high hitter that doesn't put him in danger is his B1 or standing 2, and those are both slower than other characters poking tools.
At a range where B1 and F2 can be interruptd, Kung Jin has to guess how to armor out, it seems. OR JUST +4 ON BLOCK METERBURN OVERHEAD FLIP KICK LOL.
No, but even that that can be whiff punished, hard.

This. I get lucky with Ex flip kicks/bo spins when i'm getting pressured. Along with flying kicks, its his only "get off me" moves, but they're all still hella unsafe

 

[KIllaByte]

This. I get lucky with Ex flip kicks/bo spins when i'm getting pressured. Along with flying kicks, its his only "get off me" moves, but they're all still hella unsafe

EX flip kick is less than unsafe, it's advantage, but the rewards from flip kick are lots less than armored Bo Spin or Bow swat.

 

[GAV]

Just because one character is easier to execute doesn't necessarily mean he's better. Along with Kano, Jax has some of the best OS'es in the game with a dirty tick throw.

As a kotal player...No one talks about him because he gets zoned, and is still a punish oriented character. He auto loses to safe pressure, even with well timed mace parries. His macuixochtl reach is about the same as KJ's reach, but KJ is faster, has better recovery, and his reach comes from normals as opposed to a couple of specials. And as I said before, lol f3

This discussion does make me want to pick up Raiden next potentially...how's the Raiden Subzero MU?

My characters are Sun Kotal and Thunder Raiden. Now, I'm more casual than most here, but I actually switch from Thunder God to one of the other styles to deal with GM Sub Zero. Thunder God just doesn't match up well. The other two do though.

 

[LiangHuBBB]

kung Jin > jac briggs, scorp, subzero, Kitana and Liu ?
put two players on the same skill lvl on a FT10 Kung Jin will probably end up losing every set

 

[The_Tile]

This. I get lucky with Ex flip kicks/bo spins when i'm getting pressured. Along with flying kicks, its his only "get off me" moves, but they're all still hella unsafe

Its not Jin breaking out of my pressure that's the main issue, I just feel that no matter how much I pressure him all it takes is one wrong guess/move on my behalf then I'm getting blown up and I'm back to square one or sometimes Jin even has the life lead. If you're pressuring Jin there is literally no room for error, at all. While I do love playing aggressively, I think I'll just stick to Grandmaster Sub for this MU, it actually gets quite fun to play when you learn how to space Jin properly.

 

[Epy69zSmallBoys]

@CoRzz Jin Yeah , no. Cages forceballs do more damage and have more hit stun. You're not gonna outzone shit.

No. Just no.

 

[coolwhip]

If a KJ player doesn't know how to play the MU, he'll get blown up 100% of the time.

This means nothing, and applies to most match-ups, and shouldn't be a talking point. If someone doesn't know the match-up then there is no discussion worth having.

 

[Sultani]

except no iagb or nomad dash cancels.


mb flying kick. if I lose to a Quan Chi, it's cuz his vortex...not his zoning.



Absolutely not, mb flying kick gets blown up by Reptile's ball unless it's close to the beginning of the flying kick. Kung Jin HAS to walk in/jump in and his jump is shit. I've never played a Quan Chi that blew me up with zoning and I've played Wonder Chef lol



Sub Zero does well but he doesn't win. I realized that after playing that SubZeroooos guy or whatever tf his name is. You can't jump in tho, but if you focus on spacing, Kung Jin goes even with GMSZ.



So my game plan is the roll away against somebody with better zoning tools than me? You may not know this but Kung Jin's best tool for getting in vs zoners is MB Flying Kick...towards the end of the flight, his armor becomes a weak bitch. If Reptile throws out a slow ball on read, KJ gets popped up.



You don't understand how good his MB Flying Kick is lol It's not even hella negative on block.



From my experience, Cage sucks against KJ's zoning options. I have played hella lame against him and he couldn't really do much.


There won't be a Reptile bandwagon because I said he beats KJ lol he may not even, it may just be me leveling up. But I feel like there is obvious, glaring issues for KJ vs Reptile. But you can't be some scrandy randy just auto selecting Reptile to beat KJ. It's still KJ lol you have to be good.



It's to the point where I've only not played 16Bit's Kitana lol Kung Jin makes Kitana his bitch. You duck her projectiles and then when you get up close, Kitana is a goner. I've said this 15 times in this post haha but MB Flying Kick on reaction vs zoners, it works. Not against Full Auto Jacqui, you actually have to play patiently vs her, I agree. But once KJ is in, Jacqui's footsie tools are shit. I try to tell Jacqui players not to try to outfootsie KJ, you'll lose every time. I've never had a hard time against a Jacqui.


I don't think Liu Kang particularly beats KJ, Liu Kang's pressure is just an issue for everybody but Kung Jin hits way harder. If you counter anything Liu Kang does, you're doing like 18% more damage and LK players have to respect that. I think they go even.

thought you were talking about ball setups on a knockdown from like a juggle into 14 or f21.

 

[Psyren136]

So.. basically like a #9 tier again?

He's looking to be at high tier level. He definitely isn't top tier, But he's not mid either. At least from what we have seen so far. Who knows how that will change around.

 

[PND OmegaK]

Its not Jin breaking out of my pressure that's the main issue, I just feel that no matter how much I pressure him all it takes is one wrong guess/move on my behalf then I'm getting blown up and I'm back to square one or sometimes Jin even has the life lead. If you're pressuring Jin there is literally no room for error, at all. While I do love playing aggressively, I think I'll just stick to Grandmaster Sub for this MU, it actually gets quite fun to play when you learn how to space Jin properly.

It's the same against a lot of characters though since armour is so prominent in this game. If you make the right read you can blow him up, the guessing game is the same accross the cast. Jin is just able to capitalize a lot more than other characters can from their launchers.

 

[Eijiken]

kung Jin > jac briggs, scorp, subzero, Kitana and Liu ?
put two players on the same skill lvl on a FT10 Kung Jin will probably end up losing every set

LOL WUT elaborate

Its not Jin breaking out of my pressure that's the main issue, I just feel that no matter how much I pressure him all it takes is one wrong guess/move on my behalf then I'm getting blown up and I'm back to square one or sometimes Jin even has the life lead. If you're pressuring Jin there is literally no room for error, at all. While I do love playing aggressively, I think I'll just stick to Grandmaster Sub for this MU, it actually gets quite fun to play when you learn how to space Jin properly.

Yeah I think that's what makes him scary...his constant 50/50s and ability to swing a match in his favor basically means that your game has to be on point against him. Spacing him out is the thing to do against him...See Pig's Winner's Finals with Kenshi vs Forever King's KJ. Zone properly and keep KJ at a good range and you got him in. Basically this:

It's the same against a lot of characters though since armour is so prominent in this game. If you make the right read you can blow him up, the guessing game is the same accross the cast. Jin is just able to capitalize a lot more than other characters can from their launchers.

 

[Zoidberg747]

. . . War God Kotal however. That's a character people aren't talking about. That character just does NOT give a flying f**k

War God Kotal is a bill, you need to learn the MU. Kung Jin can punish a majority of his stuff for crazy damage. The MU is definitely in Kung Jins favor.

 

[CURBOLICOUS]

Disclaimer: I have not played the best player of each character, yet. I will admit that. That being said, it is obvious to see what kills Bojustu Kung Jin. I believe it's pretty simple to understand who he has a problem with. Rest of the match-ups are near even or he wins, probably.


You can't outzone Kung Jin, he gets in.
You can't outfootsie Kung Jin, he has the range and mix-ups.
You can't outjump him, his nj2 is 2nd best in game.

So how do you beat him?

You have to maintain pressure, be able to close gaps, and have better zoning tools. There are only 2 characters that have these tools:
Jax and Reptile.

I am confident that Jax and Reptile, both, beat Kung Jin.

Jax's Superman Punch and Reptile's Slide punish Kung Jin jump badly.
Their constant in-your-face pressure is hard for Kung Jin to deal with...I know what you're saying "mb wake-up tho or block"...have you tried blocking a good Jax's corner pressure or a good Reptile's ball setups? lol good luck.
They both have better zoning options than Kung Jin, as Jax's mb pink shit hits low and Reptile's balls' speed can be controlled.

All Kung Jin can do is try to punish (hard cuz Jax is safe on a lot of his shit apparently) and then rely on 11 pressure.

Another reason why Reptile and Jax are so good vs Kung Jin is in order for a Kung Jin to control the match, he has to dictate the pace and the spacing...which is easy for him to do. Rep and Jax, both, have start-up strings that advance really really well, literally taking away Kung Jin's control over spacing. Not to mention their fast moving slide and superman punch can punish Kung Jin for trying to maintain the spacing.


Obviously, it's not going to be a free win for Reptile and Jax players, I'm just saying there is a good chance that Kung Jin loses to these characters. Reptile variation doesn't matter, Jax has better chance with Wrestler.

Play my liu kang

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

..... lets all get one thing... kinda straight here

NO ONE does "fine" against Kung Jin

Once more of the Kung Jins start adapting to Slayer's style...... it is over.

he literally has every tool to take advantage of this system.

The only characters that will "give him problems" are those that basically do the same thing he does... make you guess on block and convert to large damage.

He also has the added advantage of making YOU guess which wakeup he might do... because one is punishable and the other puts YOU back into the grinder. lol. yeesh.