Oh really? Damn I legit didn't know that, thanks.That means that the blast is on the screen for a total of 601 frames, whereas the recovery time is 601-549 or 52 frames (so on wiff).
Oh really? Damn I legit didn't know that, thanks.That means that the blast is on the screen for a total of 601 frames, whereas the recovery time is 601-549 or 52 frames (so on wiff).
agree/disagree saying he's the lowest is crazy talk right now, but I do believe he will be low without a few buffs the key to shinnk ( said before by someone) is good spacing and letting u r opponent react. When he has the life lead it's scary for sure.I hate asking for buffs this early, but Shinnok is fun, but he can't compete with the rest of the cast right now. All he has are gimmicks, once people figure them out, he has very limited options.
Boneshaper I still believe is his best Variation. B3 1 d2 being -5 on block means it's safe vs most of the cast. And you can create an Aquman like mixup canceling into low scoop. Problem is that it's a gamble, and low scoop is like -100 on block. The f22 throw standing reset isn't good when the only mixup after it is throw, go low, or block.
His zoning is terrible. In all variations. If he actually could do moves without feeling like he's drunk and underwater, maybe he could zone some people out. Like in Boneshaper if the unblockable was like 29 startup frames instead of 39, and had like 15 frames of recovery instead of 23, maybe it would be decent.
All he needs is less start up and less recovery, and he would be playable. Right now, he's almost definitely LAST on the tier list.
Loved your Shinnok at GGA SFN! Was happy to see the Imposter in particular. You went for the throw mix up a lot after Mimicry, but do you find using his 50/50 mix up with low teleport into njp/empty land b3 useful at all?!I don't think we should call for buffs as of now. I am going to play him for a solid month before I decide if the rumors are true that he is bad.
His 6 frame b3 is godlike, by the way. Hit an opponent with a few of them into a full combo as a counter poke and watch the ton of respect they give you.
I heard of that one man but havent tried it. I know batman had that type of thing but no one used it lol. so not sure if its viable.Loved your Shinnok at GGA SFN! Was happy to see the Imposter in particular. You went for the throw mix up a lot after Mimicry, but do you find using his 50/50 mix up with low teleport into njp/empty land b3 useful at all?!
Yes yes and god yes. I hate this string right now but this would be PERFECT.-Lastly, dramatically increase the startup and make his 22 string hit Overhead, Mid.
I find it hilarious how many people have come in this thread, said Bone Shaper sucks, then went into the lab after we've told them what it has and the person has come back with a new appreciation for it. With that in mind I have no idea why the hell people are saying Necromancer is his best and Bone Shaper is his worst, it's the other way round for me
I mean look at it this way:
Bone Shaper: arguably better footsie tools, an o v e r h e a d *cue Hallelujah* which can be mixed up with his low scoop that he also gets in this variation, a standing reset (although neutral but we have a 6 frame low so not all is lost)
Necromancer: safe flick.....that can be ran past. "Zoning" moves, some of which can be WALKED past never mind ran past.
No joke I'm having no luck zoning with Necromancer and I'm unfortunately going to have to do the same as what some of the other guys in this thread have said they're going to do and wait and see if/how Shinnok changes because I'm managing to do what I want to do better with another/other character(s)
Yes yes and god yes. I hate this string right now but this would be PERFECT.
That looks really useful; I like it. But something to know about it that I discovered after testing it a bit myself: you have to run up before the b3 to get this to work airtight on other characters mid-screen, and it's a really strict timing. I'm not going to test all the characters, but Kung Lao and Mileena are two examples; they seem to recoil backward from the EX amulet more than Scorpion does.Don't know if anyone beat me to the punch but you can actually go into a safe block string for chip (but costing you meter).
-snip-
It's also not a true blockstring as far as I can tell. They can armor out as the startup on EX amulet leaves a gap.That looks really useful; I like it. But something to know about it that I discovered after testing it a bit myself: you have to run up before the b3 to get this to work airtight on other characters mid-screen, and it's a really strict timing. I'm not going to test all the characters, but Kung Lao and Mileena are two examples; they seem to recoil backward from the EX amulet more than Scorpion does.
yup but not after the 3,2,1 string iircIt's also not a true blockstring as far as I can tell. They can armor out as the startup on EX amulet leaves a gap. Or rather it leaves a gap on the longer one, F2,2,4. 3,1,2 amulet is clean.
It's still early but initial impressions aren't great. Shinnok requires a lot of effort for mediocre reward so far.Guys i came here to find my second character, my main is jax ? Am i on the right place? I like necromancer is he any good?
According to the system guide thread by Tom Brady, if you mean 7 frame or slower normals, that would make f22 -8 since it takes a frame to leave blockstun and there's "no just frame punishes" (I think what he means by that is the startup doesn't include the first active frame). Special moves (and reversal throws and backdashes) apparently cancel that frame of leaving blockstun, though. And yeah, though I haven't gotten a chance to actually play the game yet (tomorrow hopefully), I think people in general are underrating the safety of attacks in the -6 to -8 range.really good news, turns out the frame data in the game for f22 is wrong and it actually can't be punished by a move thats 7 frames or slower. in every fighting game that would mean hes -6 but i think in mk i heard letting go of block takes a frame so that would make it -7? i heard injustice was something similar but i honestly didn't even look at the frame data that much outside of my own character and just knew what was punishable and what wasn't punishable and what the best punishers were. i was a lot less of a numbers kind of guy back then than i am now
anyways besides the point this means that there are a handful of characters that can't punish it that don't have 6 frame jabs, so its not unsafe to everyone. so if you're playing against a character that can't punish it you can kinda spam the hell out of it lmfao
According to the system guide thread by Tom Brady, if you mean 7 frame or slower normals, that would make f22 -8 since it takes a frame to leave blockstun and there's "no just frame punishes" (I think what he means by that is the startup doesn't include the first active frame). Special moves (and reversal throws and backdashes) apparently cancel that frame of leaving blockstun, though. And yeah, though I haven't gotten a chance to actually play the game yet (tomorrow hopefully), I think people in general are underrating the safety of attacks in the -6 to -8 range.
EDIT: Clicked "post" before I was done >_<. Just checked in game and the block advantage for f22 is -8, so it matches up with the system guide.
Yes, and I agree. I tested it myself as well, just in case. Did something in my post indicate I thought otherwise? If a move is punishable by 6 frame or faster normals, it is -8; 1 extra frame to leave block animation, and another to reach first active frame (at least I believe that's what Tom Brady meant when he said the game had "no frame perfect punishes").i said that a 7 frame move CANNOT punish it. i tested it out with quan chi's standing 2 and mileena's d2, which are both 7 frame moves
edited my original post. i just read it to fast, forgive me its super late at night and its 4/20 so i apologize for being an idiotYes, and I agree. I tested it myself as well, just in case. Did something in my post indicate I thought otherwise? If a move is punishable by 6 frame or faster normals, it is -8; 1 extra frame to leave block animation, and another to reach first active frame (at least I believe that's what Tom Brady meant when he said the game had "no frame perfect punishes").
"In order to punish with a normal attack you need to use a normal that is at least 2 frames faster then the opponents negative frames."
Nah, it's cool, I saw it. I guess I'm just not good at being clear? Similar thing happened in the combo thread when I asked about the Impostor vortex, lol. I would like your input on that by the way since you had said you were looking into (and hopefully using) the vortex heavily, but I realized only now that I hadn't formatted the tag on my post right, so I'm not sure you saw it.edited my original post. i just read it to fast, forgive me its super late at night and its 4/20 so i apologize for being an idiot
Nah, it's cool, I saw it. I guess I'm just not good at being clear? Similar thing happened in the combo thread when I asked about the Impostor vortex, lol. I would like your input on that by the way since you had said you were looking into (and hopefully using) the vortex heavily, but I realized only now that I hadn't formatted the tag on my post right, so I'm not sure you saw it.