General/Other - Shinnok Shinnok General Discussion Thread

[Eji1700]

Stuff that punishes 3 hit hellspark on block;
Basically any reversal that moves them forward whatsoever.
Basically every teleport.

None of the above requires meter

This is not really a good thing. In fact it's down right obnoxious since 2 of his styles only have single hit lows to confirm off of, which forces the commitment to the special in advance. It's even sillier considering how badly the move can whiff.

 

[regulas]

Stuff that punishes 3 hit hellspark on block;
Basically any reversal that moves them forward whatsoever.
Basically every teleport.

None of the above requires meter

This is not really a good thing. In fact it's down right obnoxious since 2 of his styles only have single hit lows to confirm off of, which forces the commitment to the special in advance. It's even sillier considering how badly the move can whiff.

Hellsparks is mostly a punish tool or combo extender, if they jump especially it's extremly easy to catch people with it which gives you a combo. None of shins specials but Flick should ever be used willy nilly except in scenarios you know it's fine.

 

[Pandamoniumz]

Yea I think hellspark should serve as mostly a punish tool, confirmed special, and space controller. I think the best way to assure its balanced is to make it so if you combo into hellspark on block you only get 2 hits and the 3rd whiffs so you can be punished. Using it from a bit of range to control space should usually get you all 3 on block, which should be safe. To accommodate this, I think all shinnok variants should have another hit added to b3 string so they can at least have a shot at confirming instead of just b3~spark and hoping for the best.

 

[RM_NINfan101]

Just hit the lab again, B31 is definitely a very good normal that I had overlooked. Definitely makes this worth looking into knowint that. Previously i had only really looked at the spafe or F22 but this is a much better replacement for the loss of his original F22 in necro for sure.

Definitely think ALL of Shinnok's variations are viable and useful. I personally like that df2 is a low and adds a bit of mixup he did not have in Necro (as well as the previously mentioned safe b3,1,d2 string) but love Necro for it's outstanding zoning and oki.

I do need to learn Impostor but that will be a project in itself.

Also glad to have @xSMoKEx as a part of the Shinnok army. Man finds great tech along with logical uses for things. Let me know what you think of my EX grab setups too BTW.

 

[keo-bas]

great stuff, i was at first concern about picking up shinnok but the more I read and hear the more he seem like my character. I played ares in injustice and i think shinnok is a bit similar. granted Ares had ways to open people up but it was risky to the point it was better suited at punishing.

 

[Pandamoniumz]

@RM_NINfan101 The problem is that df2 being low isnt a bit of a mixup. Still no reason to block anything but low. Only way to mixup I suppose is 1123 and 112~df2. But thats far too risky for the reward.

 

[Malec]

@RM_NINfan101 The problem is that df2 being low isnt a bit of a mixup. Still no reason to block anything but low. Only way to mixup I suppose is 1123 and 112~df2. But thats far too risky for the reward.

you havent checked his new strings in Bone Shaper, have you? xD

 

[Pandamoniumz]

you havent checked his new strings in Bone Shaper, have you? xD

Runs into the same situation. b3, 1, d2 or b3, 1, df2. Super risky for the df2.

 

[Malec]

why, a 50/50 shouldnt be safe, if its leads to combos

 

[Pandamoniumz]

why, a 50/50 shouldnt be safe, if its leads to combos

I agree, but NRS doesnt seem to. Seems like a good chunk of the cast has pretty safe 50/50's. Regardless, mixing in the low special in that string from time to time will definitely be a necessary risk in bone shaper.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

i agree that 50/50s shouldn't be safe but if pretty much everyone has safe 50/50s its kinda shitty when its unsafe

 

[XxSYNDROISxX]

I'm just hoping in the near patches that they change the priorities of his attacks come on Netherrealm give us an overhead Lol

 

[legion666]

The reasonable thing would be to make his sparks safe, or at least to have the ability to burn meter to make it safe:/

 

[Wemfs]

[BONE SHAPER]
I feel like Shinnok needs something extra.

I feel like he's missing something and will end up being low tier if he doesn't get certain changes.

These are just feelings I'm getting about him.

Lacking overheads for mix-ups. The only overheads he has are his 1,1,2,(3) and B3,1,(D2). Low damage meterless combos. Can't really open anyone up without risking a DF2 low that you need to use a bar on if you want to get any real damage out of it. Everything is unsafe. His pressure game is lacking.

I really want Shinnok to be my guy because he's the only one that really appeals to me right now, but as of late, he's been making me SIGH every time I use him.

Maybe I need to switch variations. *shrug*

 

[Youphemism]

I really want Shinnok to be my guy because he's the only one that really appeals to me right now, but as of late, he's been making me SIGH every time I use him.

Maybe I need to switch variations. *shrug*

I know the feeling. With no Fujin *sobs quietly* I said I would main Shinnok but there's nothing making it worth it right now

 

[Juggs]

Yeah I'm fairly certain that Shinnok is a shitter, hopefully I'm wrong but atm he pales in comparison to all the 50/50s and zoning that can't be ran through.

He's pretty bad honestly.

 

[Eji1700]

Hellsparks is mostly a punish tool or combo extender, if they jump especially it's extremly easy to catch people with it which gives you a combo. None of shins specials but Flick should ever be used willy nilly except in scenarios you know it's fine.

I know, but the problem is his ONLY mixup in imposter is setup into teleport, and then either njP/K or b3. The issue is that since b3 doesn't lead to any string, you MUST buffer the hellspark after the low hit, making his only mixup liable to get you punished if blocked correctly. I get we don't want safe 50/50, but in my world the ideal would be a "negative" 50/50 on block. Instead shinnok is looking at a combo punish from anyone with a teleport and some meter, and a few people who don't. It's really discouraging.

Edit- and again, this is on a skill which when done on block from b3, his best and really only low for mixups, will whiff the 3rd hit and leave you open for a full combo punish from basically the entire cast.

 

[regulas]

I know, but the problem is his ONLY mixup in imposter is setup into teleport, and then either njP/K or b3. The issue is that since b3 doesn't lead to any string, you MUST buffer the hellspark after the low hit, making his only mixup liable to get you punished if blocked correctly. I get we don't want safe 50/50, but in my world the ideal would be a "negative" 50/50 on block. Instead shinnok is looking at a combo punish from anyone with a teleport and some meter, and a few people who don't. It's really discouraging.

Edit- and again, this is on a skill which when done on block from b3, his best and really only low for mixups, will whiff the 3rd hit and leave you open for a full combo punish from basically the entire cast.

Well first and formost I do have to say I believe that Imposter is not usable as air teleport is just not a good enough tool compared to the shaper strings or necro zoning and that mimmick not being able to directly combo off of is just sigh... Imposter got the Kotal Blood treatment. He can get high theoretical damage so they nerfed him to the ground.

Secondly stop using specials after strings. You don't have to. They are all so unsafe that other then flick you want to specialise in punishing, which means you read a jump or dash or block an unsafe string.

 

[Malec]

have anyone tried Bone Shaper f2,2,1+3 online? in practise mode I can do this string with f2,2,L1 (my ps4 throw button) but online it dosent work for me, anyone with the same problem?

 

[Nrdify]

My take on shinnok is that his zoning is okay, if your going against the reactions equivalent to a rock. You can just run past everything he does. Also, all his moves are super negative. No mix-ups really either. Definitely needs buffs. Please let me know if I'm missing something.

 

[Malec]

My take on shinnok is that his zoning is okay, if your going against the reactions equivalent to a rock. You can just run past everything he does. Also, all his moves are super negative. No mix-ups really either. Definitely needs buffs. Please let me know if I'm missing something.

you dont, I also think he need some buffs, he lacks in every departmend.
-no meterless combos and overall low combo damage even with meter
-very few strings and the ones he has suck for the most part (to slow, not enough range or just to unsafe)
-most specials are unsafe, (I think Necromancer Flick is the only safe one?)
-barely any mixups

 

[regulas]

have anyone tried Bone Shaper f2,2,1+3 online? in practise mode I can do this string with f2,2,L1 (my ps4 throw button) but online it dosent work for me, anyone with the same problem?

1+3 will only come out if you hit, won't come out on block, also I do find the timing is pretty precise (you need to 1+3 fast enough) so online the delay may be hurting you.

 

[Malec]

1+3 will only come out if you hit, won't come out on block, also I do find the timing is pretty precise (you need to 1+3 fast enough) so online the delay may be hurting you.

yeah I know it only comes on hit, my problem is, the string works with the throw button for me in practise mode, but it dosent so online, f2,2,1+3 works fine, f2,2,throw button (L1 in my case) dosent

 

[Skylight1]

God, its like Boneshaper Shinnok and I are just getting along so well tonight. F22, Bone Slam EX and 112 hell sparks (not original at making combos, I know), is heavenly to me. Isn't his F22 safe on block too?

 

[Malec]

God, its like Boneshaper Shinnok and I are just getting along so well tonight. F22, Bone Slam EX and 112 hell sparks (not original at making combos, I know), is heavenly to me. Isn't his F22 safe on block too?

no his F22 is extremly unsafe