Batman FINAL Matchup Chart

[ForeverKing]

The only thing that sucks is that both players have such huge egos that the only thing that changes their MU numbers is losing a tournament set, which likely won't happen in the weeks and years to come. Like, if they could have an argument and change each other's minds, that would be great. Wonderful, even. We might get some, dare I say, juicy discussion. But alas, we're stuck with another thread where King and Cowboy kill the thing arguing the same shitty points.

I do argue my points with gameplay related topics that have nothing to do with player skill. But what do you want me to say if I think Batman vs Sinestro is a 5-5, and Cowboy thinks it's Batman's favor, but I disagree with all his talking points?

What do you expect me to do?

 

[ForeverKing]

Okay, when?

Final Round preferably. But if not there then Combo Breaker or TCW or Evo

 

[Peckapowa]

This is a great matchup chart. Borderline perfect. The only thing I respectfully disagree with is the bane number. I still think batman wins this matchup 6-4, but I respect anyone who thinks it's 5-5. Harley is basically the only character I feel like I haven't played at a truly high level so I will take your word for it that she beats him.

Also, this batman sinestro talk is crazy. I can't fathom why anyone would think batman wins after reading all of those explanations. Batman has to waste trait to stop sinestro from charging his trait. Once he wastes trait, sinestro has every advantage in the world, including one of the top 3 best d2s for anti airing Batman's j2. Without trait batman can't punish b12 and if he hangs on to trait sinestro just walks back and can start charging trait again. Also, when batman uses trait to stop sinestro from charging his, he loses the only anti air option he has for sinestro jumping in. He can't anti air sinestro for shit outside if beating him with an air to air. Batman does well and has the clear advantage when he backs sin in the corner and when he knocks him down. I agree with kings 5-5 number.

Sinestros d2 isn't that quick, unless the batman has bad spacing it's not really comparable to aquaman. Also batman has scatter bombs for air control

 

[Peckapowa]

I do argue my points with gameplay related topics that have nothing to do with player skill. But what do you want me to say if I think Batman vs Sinestro is a 5-5, and Cowboy thinks it's Batman's favor, but I disagree with all his talking points?

What do you expect me to do?

But if you beat him doesn't that prove his point and vice versa??? The top batman losing would make it seem 5-5 and cowboy losing would make it seem 6-4 batman.

 

[KingHippo]

I do argue my points with gameplay related topics that have nothing to do with player skill. But what do you want me to say if I think Batman vs Sinestro is a 5-5, and Cowboy thinks it's Batman's favor, but I disagree with all his talking points?

What do you expect me to do?

Hey, trust me, Cowboy came in swinging first, but you're both irrational as hell. "X char can [insert move here] 99% of Y char [insert move here]" is almost always a dumb talking point. We're not robots, we're human beings and if you have a good tool, it becomes a factor not a guarantee in a match. Sinestro having a good d2 is a solid point that is almost balanced out by saying Batman's jump is quick, he has aerial mobility options and and has the advantage of being hard to anti air as a cross up attack due to the speed and hitbox of the move. Yet both of you use that as "Sinestro can't anti air Batman" and "Batman can't jump on Sinestro". It's silly.

Your assumptions are probably closer to the truth, but I'm just not a fan of most of the talking points, they sound far too concrete. From my neutral point of view, the biggest point Batman has is that he can punish B12, which is clearly a problem but also takes a certain tool that Batman must activate first. At the same time, Sinestro can convert many hits into a very disadvantageous position for Batman, and Batman can do very little to stop Sinestro offense up close without using a bat. You both have silly oki, so that's a wash. Really, it seems like if Batman has a trait out he gains quite a few options, but if he doesn't or Sinestro has his own trait out, things can get hairy quickly and neither can really afford a hit. Sounds like a wash to me because there are a few variables that can constantly swing back and forth over the course of the match.

This sounds different to me then, say, the Aquaman match for both, because they have nothing to threaten Trident Rush with and their formerly deadly oki game doesn't work out quite as well due to his trait. There are very little situations that don't come up daisies for Aquaman, which is a problem that both characters face and why it's commonly cited as a difficult match up. Clearly, they lack for options there from the character select screen, but it doesn't seem to be the case here. There's a lot of interesting factors/situations will take place over the course of the match and seems to be mostly dictated by a player's ability to make the most of one or two opportunities. Neither of you seem to be able to coast on one thing, which probably means its closer to a stalemate.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

Hey, trust me, Cowboy came in swinging first, but you're both irrational as hell. "X char can [insert move here] 99% of Y char [insert move here]" is almost always a dumb talking point. We're not robots, we're human beings and if you have a good tool, it becomes a factor not a guarantee in a match. Sinestro having a good d2 is a solid point that is almost balanced out by saying Batman's jump is quick, he has aerial mobility options and and has the advantage of being hard to anti air as a cross up attack due to the speed and hitbox of the move. Yet both of you use that as "Sinestro can't anti air Batman" and "Batman can't jump on Sinestro". It's silly.

Your assumptions are probably closer to the truth, but I'm just not a fan of most of the talking points, they sound far too concrete. From my neutral point of view, the biggest point Batman has is that he can punish B12, which is clearly a problem but also takes a certain tool that Batman must activate first. At the same time, Sinestro can convert many hits into a very disadvantageous position for Batman, and Batman can do very little to stop Sinestro offense up close without using a bat. You both have silly oki, so that's a wash. Really, it seems like if Batman has a trait out he gains quite a few options, but if he doesn't or Sinestro has his own trait out, things can get hairy quickly and neither can really afford a hit. Sounds like a wash to me because there are a few variables that can constantly swing back and forth over the course of the match.

This sounds different to me then, say, the Aquaman match for both, because they have nothing to threaten Trident Rush with and their formerly deadly oki game doesn't work out quite as well due to his trait. There are very little situations that don't come up daisies for Aquaman, which is a problem that both characters face and why it's commonly cited as a difficult match up. Clearly, they lack for options there from the character select screen, but it doesn't seem to be the case here. There's a lot of interesting factors/situations will take place over the course of the match and seems to be mostly dictated by a player's ability to make the most of one or two opportunities. Neither of you seem to be able to coast on one thing, which probably means its closer to a stalemate.

I'm still not getting how sinestro's trait is that big of a deal in this particular match. Against most characters, he can use it to get a vortex/combo but against batman he is getting 5% at best because of the bats. Sinestro's trait is canceled out by batman's and batman has the trait very often. I also disagree about sinestro's offense; it is garbo. Both his overhead and low options are punishable and batman's jump arc and normals are far superior to sinestro's. Batman has the defensive tools to keep sinestro out, and sinestro is forced to come in.

Also, this is just my opinion but i actually do think that injustice's matchups and matchup tactics are concrete. This is mainly because mobility is so terrible, and is also the reason why there are so many lopsided matchups in the game. Options in MUs are limited by the engine and this is ultimately why Injustice is unimteresting and stale in my opinion. It's not surprising that the game is dead.

 

[haketh]

He SHOULDN'T be trying to get in. The D2 thing is BS and you KNOW it. Smart Batmen only jump when they are in Sinestro's face, because Sinestro cannot D2 them on reaction at that range. And no, you will not beat my Sinestro with Batman, and your Sinestro will also not beat my Batman.

If he's int hat range where he's jumping in on your face isn't that the range you can dash under him during the jump to get away or walk forward under him & antiair with B1, 2 after?

 

[ForeverKing]

But if you beat him doesn't that prove his point and vice versa??? The top batman losing would make it seem 5-5 and cowboy losing would make it seem 6-4 batman.

Not really. Because I still stand by the fact that I body every Batman with Sinestro. My Sinestro makes the matchup look like 6-4 Sinestro's favor.

I just zone Batman out until he gets into footsies range than I play footsies, if he jumps at me he's getting anti aired. If he gets in on me, I don't care I just block because Batman doesn't have mixups and can't open me up. What is he going to do? And if I happen to get you in the vortex and keep guessing right, that's a lot of free damage for me. Honestly it seems like Sinestro's favor when I fight vs Batman

 

[KingHippo]

I'm still not getting how sinestro's trait is that big of a deal in this particular match. Against most characters, he can use it to get a vortex/combo but against batman he is getting 5% at best because of the bats. Sinestro's trait is canceled out by batman's and batman has the trait very often. I also disagree about sinestro's offense; it is garbo. Both his overhead and low options are punishable and batman's jump arc and normals are far superior to sinestro's. Batman has the defensive tools to keep sinestro out, and sinestro is forced to come in.

Also, this is just my opinion but i actually do think that injustice's matchups and matchup tactics are concrete. This is mainly because mobility is so terrible, and is also the reason why there are so many lopsided matchups in the game. Options in MUs are limited by the engine and this is ultimately why Injustice is unimteresting and stale in my opinion. It's not surprising that the game is dead.

That's why you're talking points end up stinking half the time. "X beats Y" is not a valid point anywhere, and that becomes a problem when you're talking about a tool as versatile and unique as Sinestro's trait. In fact, one could argue that Batman and Sinestro have very similar traits, except one is expected to be charged up longer (This can be argued that Sinestro has stronger options in the mid range game and thus the trait supplements rather than fuels his game). Also, you're saying his offense is garbo without recognizing Batman's defensive issues such as poor pokes and below average anti air capabilities, particularly without trait. It's the context that you always seem to miss, and it makes your points land flat when they should soar.

I don't necessarily disagree with your opinion, but I do think it's misguided. I would agree that Injustice can be stale and a little linear at the highest level of play because the mobility is poor, but I think the bad matchups and everything that goes into that has everything to do with out of control tools. In MK, we had the same thing: incredibly poor matchups because the tools were so overwhelmingly strong. Mobility is bad, but it doesn't mean that Flash and Catwoman can't have a highly intensive neutral game match with a lot of factors going in and out. However, Aquaman's particular set of tools bottlenecks the game into a really bad one for Catwoman because of how those tools interact with Catwomans. The bad mobility and long stages just mean that the game is simpler to break down, but I don't think it's the main reason why matchups are so bad.

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

Talking about Harley Quinn's corner game

If any character in the game forces Batman to have to wake-up slide...he's at best going even.

How the hell do you hit a move and still be in enough negative frames to get hit as you're getting up?? Fuck Slide. So Hard.

 

[Rude]

I don't know if Wonder Woman is even. I'm far from TEH BAST BUTMAN EVUUURRR but it's a match-up I struggle in quite a bit. Her + on block pressure, the fact that so many of your strings whiff on her hitbox, trait whiffing on her if she does a d3, and her oki game, and her corner game, and her meterless damage and I'm not so sure.

I don't buy this "Wonder Woman gets zoned out" talking point. At least, not where Batman is concerned. Batarangs aren't enough to keep her out.

But, I'm welcome to hear other opinions.

 

[M2Dave]

This is mainly because mobility is so terrible...

Fool, stop using anti-zoning zealot arguments. The lack of mobility is compensated by certain special moves and traits for the vast majority of the better characters in the game. I wish Batgirl and Martian Manhunter had better mobility but no teleports.

 

[EMPEROR_JUPITER]

@FOREVER KING
What makes you think MMH is a possibly 7-3? I've always felt MMH had a pretty big advantage. But 7-3? Hmmmm..

MMH positives

• Can't get counterzoned, bats have a terrible start up.
• OH tele can be abused more when compared to other MUs. However.. getting in batman's face in the first place isn't a good idea.
• Fullscreen frame traps, close orbs, and precise pillar placement can build meter and keep me at a comfortable distance.
• Trait 3, However it can't be tossed out freely vs batman compared to most of the cast.
• Can counter MB b3 with b3 on reaction.
• Batman has a pretty bad post-OH tele game, even with bats in some situations. I can react to b3, or jump back if you use trait, etc.

Batman positives

• Trait is huge for countering trait 3, along with catching me tossing out an orb. It can also lock me down forcing me into turtling.
• B3 has incredible range, making it a great tool to counter trait 3. When martian is without trait your trait and b3 are even better at mid-distance, but I'm not delusional and I realize MMH has incredible cooldown on it.
• Batman has multiple safe jump set ups on MMH, stopping my wake up force push. Which many lack the ability to do so.

-I didn't involve things like Batman's vortex or Martian's set ups in this because I wanted to use MU specific knowledge to make these points. So I only used tools that are MU based. I'm sure I can think of more, but these stick out the most. I'd just like to see your look on the MU possibly being 7-3, because it isn't unrealistic. I still say 6-4 though

 

[MUERTE]

Not really. Because I still stand by the fact that I body every Batman with Sinestro. My Sinestro makes the matchup look like 6-4 Sinestro's favor.

Dude I just bodied your Sinestro with my batman 27 - 3 earlier today

 

[MUERTE]

@FOREVER KING
What makes you think MMH is a possibly 7-3? I've always felt MMH had a pretty big advantage. But 7-3? Hmmmm..

MMH positives

• Can't get counterzoned, bats have a terrible start up.
• OH tele can be abused more when compared to other MUs. However.. getting in batman's face in the first place isn't a good idea.
• Fullscreen frame traps, close orbs, and precise pillar placement can build meter and keep me at a comfortable distance.
• Trait 3, However it can't be tossed out freely vs batman compared to most of the cast.
• Can counter MB b3 with b3 on reaction.
• Batman has a pretty bad post-OH tele game, even with bats in some situations. I can react to b3, or jump back if you use trait, etc.

Batman positives

• Trait is huge for countering trait 3, along with catching me tossing out an orb. It can also lock me down forcing me into turtling.
• B3 has incredible range, making it a great tool to counter trait 3. When martian is without trait your trait and b3 are even better at mid-distance, but I'm not delusional and I realize MMH has incredible cooldown on it.
• Batman has multiple safe jump set ups on MMH, stopping my wake up force push. Which many lack the ability to do so.

-I didn't involve things like Batman's vortex or Martian's set ups in this because I wanted to use MU specific knowledge to make these points. So I only used tools that are MU based. I'm sure I can think of more, but these stick out the most. I'd just like to see your look on the MU possibly being 7-3, because it isn't unrealistic.

Dude please i just beat ur martian with Jokerpion earlier today, u didnt know what to do vs my get over here kunai into teeth set ups.

 

[Braindead]

Do you remember when Batman's trait had six seconds of cool down and Sinestro's second hit of b+1,2 was a high attack pre-patch? King tried to convince everyone in the local Cleveland community that match was 5:5 for a long time. LOL. What a fool.

The point is, King may not be right. Everything he says ought out to be analyzed for downplaying.

LOL says the guy who said "Zod is mediocre."

 

[Phosferrax]

It's the context that you always seem to miss, and it makes your points land flat when they should soar.

This line made me feel like I was reading the feedback from my English Literature homework.

 

[GGA Max]

@Blind_Ducky and @FOREVER KING should play Bane vs batman and show how it's 5-5. Since you guys both think that.

I am open to the possibility of that being true but no one has ever shown it in game.do it before mkx comes out?

 

[RiBBz22]

Batman probably beats Killer Frost 6-4 when he is standing up and probably loses 9-1 when he is knocked down. Don't get knocked down. I agree the MU is probably even.

 

[@MylesWright_]

Batman beats Killer Frost and probably beats a lot of other characters as well. Like Zod I think he's a character that has very much been held back by the players using him

 

[Eric The Scruffy]

6 - 4 vs. Green Arrow

+1
I've said for a while that I think this fight is basically all about the life lead. Up close the fight feels pretty even, but Batman's keepaway game between high chip batarangs, trait, and his backdash are so strong that once he takes a life lead it can be really risky to get in and take it back. A lifelead for arrow on the flipside doesn't mean as much though since I have to reload in order to continue my zoning and batman's trait lets him get in with relatively low risk.

 

[ForeverKing]

I don't know if Wonder Woman is even. I'm far from TEH BAST BUTMAN EVUUURRR but it's a match-up I struggle in quite a bit. Her + on block pressure, the fact that so many of your strings whiff on her hitbox, trait whiffing on her if she does a d3, and her oki game, and her corner game, and her meterless damage and I'm not so sure.

I don't buy this "Wonder Woman gets zoned out" talking point. At least, not where Batman is concerned. Batarangs aren't enough to keep her out.

But, I'm welcome to hear other opinions.

I can see him losing to Wonder Woman. He's at the mercy of her knockdown game. And if she gets the life lead and goes into shield stance forget it lol

 

[ForeverKing]

@EMPEROR_JUPITER Martian beats Batman from almost literally everywhere on the screen. Full screen, midrange, footsies, all those distances are all Martian's favor. Then up close face to face they're probable tied.

So Batman is working his ass off to get in Martian's face, and he's still not at advantage even when he gets in lol. It can be extremely hard to open up a good Martian with good defense, but Martian has all the mixups in the world to open up Batman.

Then there's the knock down game. When Martian gets knocked down, Batman has to respects his many wakeups. If Batman gets knocked down.... Martian can go to fucking town lmao.

I didn't feel like the matchup was that bad until I got really good with Martian and starting playing other Batman players. I'm like wow, they really don't have many options especially since I can block all of Batman's stuff and not let him get anything started lol. I still put it as 6-4, just possible 7-3

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

That's why you're talking points end up stinking half the time. "X beats Y" is not a valid point anywhere, and that becomes a problem when you're talking about a tool as versatile and unique as Sinestro's trait. In fact, one could argue that Batman and Sinestro have very similar traits, except one is expected to be charged up longer (This can be argued that Sinestro has stronger options in the mid range game and thus the trait supplements rather than fuels his game). Also, you're saying his offense is garbo without recognizing Batman's defensive issues such as poor pokes and below average anti air capabilities, particularly without trait. It's the context that you always seem to miss, and it makes your points land flat when they should soar.

I don't necessarily disagree with your opinion, but I do think it's misguided. I would agree that Injustice can be stale and a little linear at the highest level of play because the mobility is poor, but I think the bad matchups and everything that goes into that has everything to do with out of control tools. In MK, we had the same thing: incredibly poor matchups because the tools were so overwhelmingly strong. Mobility is bad, but it doesn't mean that Flash and Catwoman can't have a highly intensive neutral game match with a lot of factors going in and out. However, Aquaman's particular set of tools bottlenecks the game into a really bad one for Catwoman because of how those tools interact with Catwomans. The bad mobility and long stages just mean that the game is simpler to break down, but I don't think it's the main reason why matchups are so bad.

I didn't say "x beats y", I said that Batman shouldn't have trouble dealing with Sinestro's offense. The poor pokes thing doesn't matter at all. Batman's options up close are better than Sinestro's, I am not trying to narrow down my talking points to one or two options (X and Y); they are just better overall. Also, Batman has majorly failed if Sinestro does get that close to him. Sinestro should not have a way in when Batman has bats, B2 and JP 2. Some characters can easily avoid bats, but it is not as easy with Sinestro because of his big hitbox and low jump arc.

As for the Flash/Catwoman thing, those type of matchups are the exception rather than the rule. There is a reason that "playing the game" is spammed by some; it is a rare thing to see in Injustice. Most of Sinestro's matchups do not flow like those types of matchups. I'd also argue that MK had polarizing MUs because some characters (Kabal, Cyrax) were straight up broken. The fluidity movement and the engine of MK9 better allowed people to overcome bad matchups.

 

[ForeverKing]

You play the same with every character anyway. Rush. Rush. Rush.