KTF Ep. 6 (I Don't Care) - Podcast Ft. LotF, King Hippo, Coolwhip, Saucy & Home Lee

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

So wait, to sum it up, according to @Mr Aquaman, low tier characters have been fully fleshed out, there's nothing to improve on, all their match-ups are set in stone, and have been extensively grinded out a high level offline? Because it takes unbelievable arrogance to believe that.

My god. It's like my entrance into the NW community all over again. Don't you dare suggest people aren't doing something right.

 

[Mr Aquaman]

My argument from the beginning was that most low tier reps do not use the character as a crutch for their losses at tournaments. And @coolwhip you turned it into 18 different subjects because you cant understand 1 subject? And unless you proove to me these bottom 5 users do I will sit here pretty confident lol

 

[coolwhip]

My argument from the beginning was that most low tier reps do not use the character as a crutch for their losses at tournaments. And @coolwhip you turned it into 18 different subjects because you cant understand 1 subject? And unless you proove to me these bottom 5 users do I will sit here pretty confident lol

A) I did give you examples of people using their character as crutches, including someone who's been active in this thread.

B) I told you I believe these characters are in fact bottom five, but my whole argument, which I've stated on the podcast, is simply being bottom 5 doesn't necessarily mean you can't compete. So while these characters might be shitters, we don't know how shitty are they because it's not like all of their match-ups have been grinded out offline at a high level. Also, I gave the example of the Joker, since the Joker community might not think he's that bad but he's a victim to perception.

I didn't turn it into 18 different subjects. 18 different subjects WERE discussed in this portion of the podcast and the issue isn't nearly as straightforward. You're just being single minded.

 

[Mr Aquaman]

A) I did give you examples of people using their character as crutches, including someone who's been active in this thread.

B) I told you I believe these characters are in fact bottom five, but my whole argument, which I've stated on the podcast, is simply being bottom 5 doesn't necessarily mean you can't compete. So while these characters might be shitters, we don't know how shitty are they because it's not like all of their match-ups have been grinded out offline at a high level. Also, I gave the example of the Joker, since the Joker community might not think he's that bad but he's a victim to perception.

I didn't turn it into 18 different subjects. 18 different subjects WERE discussed in this portion of the podcast and the issue isn't nearly as straightforward. You're just being single minded.

Where are these examples, i only saw brady, and the nw community lol

Where are my guys crying about cyborg, scorpion, green arrow, ares, and joker. That after they lose in tournament, come on TYM, and bitch that their character is the reason (insert player) f***** em.

Whats your definition of compete, because 3 of these characters made it out of pools in the past 3 majors. If this were the case that the players need to level up or that other better players need to play the characters look at all the mid tiers and high tiers tha DIDNT place. And tell me that it doesnt apply to these tiers as well.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

My argument from the beginning was that most low tier reps do not use the character as a crutch for their losses at tournaments. And @coolwhip you turned it into 18 different subjects because you cant understand 1 subject? And unless you proove to me these bottom 5 users do I will sit here pretty confident lol

Your just being argumentative. It's not 18 different subjects. It's more like 18 different angles of the same thing. He is also responding to two different people and your combining responses.

Just move on

 

[coolwhip]

Where are these examples, i only saw brady, and the nw community lol

Where are my guys crying about cyborg, scorpion, green arrow, ares, and joker. That after they lose in tournament, come on TYM, and bitch that their character is the reason (insert player) f***** em.

Whats your definition of compete, because 3 of these characters made it out of pools in the past 3 majors. If this were the case that the players need to level up or that other better players need to play the characters look at all the mid tiers and high tiers tha DIDNT place. And tell me that it doesnt apply to these tiers as well.

I gave you the example of Cossner and Green Arrow a page ago. Go back and check. With direct quotes too.

My definition of "compete" would be legit threats to make top 8/making top 8 at least half the time.

"If this were the case that the players need to level up or that other better players need to play the characters look at all the mid tiers and high tiers tha DIDNT place. And tell me that it doesnt apply to these tiers as well"

I'm not being a dick but I can't figure out what this is supposed to mean. Is your point that there are players failing to place with mid and high tier characters? Of course. They're probably not good enough either. I don't see how anything I said disputes that. It applies to these tiers as well? Well thank fucking Jesus we're in agreement. That's kind of what I've been saying for this entire thread and you couldn't see it, and it was Jack's point when he said "low tier and top tier doesn't really matter." Now, that statement is not meant to be taken literally, but his point was if you're good enough, you'll find a way to outplay most players, with the exception of a few bad match-ups. So if someone mains the Joker (again, an example) and is never able to get close to making top 8, he's probably not good enough. Likewise, if you're maining a high tier and failing to place, you're not good enough.

 

[IMakeItL00kC00L]

Welp time to unfollow @Youphemism on twitter

 

[Cossner]

LOL what the fuck? The concept is the same.

But fine, I'll go ahead and say it:

"Injustice has no footsies."

not getting into that again

"Bane has the worst design in fighting game history and he beats Green Arrow 8-2" before learning the match-up and being helped by Bane mains.

He is the worst design in fg history. He beats Green Arrow 8-2. I've known the match up since I was in Norway. I got no help from Bane mains. You saw Biohazard not knowing how to play the MU. Not knowing he shouldn't do Raging Charge or which anti wake up setups to use. Another case of online people making judgements based on a ft3 and not actual facts.

"Injustice has shit balance."

Agreed. Why does Aquaman have Trident Rush? Why does Batgirl have 50/50s and 100% setups? Why is Bane debuff 6 seconds long for 21 seconds of armor, immunity to projectiles and damage? Why does Zod have infinites full screen against some characters? Why do
I have to load an arrow and get full combo punished for it while characters get the equivalent for free? There are plenty of design choices that make no sense. Sonicfox running train in the past semester was just the inevitable conclusion.

Statements (REPEATEDLY) made by a low tier hero, who incidentally, did well in tournament recently when he stopped being emo. Go figure.

I play a character I like that makes the game bearable. I play a high tier character in mk9. I go as a pot monster usually. Low tier hero my ass.

PS: When Jack says "top tier, low tier, none of this matters," he's explicitly not limiting it to shitters, thus making your above argument dumb.

PPS: Don't tell me what I have a say on when I'm the one on the podcast knowing what we mean and you're the one failing to see the point.

I thought this argument was about low tiers. SonicBoomBrad and CDjr didn't play low tiers.

 

[Mr Aquaman]

I gave you the example of Cossner and Green Arrow a page ago. Go back and check. With direct quotes too.

My definition of "compete" would be legit threats to make top 8/making top 8 at least half the time.

"If this were the case that the players need to level up or that other better players need to play the characters look at all the mid tiers and high tiers tha DIDNT place. And tell me that it doesnt apply to these tiers as well"

I'm not being a dick but I can't figure out what this is supposed to mean. Is your point that there are players failing to place with mid and high tier characters? Of course. They're probably not good enough either. I don't see how anything I said disputes that. It applies to these tiers as well? Well thank fucking Jesus we're in agreement. That's kind of what I've been saying for this entire thread and you couldn't see it, and it was Jack's point when he said "low tier and top tier doesn't really matter." Now, that statement is not meant to be taken literally, but his point was if you're good enough, you'll find a way to outplay most players, with the exception of a few bad match-ups. So if someone mains the Joker (again, an example) and is never able to get close to making top 8, he's probably not good enough. Likewise, if you're maining a high tier and failing to place, you're not good enough.

Okay so one example of Cossner who HELLA upplays arrow and blames his own mistakes when he loses. Which I know he does. That solves my argument.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Okay so one example of Cossner who HELLA upplays arrow and blames his own mistakes when he loses. Which I know he does. That solves my argument.

Does that mean you will leave? Thank God

 

[Mr Aquaman]

Does that mean you will leave? Thank God

NOPE here comes some more BS

 

[Mr Aquaman]

Does that mean you will leave? Thank God

Also you were the one to tell me to "Konsider the following", well I considered it, and rebutted it, and you guys still seem pretty invalid. So don't go back on your title now, it makes you seem rather fragile.

 

[coolwhip]

not getting into that again

He is the worst design in fg history. He beats Green Arrow 8-2. I've known the match up since I was in Norway. I got no help from Bane mains. You saw Biohazard not knowing how to play the MU. Not knowing he shouldn't do Raging Charge or which anti wake up setups to use. Another case of online people making judgements based on a ft3 and not actual facts.

OK, well, many disagree, including Bane players. I'm not saying it's definite one way or the other, but can you really deny you've salted out plenty about Green Arrow since Injustice came out? I agree Biohazard played the match-up bad.

Agreed. Why does Aquaman have Trident Rush? Why does Batgirl have 50/50s and 100% setups? Why is Bane debuff 6 seconds long for 21 seconds of armor, immunity to projectiles and damage? Why does Zod have infinites full screen against some characters? Why do
I have to load an arrow and get full combo punished for it while characters get the equivalent for free? There are plenty of design choices that make no sense. Sonicfox running train in the past semester was just the inevitable conclusion.

The top tiers are borderline broke. But when people complain about balance all day after they lose, there are probably ulterior motives.

I play a character I like that makes the game bearable. I play a high tier character in mk9. I go as a pot monster usually. Low tier hero my ass.

It was a tongue in cheek comment.

I thought this argument was about low tiers. SonicBoomBrad and CDjr didn't play low tiers.

In their minds they did. It's the same concept. Jack's argument wasn't about specific characters. That's why he said "low tier or high tier doesn't really matter." I feel like I've reiterated this point about 16 times in this thread.

 

[coolwhip]

Okay so one example of Cossner who HELLA upplays arrow and blames his own mistakes when he loses. Which I know he does. That solves my argument.

You refusing to concede that maybe Ares isn't fully fleshed out and a more dedicated/better player could do better is sort of blaming the character.

 

[Mr Aquaman]

You refusing to concede that maybe Ares isn't fully fleshed out and a more dedicated/better player could do better is sort of blaming the character.

Now there is words in my mouth lol. Can I get a quote of me saying this? You have no idea what Ares is about and I have asked top players to play him and they give up lol. I would love for him to be more explored and developed. Ain't happening. You just don't know. You sit there and assume.

BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THE ARGUMENT WAS WAS IT! MY GOD!

I ASM ASKING HOW REPS OF BOTTOM 5 CHARACTERS WALK THIS EARTH WITH A CRUTCH UNDER THEIR ARM. THAT THEY BLAME THE CHARACTER FOR THERE LOSSES IN TOURNAMENT. WHICH YOU AND OTHERS HAVE SAID HAPPENS WITH EVERY SINGLE PERSON AND ALL THE TIME.

 

[Cossner]

Okay so one example of Cossner who HELLA upplays arrow and blames his own mistakes when he loses. Which I know he does. That solves my argument.

It'd be a great argument if I actually cared to win.

I don't think Coolwhip understands the reason why me, and many of us actually go to these tournaments. I don't think he knows how we actually are, and what the community is about. I guess he just speaks from what he sees.

But just for the lulz, coolwhip please tell me when did I blame GA for my tournament losses. Did I say omg gross suxx gl 2 broken? No, I still say GA beats GL and I fucked up many many times. RelaxedState beat me too, yes the mu is ass but if you rewatch the match up you'll see I screwed up in the last dash, and in my corner combos. Same when I lost against BenBeech and that aquaman guy who was shouting next to my face. Same against sonicfox and forever king jr at evo. Same against kdz (who I have come close to a pixel of winning the set at the break) and miguel (which I conquered ;_. Same against Decay, who I consider a much better player that deserves more props than what he gets and forever_elite who everyone was sleeping on. I can go on.

 

[coolwhip]

It'd be a great argument if I actually cared to win.

I don't think Coolwhip understands the reason why me, and many of us actually go to these tournaments. I don't think he knows how we actually are, and what the community is about. I guess he just speaks from what he sees.

But just for the lulz, coolwhip please tell me when did I blame GA for my tournament losses. Did I say omg gross suxx gl 2 broken? No, I still say GA beats GL and I fucked up many many times. RelaxedState beat me too, yes the mu is ass but if you rewatch the match up you'll see I screwed up in the last dash, and in my corner combos. Same when I lost against BenBeech and that aquaman guy who was shouting next to my face. Same against sonicfox and forever king jr at evo. Same against kdz (who I have come close to a pixel of winning the set at the break) and miguel (which I conquered ;_. Same against Decay, who I consider a much better player that deserves more props than what he gets and forever_elite who everyone was sleeping on. I can go on.

You've made so many status updates/posts about salting GA and Injustice. They may not be right after tournament places, but good thing Jack said "or whatever character people just got bodied by online" unless you didn't listen to the podcast.

I don't care why you go to tournaments. If you don't care to win, that's great. I just don't think the various complaints about GA and Injustice, many of which are either outdated (Injustice) or brought into question by others (can't comment on that) are entirely objective. I could be wrong. In fact, I'm sure you'll say I am.

 

[Cossner]

OK, well, many disagree, including Bane players. I'm not saying it's definite one way or the other, but can you really deny you've salted out plenty about Green Arrow since Injustice came out? I agree Biohazard played the match-up bad.

I've painstakingly studied it, made threads about it and go above and beyond in that specific match up. I don't think anyone has gone to the depth I have. It is really bad. I don't think many people disagree. However, I am talking from a perspective where I've studied it, those Bane players haven't and probably never will since they don't have to.

The top tiers are borderline broke. But when people complain about balance all day after they lose, there are probably ulterior motives.

I've been pretty consistent with my complaining.

In their minds they did. It's the same concept. Jack's argument wasn't about specific characters. That's why he said "low tier or high tier doesn't really matter." I feel like I've reiterated this point about 16 times in this thread.

That was the whole point of the argument.

 

[Mr Aquaman]

OK,

A) We're the ones who brought up the argument so how the fuck can you tell me what the argument is? Because you chose to focus on one specific aspect that somehow offended you?

B) When the fuck did we say it happens with everyone and why the fuck do you feel singled out? Like, how dumb are you being right now?

"I dont understand why everyone, the go to excuse, I mean my character is low tier"

lol get rekt, I have a few more.

 

[Cossner]

You've made so many status updates/posts about salting GA and Injustice. They may not be right after tournament places, but good thing Jack said "or whatever character people just got bodied by online" unless you didn't listen to the podcast.

I don't care why you go to tournaments. If you don't care to win, that's great. I just don't think the various complaints about GA and Injustice, many of which are either outdated (Injustice) or brought into question by others (can't comment on that) are entirely objective. I could be wrong. In fact, I'm sure you'll say I am.

And how is complaining about the lack of tools a crutch for my 'failed' "career"? I got top 8s and top 16s in majors regionals and locals. I think you missed the point of my first post. People think because the GA community was right at the end of the day about the quality of the character we won't "shut up about how bad he is". All we did, for the longest, was trying to reply to the dumb comments saying he was a top tier character. But hey that means I keep reminding everyone how low tier it is to cover my tournament failures amirite.

 

[coolwhip]

You know an argument has gotten pretty dumb when someone has to resort to semantics. With that, I'll bow out of here. The victim card is challenging the "caring mothers" for most annoying in the community.

Nobody gets mentioned by name and yet someone decides to feel singled out because...the word "everyone" was used, which obviously can only mean everyone in existence. Yup. Sure.

 

[Mr Aquaman]

Oh, and Cossner said "everyone" considered GA "S+++ tier." I'm sure he meant that literally too. Get rekt, and stay dumb. Not my fault you literally need to be spoon-fed English.

GA is S+++ tier, fuck that character.
Sorry you cant win in an argument =/ try better next time to answer my original question and to stay on topic please.

And when you said none of us said everyone, and then I quoted one of you saying everyone. lol.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

No matter how much protection you use, retnal aids can get you. And today marks the day I have gotten it. Pce guys I'm headed to the doctor.

 

[HomeLee1121]

No matter how much protection you use, retnal aids can get you. And today marks the day I have gotten it. Pce guys I'm headed to the doctor.

RUXIN NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[coolwhip]

What pisses me off the most about how disingenuous this whole argument is, is I'm meant to believe that one of the people who teared about the game the most, as well as his character, which only recently resulted in a blow-up he apologized for (for some reason), is blowing us up. I mean, it's kind of hypocritical. But no, I'm sure all his concerns were valid and objective. The fuck outa here.