Match-up Discussion Catwoman match up chart

[Rickyraws]

Looks like a very solid chart. People tend to forget that 4-6 doesn't mean every match you play is a death MU and that losing to Catwoman is embarrassing, and indicative of being a fraud.















.......unless you're a Bane player.

 

[16 Bit]

I want to be clear that when I tear about Catwoman or call her a bottom 10 character you need to understand the context. In Injustice a bottom 10 character is not what it was in MK. Those characters had no chance of placing. Selina is not bad overall. She's actually quite well rounded. Everyone needs to get over the concept of MK shitters were they are just completely useless.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

No. Just a combination of good tournament play and me having more MU knowledge on my side of the MU than most have of her.

Almost all these losing matchups I'm basing on consistently struggling against a representative of the character that agrees with me. For example, Whiteboi agrees she loses that match. He usually wins our sets by a few. However at MLG I won the FT3. I'm not a better player than him, it just happens.

Still, a community letting a char with only 3 winning matchups and 15 losing matchups get top 8 consistently is pretty pathetic I think. You don't see that in any other community as far as I know.

 

[Pnut]

How, as a community, do we let such a shitty character like this place so well so consistently? Are we all just generally low level?

Not so much, it's a combination of factors. He's just playing at an extremely high level. Most players don't know the matchup. Doesn't have a Sinestro, Aquaman, or Bane on his side of the bracket before top 8 since SCR. He could not place at EVO if he has Wound or Theo in his pool.

Why does him doing well have anything to do with the character being good?

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Why does him doing well have anything to do with the character being good?

Well if you saw a char with matchups this bad in any other fighting game, they would almost never get top 8 and never 3 times in a row, or whatever Bit has now.

I'm saying as a community overall we need to not be so scrubby to let something like this happen, no offense to Bit at all, but with matchups like this that char should not be getting top 8.

 

[rev0lver]

Or is it possible, seeing as 16bit is the only one that is consistently placing well with her, that he is being rewarded for extreme perseverance, hard work and character loyalty?

no

didn't astronout just beat jupiter with her?

catwoman's probably top 10 and 16bit's a downplayer like he was with kitana

 

[16 Bit]

Well Chef, you're on record that she's super good. So I want to know what you think her true MU chart is. Same with Carl(who wrote the guide on her).

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Well if you saw a char with matchups this bad in any other fighting game, they would almost never get top 8 and never 3 times in a row, or whatever Bit has now.

I'm saying as a community overall we need to not be so scrubby to let something like this happen, no offense to Bit at all, but with matchups like this that char should not be getting top 8.

I like to think it has to do with how panicky you can get when she finally gets within D1 range. D1 Claws, safe launcher. F1 mixups. Sure, flash is scarier on the ground. You could jump away from him or over. But with CW that could lead to getting J2'd out of the air. And then there's the MB B3/F3 nonsense she has. She can hit you hard when she can play her game. She just rarely gets to do that.

 

[rev0lver]

Also catwoman definitely beats doomsday. She deals with his trait and can deal with mb shoulders. Meanwhile I have to work overtime vs that character and get the same number.

I know this because I've watched it played twice on stream while I was drunk i think

 

[Phosferrax]

In fairness, numbers don't mean so much when she's got her oki game going.

 

[The PantyChrist]

Could you elaborate on the Joker MU for me?

I am also curious about this one. I kinda think it's slight advantage to Catwoman but curious on the points

 

[Ecodus]

There's been a lot of talk lately about where Catwoman stands in the tier list. Everything from bottom 10 to top 10 has been said. Here is my take on Selina's matchups as of June 2014.

The Flash: 5-5
Nightwing: 4-6
Batman: 5-5
Cyborg: 6-4
Green Arrow: 5-5
Superman: 4-6
Martian Manhunter: 4-6
Raven: 5-5
Aquaman: 3-7
Wonder Woman: 4-6
Zatanna: 5-5
Hawkgirl: 5-5
Shazam: 5-5
Green Lantern: 4-6
Batgirl: 5-5
Lobo: 4-6
Joker: 5-5
Harley Quinn: 4-6
Solomon Grundy: 5-5
Zod: 4-6
Lex Luthor: 4-6
Deathstroke: 4-6
Scorpion: 6-4
Ares: 6-4
Killer Frost: 4-6
Doomsday: 4-6
Sinestro: 3-7
Black Adam: 5-5
Bane: 3-7


Winning: 3
Losing: 15
Even: 11


These aren't set in stone. There's a few that I change my mind on and would be different on another day. The majority of these are based on real games and are the common results with a top representative of the characters. Most are not based on theory crafting.

Not that my opinion really matters but.

I only believe there are some small differences.

Zod 5-5 (from games with Gunshow and Pig, b3 mobility helps a lot with trait and knock down 50/50s)
And I'm on the fence about SM, until proven otherwise 5-5

 

[4x4lo8o]

He has her losing to Ares my friend, and I agree :-P

The match up chart says it's in her favor...

 

[Laos_boy]

Look guys. All her losing MUs have something in common. (aside from mabye Harley and Zod) They have a dominant footsies tool.
Yes Catwoman has well round and great tools. But it lacks where she needs its. IN FOOTSIES RANGE.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Well Chef, you're on record that she's super good. So I want to know what you think her true MU chart is. Same with Carl(who wrote the guide on her).

No, you're probably right that she loses vs more than half the cast and wins almost no matchups.

I'm just saying as a community we should be embarassed that we let a character like that sort of dominate our tournament scene (next to theo) because in something like the Street Fighter community, we would never see that.

 

[HomeLee1121]

Ra Helios be like

 

[PunkMafia83]

I can't see how anyone could argue these numbers.

I thought about questioning the raven numbers and ds numbers but the more I think about it it makes sense.

 

[16 Bit]

Joker is one of the few I wouldn't take to heart. It's one of my least played MU. It's probably the least useful number I posted outside Grundy. However my theory is he has a good anti-air, he can actually play footsies with her with sweep and crowbar, and he can jump in because her d+2 sucks. She can blow up his jump ins with jump back 2 but he can punish that with gun. Then he should be able to play his oki game well against her shite wakeups. I don't really see a reason it shouldn't be a close MU.

 

[Ecodus]

no

didn't astronout just beat jupiter with her?

catwoman's probably top 10 and 16bit's a downplayer like he was with kitana

Not taking anything away from astronaut, I actually really enjoy watching him play, but he uses BG mostly doesn't he? CW does better vs MMH than BG?

 

[xInfra Deadx]

The match up chart says it's in her favor...

He's just fuckin' with me

 

[DevilMaySpy]

He can zone her with lasers. Evade doesn't stop zoning. It's not like it moves her forward. She is still zoned out. MB Cat Dash is generally a bill at shutting down zoning as well.

Jump 1 is a big problem in this MU no one talks about. Blows up her jump attacks.

Cat dashes can be baited and full combo punished with Dab shenanigans: jumping wildly, whiffing normals, full screen breath, etc.

 

[RelentlessOhio]

Lol Bit's been placing in top 8 left and right with her now everyone's like "Damn I've been sleeping on her".

 

[Eric The Scruffy]

Still, a community letting a char with only 3 winning matchups and 15 losing matchups get top 8 consistently is pretty pathetic I think. You don't see that in any other community as far as I know.

I don't really know how comparable they are, but I think Gen is considered lower mid tier and he won evo. Also, Justin Wong places consistently well in Marvel with WolverinxStormxAkuma and I think that's generally considered a pretty mediocre team in anyone else's hands.

I don't really think its a blowup for the community since there's really only one Catwoman out there placing like this, and most of the characters she loses too are only 4-6 anyway.

 

[RM Truth]

No, you're probably right that she loses vs more than half the cast and wins almost no matchups.

I'm just saying as a community we should be embarassed that we let a character like that sort of dominate our tournament scene (next to theo) because in something like the Street Fighter community, we would never see that.

Vega was considered bottom 5 in AE 2012 and won a major this year. Shit happens.

 

[RM Truth]

I don't really know how comparable they are, but I think Gen is considered lower mid tier and he won evo. Also, Justin Wong places consistently well in Marvel with WolverinxStormxAkuma and I think that's generally considered a pretty mediocre team in anyone else's hands.

I don't really think its a blowup for the community since there's really only one Catwoman out there placing like this, and most of the characters she loses too are only 4-6 anyway.

Gen was never low tier. He was just hella underrated until Xian started doing well with him.