USF4 Console balance patch notes released

[Tony at Home]

Well unfortunately the game was mostly designed with the fightstick in mind, which you can either buy a stick and learn to use or you can just stick to what you have. I play on a pad as well, and plinking is still possible on a pad. Again you are requesting the removal of something that takes skill to use and wanting it easier.

The argument you just made was, well I shouldn't need a half stack amp to play guitar in a band, because I have a small combo practice amp.

We could make it so doing a light punch required 8 different inputs- yeah, it would take ALOT more hand dexterity to play, but it would be to the detriment of the game.

There is a difference between an execution barrier and an arbitrary execution barrier. It is the definition of arbitrary to have something be difficult only because you don't buy a certain type of controller.

 

[TheSpore]

Can we please drop the whole "I can't do it, therefore it should be easier" talk?

lol why? I was having fun

 

[Tony at Home]

Can we please drop the whole "I can't do it, therefore it should be easier" talk?

Sure, we can agree to disagree

1 frame input buffer via plinking = GOOD

1 frame input buffer built in without plinking = KILL IT WITH FIRE

 

[TheSpore]

We could make it so doing a light punch required 8 different inputs- yeah, it would take ALOT more hand dexterity to play, but it would be to the detriment of the game.

There is a difference between an execution barrier and an arbitrary execution barrier. It is the definition of arbitrary to have something be difficult only because you don't buy a certain type of controller.

Again they designed it with a stick in mind. This execution barrier you speak of is just something you will have to learn to overcome, I don't like saying that type of thing, but that is just the way it is.

 

[Tony at Home]

Again they designed it with a stick in mind. This execution barrier you speak of is just something you will have to learn to overcome, I don't like saying that type of thing, but that is just the way it is.

You say it was designed with a stick in mind.

But for the purpose of plinking? No. The developers never intended plinking to be a thing. It was just an exploit of the priority system always there.

So to say the game being played on stick was that way because plinking was easier is just categorically wrong.

 

[THTB]

also the idea that strings make NRS games scrubbier is hilarious given that every 3D fighter uses that same system...

The only reason is because practically only 3D fighters do use it, and MK9 is 2D. But who fucking cares at this point? MK in general does so many things differently and has done so for the past 22 years.

It's just a case of people either being no more than 3 years into fighting games, or people who are caught up in the "FG standards" fanfare.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Gouken got a few buffs he needed. But it still feels like they held back on how far they could go with them. st.LK buff is useful and useless at the same time because the move is so slow to begin with. EX tatsu buff is godly for the sole purpose that Gouken's defense up close was BOOTY BUTT CHEEKS. I mean, he would get mauled up close because he had nothing to really do that was remotely reliable. Now all of a sudden 5f, invincible, 200dmg/200stn reversal option. Still, they could've tweaked his other tatsus and given them the vacuum effect buff EX tatsu had gotten. 3f cr.LP is good too, since it gives him a 3f normal to use defensively, and also opens up potential hitconfirms (Gouken players who have played Ultra builds with the change say the links are easy). LP palm buff helps with dealing with focus a little bit better, but I doubt it's all that noticeable. His changes are definitely positive and help, but aside from EX tatsu, pretty much they all just are lackluster still.

On a side note, lol at how many changes on some characters were reverted.

Good shit to giving Oni hard knockdowns on first hit DPs if FADC'd. His DP FADC was the worst in the game.

I really would like to hear your input on Chun li and Ibuki's changes

 

[haketh]

Ibuki is gonna be really good, still has a great knockdown game and has improved footsies.

 

[THTB]

I really would like to hear your input on Chun li and Ibuki's changes

Chun going into Ultra was really good. Just the delayed wake-up addition helps her vs characters with powerful hard knockdown setups, and the added health helps. The arcade-to-console changes are super, super weird (mainly because no one outside of Japan knows how Chun's SBK is now aside from it giving her knockdowns). They took some damage from the light one, made the medium one no longer knock down, and then upped the damage on heavy while making it recover slower. The extra Ultra 1 change is great in keeping the move consistent in juggles. She's considered top tier in arcade Ultra, and might stay the same.

Ibuki got really compensated for the delayed wake-up, and in console has some nice extras, too. She walks faster now, and her two target combos that go into cr.HK > st.HK got buffed since the last hit now actually puts you in a juggle state, which Desk showed to give her the ability to jump cancel to command dash for a raida (which also is better in juggles), giving her sweet corner carry off of them. Then her spin kicks now hit crouchers better, too...only thing she really lost was cr.HK > st.HK target combo hitting crouching opponents, which in the long run is probably not that big a deal. She was one of the harder hit characters by delayed wake-up, and the changes do a lot to address this.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Based on the balance and system changes, here's my prediction on the USF4 tier list:

S+: Evil Ryu, Rose, Chun Li
S: Yun, Yang, C.Viper, Rolento, Juri, Dudley, Cammy, Ibuki
A: Guy, Decapre, Akuma, Vega, T.Hawk, El Fuerte, Guile, Hakan, Oni, Ken, Ryu, Sagat, Fei Long
B: Abel, Adon, Balrog, Blanka, Cody, Elena, E.Honda, Gouken, Hugo, M.Bison, Makoto
C: Poison, Dee Jay, Rufus, Gen, Sakura, Zangief
D: Dan, Dhalsim, Seth

 

[Rabbit]

1 frame input buffer via plinking = GOOD

1 frame input buffer built in without plinking = KILL IT WITH FIRE

Because people should be rewarded by being able to mash out combos instead of learn proper timing?

You don't have to plink 1 frame links. I've seen Vega and Fei pad players get them pretty consistently.


A buffer input to make 1 frame links easier would basically be like giving someone the option to use a turbo controller function in combos and if you give people that much slack
you might as well just make all the combos

.



Seriously, if you just practice the timing they aren't that hard even on pad.

 

[Frantastic23]

I'm pretty hype for Oni Yun and Decapre. Decapre is going to be my main focus I had alot of fun playing her at ECT6.

 

[TakeAChance]

Looks at Abel changes...

 

[Tony at Home]

Because people should be rewarded by being able to mash out combos instead of learn proper timing?

You don't have to plink 1 frame links. I've seen Vega and Fei pad players get them pretty consistently.


A buffer input to make 1 frame links easier would basically be like giving someone the option to use a turbo controller function in combos and if you give people that much slack
you might as well just make all the combos

.



Seriously, if you just practice the timing they aren't that hard even on pad.

If you get beat by someone able to mash out combos- then that's YOUR problem, not the masher. It doesn't make MK9 more scrubby that anyone can do combos. A 9 year old can do full BnB combos on me, but it means NOTHING if they can't open me up.

MK9 must have a deeper meta than SF4, because all I hear is arguments that if you make SF4 combos easy, it will reward mashers. But if that's the case, then the meta sucks, because in MK9 even mashing out combos you know how to do will get you killed if your spacing sucks, and you don't have matchup knowledge.

 

[Tony at Home]

Seriously, if you just practice the timing they aren't that hard even on pad.

Also, upload a video of you doing Roses BnB 1 framers 10 times in a row.

If it's not hard, prove it.

 

[Qwark28]

Based on the balance and system changes, here's my prediction on the USF4 tier list:

S+: Evil Ryu, Rose, Chun Li
S: Yun, Yang, C.Viper, Rolento, Juri, Dudley, Cammy, Ibuki
A: Guy, Decapre, Akuma, Vega, T.Hawk, El Fuerte, Guile, Hakan, Oni, Ken, Ryu, Sagat, Fei Long,
B: Abel,, Adon, Balrog, Blanka, Cody, Elena, E.Honda, Gouken, Hugo, M.Bison, Makoto
C: Poison, Dee Jay, Rufus, Gen, Sakura, Zangief
D: Dan, Dhalsim, Seth

It's funny how harshly Adon's Jagga kicks are being nerfed when he's not even top 5 in the current version, people just kept crying wolf when Gamerbee was the only one doing anything.

In USF4 as an early prediction I'd put him in the end of A with potential for top of A.

 

[THTB]

There...honestly is no point in justifying arbitrary execution barriers. If a character is intentionally designed to require intricate execution to be effective, that's fine. You are rewarded for your execution by having access to the basic functions needed to operate the character.

But the arbitrary execution requirements SF4 has is sometimes silly. Why is it Vega requires multiple 1-frame links to get something almost every other character in the game gets with 3, 4, or even 5-frame links?

Considering SF4 was originally designed and toted to be an entry-level game upon its release, it slowly evolved FAR from that. In reality, it is extremely inaccessible for beginners, considering not only the execution requirements, but also the technicalities of the game in general. As much as you may find it hard to believe, people still have trouble doing quarter circles to this day and age. And this even includes people who HAVE played fighting games in the past.

 

[Eddy Wang]

It's funny how harshly Adon's Jagga kicks are being nerfed when he's not even top 5 in the current version, people just kept crying wolf when Gamerbee was the only one doing anything.

In USF4 as an early prediction I'd put him in the end of A with potential for top of A.

They nerfed the Lady gaga (DP) move? lol

 

[Qwark28]

They nerfed the Lady gaga (DP) move? lol

thats rising jaguar, they nerfed jaguar kick.

 

[Gurpwnder]

I find it a bit funny to see Ryu getting stylish changes, when Ken was always considered 'the stylish shoto'.

Still upset that Dan still has to deal with all his character specific nonsense.

• KRK FADC forward on Cammy at point blank range causes Dan to dash past her and if he neutral jumps / Dan kicks, he faces the wrong way
• Cl.HK ~ Cl.MP is still gonna be character specific as hell, since nothing's changed. That means characters standing or characters crouching, along with it just being character specific in general's still going to screw with the combo
• KRK FADC n.J.HP is still character specific too

Oh well, Dan was a very decent character in 2012, and he did get buffs in small areas, so he can still hang with much of the cast.

Also kind of upset about E.Ryu's buffs. I wanted him to become more unique in an offensive way. Something like F+MK putting an airbourne opponent into a juggle state. That way, SRK FADC F+MK xx HK tatsu could give him excellent corner carry and decent damage. In all honesty, I was hoping for a life reduction and more interesting offensive options.

 

[VenomX-90]

If you want balance...

 

[Mortal Komhat]

Based on the balance and system changes, here's my prediction on the USF4 tier list:

S+: Evil Ryu, Rose, Chun Li
S: Yun, Yang, C.Viper, Rolento, Juri, Dudley, Cammy, Ibuki
A: Guy, Decapre, Akuma, Vega, T.Hawk, El Fuerte, Guile, Hakan, Oni, Ken, Ryu, Sagat, Fei Long,
B: Abel,, Adon, Balrog, Blanka, Cody, Elena, E.Honda, Gouken, Hugo, M.Bison, Makoto
C: Poison, Dee Jay, Rufus, Gen, Sakura, Zangief
D: Dan, Dhalsim, Seth

No fucking way Dee Jay isn't the lowest tier. He got mad fucked.

 

[shinobispectre]

Excited for the Makoto changes. Bandwagon/Hype train/whatever she is fun to play now and only looks more fun in USF4. Although the nerf to axe kick is annoying, not sure what to think of it but I am still working on my execution for IAAK haha it is so bad right now. EX Chop looks more fun too!
I kind of dropped of Evil Ryu but still like the character that axe kick is still so cool. He is kind of lame by having an Akuma style offense. I am very interested to see what top players unleash with him.
Dan only seemed to get cl hk changed to a command normal as a new toy so kind of sad but happy for the buffs.
Sagat looks to be making a slight return to dominance! Not sure where he will go but excited to see the king of Muay Thai get some love. Speaking of Muay Thai...
Adon is my main although I am not super good, the nerfs seems a bit overboard. The damage to the Jaguar Kicks seem crazy! Why was air hit damage reduced so badly? Were people getting air hit that badly? Ground hit damage... I'll take it, although I don't know why HK is lesser. IAJK... This is where Makoto is currently but IAJK hit on block does not feel as heavy, it just seems to make the move less safe destroying the whole reason it seemed to be used over regular JK. This seems like it would really hurt certain matchups... but we'll just have to see.
Buffs seem okay but not really balancing the nerfs. The cr Lp seems good and the 2nd hit floating higher is good only in the corner? Or does it just buff the character specific stuff he already has? I still think he will be decent as a lot of his move armor break negating focus craze people seems to be getting. Fingers crossed he will still see some representation in tournaments.

 

[Qwark28]

^ HK JK is nerfed because it's used to blow up throw techs and pressure in the corner.

 

[M2Dave]

This game is going to be ass.