USF4 Console balance patch notes released

[Eddy Wang]

http://shoryuken.com/2014/05/22/capcom-drops-full-change-list-for-ultra-street-fighter-ivs-console-release/

Please discuss:

Ibuki Buffed again, tho i wish we could use any jumping normal from tsujigoe.
Yet, she got well buffed this time. So...

 

[Tony at Home]

El Fuerte buffs still intact.

Hopefully more people will play him now. Quesidilla bomb is gonna be so nasty now!



Just need my controller to be buffed so I can hit confirm into super.

 

[Qwark28]

Looking forward to better combos and beefed up damage.

 

[JJvercetti]

Hawk may actually be better than Gief wow

 

[The Slaj Jazz]

Deeeejayyy

 

[OnlineRon91]

I thought EX Quesadilla Bomb was only going to get a throw invincibility buff but it's fully invincible? Oh man, hello legit wake-up! That's exactly what Fuerte players needed.

 

[TheSpore]

CAn someone explain the significance of this as I have just started learning SF4. Cammy seems to me to gotten many nerfs that show me she may not be as good anymore and Chun Li seems to be getting many buffs.

So am right to say that Cammy will be less good and CHun much more viable now

 

[Justice]

Where's the patches for the new characters?

 

[SHAOLIN]

Deeeejayyy

So is this gonna be ths worst Dee Jay version in SF4? I ask that cause a lot people in my community is saying most of the OG Dee Jay players are droping him,because its just takes too much to win with him.

 

[Skkra]

Skkra's thoughts...

1. Akuma can no longer cancel sweep into Raging Demon ultra. That’s the EXACTLY whiff bait that Infiltration used to dominate everyone on his way to his Evo championship. I remember him doing it to Daigo so many times it was nuts.

2. Blanka’s close standing MK is now airborne in 3 frames instead of 4… this is HUGE imo because throws have 3 frames of startup as well… so this means he can now use close s.MK to bait throw breaks, right? I honestly think this is hugely powerful. One of the main Chris G tactics with Sakura is to get in someone’s face and either throw or do her LK tatsu. If they try to throw break, she’s airborne in tatsu, they get hit, and now you can link into a huge combo.

3. Chun Li! Yessss. Health +50. Both ultras improved. Ultra 1 now combos better (people ALWAYS fall out when I hit it in the corner) and ultra 2 kikosho now has inv frames up until the active frames… so sick of getting hit out of it haha.

4. Cody… huge knife buffs! Hahaha yes. That is such a unique and cool aspect of the char and its NEVER used.

5. Looks like DJ lost his low inv on lk sobat because its safer now?... but he’s still stupidly bad after these unnecessary nerfs. =( Why the fuck would they do anything but buff him? What a weird joke.

6. Evil Ryu got buffed several times but I have NO idea why, that char is already beastly. People are finally showing lately that he’s insanely dangerous and this is going to make him even scarier. Daigo is playing Evil Ryu instead of Ryu in Japan now, in fact.

7. They reverted a few Guile buffs, but he still has ultra flash kick autocorrect 100% now. YESSSSSS. They nerfed his health and his flash kick focus cancel though.

8. Guy and Hakan are both going to be REALLY good now. Also wtf tons of ibuki buffs??? Ken is hugely buffed too.

9. Rose got NOTHING but buffs, she’s probably going to be super good now, wouldn’t be surprised to see a new more high level Rose players, or FilipinoMan and Luffy wrecking.

10. Looks at Hawk’s notes for light condor spire. Holy god. That is an INSANE buff. Hawk is my secondary after Guile, so I'm pumped.



SUPER HYPE FOR THIS NOW! Lots of good changes overall.

 

[Eddy Wang]

CAn someone explain the significance of this as I have just started learning SF4. Cammy seems to me to gotten many nerfs that show me she may not be as good anymore and Chun Li seems to be getting many buffs.

So am right to say that Cammy will be less good and CHun much more viable now

last tume i checked, cammy and feu long was still top tiers.

chun li will be good tho, the ultra nerf is why i don't get it, that ultra damage is ass

 

[OnlineRon91]

CAn someone explain the significance of this as I have just started learning SF4. Cammy seems to me to gotten many nerfs that show me she may not be as good anymore and Chun Li seems to be getting many buffs.

So am right to say that Cammy will be less good and CHun much more viable now

In AE2012, Cammy > Chun-Li. This why you see nerfs for one and buffs for another.

 

[Tony at Home]

Despite the Rose buffs, they will still only help her for competitive offline play.

Due to the SFIV engine, she'll always be a shitter without proper input buffer. She needed more hit adv on her normals so all her combos weren't one frame links- but from what I see, they still are.

She still can't hit-confirm online because you never know if you'll get the 1-frame link or not, and you end up being either super unsafe or negative on everything.

Add input-buffer on all normals Capcom, this is getting ridiculous.

 

[SHAOLIN]

Add input-buffer on all normals Capcom, this is getting ridiculous.

That would make 1 frame links easier right?

 

[Qwark28]

Despite the Rose buffs, they will still only help her for competitive offline play.

Due to the SFIV engine, she'll always be a shitter without proper input buffer. She needed more hit adv on her normals so all her combos weren't one frame links- but from what I see, they still are.

She still can't hit-confirm online because you never know if you'll get the 1-frame link or not, and you end up being either super unsafe or negative on everything.

Add input-buffer on all normals Capcom, this is getting ridiculous.

That's a shame but that's what you get for having a bad connection. Changing your game to suit online play at the cost of offline play is the worst possible thing to do.

this coming from an Adon player who finds IAJKS manifesting themselves as random jump kicks.

 

[TheSpore]

last tume i checked, cammy and feu long was still top tiers.

chun li will be good tho, the ultra nerf is why i don't get it, that ultra damage is ass

Thanks yeah I heard Cammy was a top tier multiple times

In AE2012, Cammy > Chun-Li. This why you see nerfs for one and buffs for another.

Yeah it looks like Cammy is still going to be good,but Chun is definitely gonna be back as one of my characters.

 

[Tony at Home]

That's a shame but that's what you get for having a bad connection. Changing your game to suit online play at the cost of offline play is the worst possible thing to do.

this coming from an Adon player who finds IAJKS manifesting themselves as random jump kicks.

Unfortunately, it has nothing to do with bad conections. Natural latency between any two places will always cause AT LEAST 2 frames of delay. ALWAYS.

1 frame links should not exist at all, given they can just add input buffer. 1 or 2 frames at the end of every move allow for next inputs to be buffered. Basically a built-in plink.

Giving her extra hit-advantage would indeed be altering balance to compensate for online, but input buffer wouldn't be, as it wouldn't effect balance, so they could do one or the other- but they need to do at least one.

When 95% of play takes place online, one can't discount that certain characters become too good, or too shitty just for the sake of competitive play.

 

[Qwark28]

Unfortunately, it has nothing to do with bad conections. Natural latency between any two places will always cause AT LEAST 2 frames of delay. ALWAYS.

1 frame links should not exist at all, given they can just add input buffer. 1 or 2 frames at the end of every move allow for next inputs to be buffered. Basically a built-in plink.

Giving her extra hit-advantage would indeed be altering balance to compensate for online, but input buffer wouldn't be, as it wouldn't effect balance, so they could do one or the other- but they need to do at least one.

When 95% of play takes place online, one can't discount that certain characters become too good, or too shitty just for the sake of competitive play.

Then it's your fault for not adjusting. In certain connections I can hit E.Ryu's 1f link with a GREEK connection.

Everyone has to adjust to online.

 

[Tony at Home]

Then it's your fault for not adjusting. In certain connections I can hit E.Ryu's 1f link with a GREEK connection.

Everyone has to adjust to online.

It's the developers fault for not adjusting.

They could just add 1 or 2 frames of input buffer and it would be a non-issue.

Why do we hold NRS accountable for when their controls aren't good enough, but with Capcom it's our fault and we "have to adapt" to their shoddy controls?

 

[Qwark28]

It's the developers fault for not adjusting.

They could just add 1 or 2 frames of input buffer and it would be a non-issue.

Why do we hold NRS accountable for when their controls aren't good enough, but with Capcom it's our fault and we "have to adapt" to their shoddy controls?

Uhhh, because Capcom's controls only affect you online while NRS's fuck up the simplest inputs offline?

You want the game's execution to become easier based on ONLINE. Some characters are MEANT to have difficult execution OFFLINE due to their high reward.

 

[Tony at Home]

You want the game's execution to become easier based on ONLINE. Some characters are MEANT to have difficult execution OFFLINE due to their high reward.

High reward?

Oh, you mean being able to hit-confirm a weak-ass BnB from Rose? Yeah, that's high reward: being able to do something essential to the character.

Name ONE character that would be broken if their BnB combo wasn't a 1 frame link. Go ahead, name one. Because pros can do 1 frame links consistently, and it doesn't make the character broken.

 

[Tony at Home]

Some characters are MEANT to have difficult execution OFFLINE due to their high reward.

"Kabal is fine because he's really high execution"

- standard argument that difficult execution is a good way to balance a character

http://www.sirlin.net/blog/2012/7/16/execution-in-fighting-games.html

 

[Qwark28]

High reward?

Oh, you mean being able to hit-confirm a weak-ass BnB from Rose? Yeah, that's high reward: being able to do something essential to the character.

Name ONE character that would be broken if their BnB combo wasn't a 1 frame link. Go ahead, name one. Because pros can do 1 frame links consistently, and it doesn't make the character broken.

So, since you haven't replied, I'm guessing you saw how stupid it is to say 1f links shouldn't exist and an entire franchises combo system should change because you can't do your Rose combos online? Good.

I didn't say they would be broken, nor did I say Kabal is fine because of execution, don't put words in my mouth. I said characters are supposed to have difficult execution when they're given high reward for doing a combo, that's just how it is in SF. Just because your char doesn't get much doesn't mean you should rage and demand the system be changed, for online no less.

Now please continue to drop Rose combos and curse Ono for getting your panties in a knot while having a good day sir

 

[Tony at Home]

So, since you haven't replied, I'm guessing you saw how stupid it is to say 1f links shouldn't exist and an entire franchises combo system should change because you can't do your Rose combos online? Good.

You don't get how input buffer works?

It doesn't remove links, it just widens their window. It wouldn't prevent ALL links from existing, it would prevent 1 frame links from existing. All links would automatically be +1 frame in terms of execution, without changing anything related to hit/block advantage.

It wouldn't affect high level play at all, since they already do their links consistently, and it would allow everyone else to focus on the game's meta, rather than focus on things like latency and missed inputs.

And yes, if you think Capcom is right to make things difficult in execution in order to balance, that is no different from saying Kabal is balanced out by his high execution. That's the same reasoning behind it.

And dam straight they should make a simple, small change to make it more playable for me and thousands of other players. It's not just me. Believe it or not, MOST people can't do 1 frame links consistently (10 times in a row).

 

[Qwark28]

You don't get how input buffer works?

It doesn't remove links, it just widens their window. It wouldn't prevent ALL links from existing, it would prevent 1 frame links from existing. All links would automatically be +1 frame in terms of execution, without changing anything related to hit/block advantage.

It wouldn't affect high level play at all, since they already do their links consistently, and it would allow everyone else to focus on the game's meta, rather than focus on things like latency and missed inputs.

And yes, if you think Capcom is right to make things difficult in execution in order to balance, that is no different from saying Kabal is balanced out by his high execution. That's the same reasoning behind it.

You still don't understand that it would make things that are not supposed to be easy easier.

Why don't you just go right ahead and say Rose doesn't deserve to have her bnbs be 1 framers and be done with it instead of ruin an aspect of some characters.

Kabal is not dirty because he's difficult to use. Do you seriously believe that saying E.Ryu's 45% damage combos being deserving of a high execution requirement is justifying Kabal? Really?

FYI, Sako drops combos too, that's the price of high execution, it's not there to justify bullshit, it's there to check powerful options. Just because Kabal was a complete failure that required execution ( lol ) does not mean everything is the same. Don't look at it so narrowly.