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USF4 Console balance patch notes released

trufenix

bye felicia
This I actually kinda agree with for now. Holy god did he get raped for NO reason. At least according to the changelog. Why??? It's not like he's been dominating the game.
The whole point of Ultra was to take all the 50/50 and guessing out of the game. Once you realize that, you'll understand why red focus exists, why delayed wake up exists, why characters like Seth, Gief, and Makoto got what they did, and why all the safe DPs are gone.
 

OnlineRon91

Joker++
My characters have lost all of their most important buffs.

- Dhalsim has lost two hits on st.MK.

- Guile has lost auto-correct ultra combo 1.

- Sagat has gained more recovery frames on Tiger Shots and lost damage on key normal attacks. Only the second hit of st.LK can be canceled.

- Seth is Kano 3.o.

Sagat will probably be high mid tier. The others will be mid tier except Seth, who will be worthless at any level of play.

The game sucks, fool.
Your characters inherently benefit from delayed wakeup and double ultra.
 

OnlineRon91

Joker++
The game still benefits rush down characters. All the zoning characters are trash except Sagat.
Hmm yes the rush down characters were not left without their share of buffs. My guess is that they are excercising caution due to both Sagat and Guile being top 3 in previous versions. Dhalsim is just hard to balance in general because of how extreme he is.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
im sorry but if you have a command grab and a dp all you need is a knockdown and let the games begin. doesnt matter how ass the character is. with that kind of vortex you can win. if you're playing seth as a zoning character, you're doing it wrong.
Who is talking about zoning? Seth has not been a zoning character since vanilla.

Capcom took away Seth's best cross up jumping attack and multiple stun points on lightning kicks and SPD. In an early arcade version, he was given the old j.HP, which was subsequently removed.

Seth is going to suck, according to Poongko and Online Tony.
 
Skkra's thoughts...

1. Akuma can no longer cancel sweep into Raging Demon ultra. That’s the EXACTLY whiff bait that Infiltration used to dominate everyone on his way to his Evo championship. I remember him doing it to Daigo so many times it was nuts.

2. Blanka’s close standing MK is now airborne in 3 frames instead of 4… this is HUGE imo because throws have 3 frames of startup as well… so this means he can now use close s.MK to bait throw breaks, right? I honestly think this is hugely powerful. One of the main Chris G tactics with Sakura is to get in someone’s face and either throw or do her LK tatsu. If they try to throw break, she’s airborne in tatsu, they get hit, and now you can link into a huge combo.

3. Chun Li! Yessss. Health +50. Both ultras improved. Ultra 1 now combos better (people ALWAYS fall out when I hit it in the corner) and ultra 2 kikosho now has inv frames up until the active frames… so sick of getting hit out of it haha.

4. Cody… huge knife buffs! Hahaha yes. That is such a unique and cool aspect of the char and its NEVER used.

5. Looks like DJ lost his low inv on lk sobat because its safer now?... but he’s still stupidly bad after these unnecessary nerfs. =( Why the fuck would they do anything but buff him? What a weird joke.

6. Evil Ryu got buffed several times but I have NO idea why, that char is already beastly. People are finally showing lately that he’s insanely dangerous and this is going to make him even scarier. Daigo is playing Evil Ryu instead of Ryu in Japan now, in fact.

7. They reverted a few Guile buffs, but he still has ultra flash kick autocorrect 100% now. YESSSSSS. They nerfed his health and his flash kick focus cancel though.

8. Guy and Hakan are both going to be REALLY good now. Also wtf tons of ibuki buffs??? Ken is hugely buffed too.

9. Rose got NOTHING but buffs, she’s probably going to be super good now, wouldn’t be surprised to see a new more high level Rose players, or FilipinoMan and Luffy wrecking.

10. Looks at Hawk’s notes for light condor spire. Holy god. That is an INSANE buff. Hawk is my secondary after Guile, so I'm pumped.



SUPER HYPE FOR THIS NOW! Lots of good changes overall.
daigo is playing evil ryu? got some footage of that?
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
My characters have lost all of their most important buffs.

- Dhalsim has lost two hits on st.MK.

- Guile has lost auto-correct ultra combo 1.

- Sagat has gained more recovery frames on Tiger Shots and lost damage on key normal attacks. Only the second hit of st.LK can be canceled.

- Seth is Kano 3.o.

Sagat will probably be high mid tier. The others will be mid tier except Seth, who will be worthless at any level of play.

The game sucks, fool.
From what I heard, st.MK didn't change shit. Autocorrect U1 was 100% unnecessary, given DWU, and like I said, he took the nerf bat for no real reason. So what Sagat's second hit of st.LK can be cancelled? THAT'S THE PART OF THE MOVE THAT MADE IT GOOD BEFORE IT BECAME 2 HITS. Seth, I'll give you...RIP.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
This I actually kinda agree with for now. Holy god did he get raped for NO reason. At least according to the changelog. Why??? It's not like he's been dominating the game.
It's because his design is so unpopular and random.
 

haketh

Noob
Guile still has 5 Frame U1, the only nerf that Guile got that really mattered are the HP nerfs and CH Boom nerfs. Losing the two hit St. MK sucks but the damage buffs Sim got are o
My characters have lost all of their most important buffs.

- Dhalsim has lost two hits on st.MK.

- Guile has lost auto-correct ultra combo 1.

- Sagat has gained more recovery frames on Tiger Shots and lost damage on key normal attacks. Only the second hit of st.LK can be canceled.

- Seth is Kano 3.o.

Sagat will probably be high mid tier. The others will be mid tier except Seth, who will be worthless at any level of play.

The game sucks, fool.
Guile still has 5 Frame U1, the only nerf that Guile got that really mattered are the HP nerfs and CH Boom nerfs. Losing the two hit St. MK sucks but the damage buffs Sim got are okay but having HKD on EX Blast is super good.

And yeah Dave first hit of St. Lk not being cancellable is whatever, second hit is where the money is.

The game still benefits rush down characters. All the zoning characters are trash except Sagat.
Rose & Gouken are both looking pretty buff. St. LK buff for Gouken finally gave him a way to convert off of lights and it goes into LP Palm at max range.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
From what I heard, st.MK didn't change shit. Autocorrect U1 was 100% unnecessary, given DWU, and like I said, he took the nerf bat for no real reason. So what Sagat's second hit of st.LK can be cancelled? THAT'S THE PART OF THE MOVE THAT MADE IT GOOD BEFORE IT BECAME 2 HITS. Seth, I'll give you...RIP.
Read the Dhalsim changes please. The "st.MK hits twice" part has been crossed off.

Guile needs auto-correct U1. He received hidden nerfs like extended counter hit window on Sonic Boom

Given the additional nerfs, Sagat's st.LK ought to function like in vanilla.

I understand you fools are Capcom fanatics and apologists, but these nerfs are not justifiable.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Read the Dhalsim changes please. The "st.MK hits twice" part has been crossed off.

Guile needs auto-correct U1. He received hidden nerfs like extended counter hit window on Sonic Boom

Given the additional nerfs, Sagat's st.LK ought to function like in vanilla.

I understand you fools are Capcom fanatics and apologists, but these nerfs are not justifiable.
So not only must you guess what setup to do when you know him down but not even dare jump at him even when you guess right?
 

haketh

Noob
Read the Dhalsim changes please. The "st.MK hits twice" part has been crossed off.

Guile needs auto-correct U1. He received hidden nerfs like extended counter hit window on Sonic Boom

Given the additional nerfs, Sagat's st.LK ought to function like in vanilla.

I understand you fools are Capcom fanatics and apologists, but these nerfs are not justifiable.
The damage nerfs are small compared to having a better St. LK, DWU, BOTH U1 & U2 hitting fully in all situations, Red Focus is huge for him with the special cancel St. LK and Kara TU.

Window is still out on Guile, he's better than he was in AE2012

Sim, yeah I still don't think he's gonna be that great but he's gonna be better than 2012
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I did not see you complain when Cammy and Yun were stunning Dhalsim and Guile in two combos.
Since that is not happening any more, I see no reason for Guile to have a braindead autocorrect ultra along with DW.

If you want autocorrect ultra then ask Capcom to remove Guile's ability to DW.
 
@General M2Dave Try to play it at least once before claiming the game will suck and all those zoners will be unviable. I guarantee you top 10 characters will be zoners and characters with good footsies.

Delayed wake up is a big deal. Even though a few characters like Ibuki/Cammy can still have strong oki to cover both timings, it is a big nerf to a lot of rushdown characters like Makoto, Guy and Adon who relied on safe jumps and ambiguous cross-ups to maintain momentum. Delayed wake up means you will spend 50% more time in neutral situations instead of being pressured. And that means zoning and footsie characters will be dominant.

Red Focus helps everyone but imo they help zoners more because those characters lacked big damage to comeback from behind before. What could Guile get from a frametrap before? Reverse spin kick, jab, strong xx sonic boom? Now he can get 400-500 dmg like everyone else. The difference is that characters like Chun Li didn't have access to that kind of damage before. So it arguably helps them more than most rushdown characters.
 
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M2Dave

Zoning Master
The damage nerfs are small compared to having a better St. LK, DWU, BOTH U1 & U2 hitting fully in all situations, Red Focus is huge for him with the special cancel St. LK and Kara TU.

Window is still out on Guile, he's better than he was in AE2012

Sim, yeah I still don't think he's gonna be that great but he's gonna be better than 2012
Dieminion, who is usually very fair-minded, said that Guile would be worse in USFIV. He even contemplated switching characters.

Filipino Champ and P2W said that Dhalsim would be about the same or worse in USFIV.

Sagat will probably be about the same or slightly better.

The point is, the game will be a disappointment. There are hardly any worthwhile changes. Capcom added five new characters, four from SF x Tekken and one of which is a clone of another. Red focus, from what I have seen, is mostly used in combos. In reality, delayed wake up is the only new feature since 70%+ of the character buffs have been reverted.

I hope the game fails, but Capcom fanatics such as yourselves will praise the game no matter what.
 

haketh

Noob
Sagat will probably be about the same or slightly better.

The point is, the game will be a disappointment. There are hardly any worthwhile changes. Capcom added five new characters, four from SF x Tekken and one of which is a clone of another. Red focus, from what I have seen, is mostly used in combos. In reality, delayed wake up is the only new feature since 70%+ of the character buffs have been reverted.

I hope the game fails, but Capcom fanatics such as yourselves will praise the game no matter what.
Then play Sagat then. And DWU, Red Focus, EX Red Focus, and all the balance changes are pretty big and worthwile. Like what did you want that would make it "worthwhile"? Not much they can do big changes wise without completely changing the enging. And Decapre is pretty far from being a Cammy clone in whats most important, gameplay. Being a charge character alone is a huge change.

I'm about as far from a Capcom fanatic as you can get lol, I've been pretty vocal about my ahte for SFIV since 09, I'm just gonna try to give Ultra one last try lol. If you had called me a Melty fanatic you would ahve a point.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
Guys,
a) Dave didn't get a credibility reset just because he's talking about a different game.
b) None and I mean none of the predictions from before AE 2012's release were accurate and most of them were dead fucking wrong (Cammy, Fei Long, Seth, Oni) so can we please let the game at least be released before calling characters unviable?
 

Mortal Komhat

Worst Well-Established Goro Player Ever
can we please let the game at least be released before calling characters unviable?
In the case of Seth? Eeeeh... I think the prediction's accurate but I guess a character specialist could find some stuff that was left uncovered, I dunno.

RIP in peace Dee Jay is real though.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Read the Dhalsim changes please. The "st.MK hits twice" part has been crossed off.

Guile needs auto-correct U1. He received hidden nerfs like extended counter hit window on Sonic Boom

Given the additional nerfs, Sagat's st.LK ought to function like in vanilla.

I understand you fools are Capcom fanatics and apologists, but these nerfs are not justifiable.
I know that it was reverted to 2012. What I am saying is I was hearing outside of the Hugo matchup, it didn't really do much.

No, Guile didn't need it. Why do you think Rog and Justin were questioning it? Anyone without tinted lenses could see how fucked up it was going to become. Also, Dieminion had judged the game based on playing it like 2012, basically. Guile has nerfs, but generally fares better because now he isn't getting fucked up as bad as soon as he hits the ground on a hard knockdown.

Sagat is probably nerfed because he benefitted just as heavily from the weaker oki via DWU.
 

Skkra

PSN: Skkra
daigo is playing evil ryu? got some footage of that?
Hmm... I saw the "Daigo is playing Evil Ryu" post on Eventhubs, I think. If you look through the past few days, there should be an article about "japanese players within the top 100" that talks about who everyone is playing in Ultra... that's where you'd find the footage, I think.
 

Skkra

PSN: Skkra
Dieminion, who is usually very fair-minded, said that Guile would be worse in USFIV. He even contemplated switching characters.

Filipino Champ and P2W said that Dhalsim would be about the same or worse in USFIV.

Sagat will probably be about the same or slightly better.

The point is, the game will be a disappointment. There are hardly any worthwhile changes. Capcom added five new characters, four from SF x Tekken and one of which is a clone of another. Red focus, from what I have seen, is mostly used in combos. In reality, delayed wake up is the only new feature since 70%+ of the character buffs have been reverted.

I hope the game fails, but Capcom fanatics such as yourselves will praise the game no matter what.
I respect the opinion of those players, but at the same time, not a single person has actually played the game yet. Console is having several tweaks done, and until console is actually released, I think we need to take a wait-and-see approach.

Yes, it's quite possible that everyone is correct about various characters, but until we're actually playing the game and putting the work in, no one can say for sure how everything will play out.

I've personally enjoyed SF4 since release. Jury is out on how I feel about the Ultra system changes but I'll guess we'll find out really soon!...
 
Hmm... I saw the "Daigo is playing Evil Ryu" post on Eventhubs, I think. If you look through the past few days, there should be an article about "japanese players within the top 100" that talks about who everyone is playing in Ultra... that's where you'd find the footage, I think.
The thing is I follow the street fighter scene and I haven't seen any footage of daigo playing E.ryu in USF4