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USF4 Console balance patch notes released

I'm as casual as you can get and I love execution in fighting games. The way they do it in tekken is actually my favorite, they give a character a really good move but make it a "just frame" so it won't be ridiculous to perform. God forbid if Mishima's had easy inputs on electrics haha. It would mean any player could just pick up the character and just wreck shop.

Or the character I use, hwoarang with his JF Sky Rocket. You don't have to learn it to be a good hwoarang, but if you want to push your character to the next level, it's another tool you can use at your disposal.
 

Mortal Komhat

Worst Well-Established Goro Player Ever
even if someone just trained electrics in Tekken and picked up a Mishima they'd still get wrecked in neutral. Those fuckers are duckable.

Otherwise my co-workers couldn't even touch me and yet they do. Very often.
 

Rabbit

thugs bunny
If you get beat by someone able to mash out combos- then that's YOUR problem, not the masher. It doesn't make MK9 more scrubby that anyone can do combos. A 9 year old can do full BnB combos on me, but it means NOTHING if they can't open me up.

MK9 must have a deeper meta than SF4, because all I hear is arguments that if you make SF4 combos easy, it will reward mashers. But if that's the case, then the meta sucks, because in MK9 even mashing out combos you know how to do will get you killed if your spacing sucks, and you don't have matchup knowledge.
lol. I never said anything about people losing to mashing and I never said MK9 was scrubby.

Mashing does not equate to bad spacing and mashing doesn't change the timing of the strings in MK9, so I have no idea what you are going on about there. :rolleyes:
 
lol. I never said anything about people losing to mashing and I never said MK9 was scrubby.

Mashing does not equate to bad spacing and mashing doesn't change the timing of the strings in MK9, so I have no idea what you are going on about there. :rolleyes:
You said people shouldn't be rewarded for mashing out easy combos.

And my argument is there is no reward. A better player will always be able to avoid combo's that are mindlessly mashed out, no matter how hard or easy the combos where in execution.
 

Rabbit

thugs bunny
You said people shouldn't be rewarded for mashing out easy combos.

And my argument is there is no reward. A better player will always be able to avoid combo's that are mindlessly mashed out, no matter how hard or easy the combos where in execution.
How is that not a reward? You are getting something that people had to learn for free just because you thought it was too hard.
 
How is that not a reward? You are getting something that people had to learn for free just because you thought it was too hard.
Because it doesn't help them to win.

If you think being able to do a super in Injustice easily rewards low execution, just look at what happens to people who throw out random supers.
 
Most characters get decent damaging BnB combos without 1 frame links

Rose gets crap damage BnB combos with 1 frame links

How is that fair??

All this talk about "you have to earn your damage from high execution" is complete BS. There is no correlation between 1 frame link BnB's, and their damage. Plenty of 1 framers do crap damage, while 2 or more frame links do plenty of damage.

The execution = higher reward mechanic people keep talking about does not exist.
 

D7MHellcat

Frozen Earth
You know, as I learned Street Fighter I was a Guile main through and through, but then I found Rose....Lord have mercy am I glad Luffy introduced us :eek:
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
EX hands is +5 on hit. that is all.

other than that honda is looking really good other than the EX headbutt nerf but i dont think that really matters because everyone else's reversals got nerfed pretty hard.

i think the best change to the game overall is dp fadc being -5 universally. that was so shitheaded that you can dp, dash forward and go for mixup if you wanted to use bar for zero risk. pretty much no reason not to reversal a lot of the time.
 
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Rabbit

thugs bunny
Most characters get decent damaging BnB combos without 1 frame links

Rose gets crap damage BnB combos with 1 frame links

How is that fair??

All this talk about "you have to earn your damage from high execution" is complete BS. There is no correlation between 1 frame link BnB's, and their damage. Plenty of 1 framers do crap damage, while 2 or more frame links do plenty of damage.

The execution = higher reward mechanic people keep talking about does not exist.
Maybe because Rose's game is based around throws, zoning, counter-zoning and pokes instead of trying to land c. lp/lk x 2, c. mp, SS every time you get near the opponent?

Funny how there's all this talk about "Adapting" on this forum then I see talk about how SF4 execution should be easier (DP and SPD shortcuts + bigger reversal windows already make the game controls a lot easier than the previous games).
 

Mortal Komhat

Worst Well-Established Goro Player Ever
The SPD shortcuts allow for Kara SPDs which, as someone who likes me some grapplin', make me hard in the pants. You can also hide DPs a bit better without doing the actual motion and going for the shortcut.

Sure, they take execution requirements out of the game but even if you were able to do these things beforehand, the shortcuts are still useful.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
EX hands is +5 on hit. that is all.

other than that honda is looking really good other than the EX headbutt nerf but i dont think that really matters because everyone else's reversals got nerfed pretty hard.

i think the best change to the game overall is dp fadc being -5 universally. that was so shitheaded that you can dp, dash forward and go for mixup if you wanted to use bar for zero risk. pretty much no reason not to reversal a lot of the time.
Still funny to see people trying to justify a fast, invincible, safe special that leads to mixups. I still don't get how that is even justifiable.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Uh-oh...Dave saw the Sagat tiger shot nerf... >.>
90% of the buffs to characters like Chun Li, Claw, Dhalsim, Guile, Sagat, etc. have been reverted. Ultra Street Fighter IV may as well be called Super Street Fighter IV AE 2012 Delayed Wake Up Edition. Nothing else is new. Innovation is seriously lacking.

It is a shame that this overrated piece of garbage is going to be the golden standard in fighting games tournaments for years to come.
 

haketh

Noob
90% of the buffs to characters like Chun Li, Claw, Dhalsim, Guile, Sagat, etc. have been reverted. Ultra Street Fighter IV may as well be called Super Street Fighter IV AE 2012 Delayed Wake Up Edition. Nothing else is new. Innovation is seriously lacking.

It is a shame that this overrated piece of garbage is going to be the golden standard in fighting games tournaments for years to come.
Then Gouken buffs though dog.

But eyah really lame Gat caught that nerf and same with Guile. Chun actually kept pretty much all the important buffs and looks to be pretty solid this time around and Vega is still looking pretty strong. Just wish he kept the added hitstun on Cr. Jab.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
90% of the buffs to characters like Chun Li, Claw, Dhalsim, Guile, Sagat, etc. have been reverted. Ultra Street Fighter IV may as well be called Super Street Fighter IV AE 2012 Delayed Wake Up Edition. Nothing else is new. Innovation is seriously lacking.

It is a shame that this overrated piece of garbage is going to be the golden standard in fighting games tournaments for years to come.
There are very few reverted changes...

Guile and Sagat were the only ones you listed who actually caught the nerf bat from arcade to console...but Sagat only really got nerfed with tiger shots and some damage reductions. He still gained back the usage of one of his best normals in st.LK being cancellable. Chun kept all of her good stuff, same with Claw (he even got a crossup and had one of his nerfs reverted lol), and Sim got a lot of juicy shit. He even got back being able to U1 when a yoga fire is on screen. And then you have Juri being ridiculously buffed.

I'm actually surprised you are complaining.
 

Mortal Komhat

Worst Well-Established Goro Player Ever
He still gained back the usage of one of his best normals in st.LK being cancellable.
It was always cancellable on the first hit. It's cancellable on the second, allowing pretty much a very far hitconfirm among other things.. Still a very good buff.

I'm just hype for Poison, Hugo and Elena to be honest.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
There are very few reverted changes...

Guile and Sagat were the only ones you listed who actually caught the nerf bat from arcade to console...but Sagat only really got nerfed with tiger shots and some damage reductions. He still gained back the usage of one of his best normals in st.LK being cancellable. Chun kept all of her good stuff, same with Claw (he even got a crossup and had one of his nerfs reverted lol), and Sim got a lot of juicy shit. He even got back being able to U1 when a yoga fire is on screen. And then you have Juri being ridiculously buffed.

I'm actually surprised you are complaining.
My characters have lost all of their most important buffs.

- Dhalsim has lost two hits on st.MK.

- Guile has lost auto-correct ultra combo 1.

- Sagat has gained more recovery frames on Tiger Shots and lost damage on key normal attacks. Only the second hit of st.LK can be canceled.

- Seth is Kano 3.o.

Sagat will probably be high mid tier. The others will be mid tier except Seth, who will be worthless at any level of play.

The game sucks, fool.
 

Skkra

PSN: Skkra
90% of the buffs to characters like Chun Li, Claw, Dhalsim, Guile, Sagat, etc. have been reverted. Ultra Street Fighter IV may as well be called Super Street Fighter IV AE 2012 Delayed Wake Up Edition. Nothing else is new. Innovation is seriously lacking.

It is a shame that this overrated piece of garbage is going to be the golden standard in fighting games tournaments for years to come.
To be fair, outside of the power of unblockable vortexes and a few low-tier characters, 2012 is a really solid game. Over the last year we've seen a lot of characters people said were no good come up due to dedicated specialists. Valmaster crushing lately with his Chun has been amazing to watch... she has seemed like one of the characters who simply wasnt competitively viable, but he's proved otherwise.

Delayed Wakeup is, I guess, an answer to the vortexes and unblockables. Not my preferred method to fix the issue for sure, but Capcom did what they did. I'm personally psyched for the new Chun and Hawk. We'll see how console turns out - who knows, they may even patch it further - but for now I'm going to wait and see how it plays out.
 
Based on the balance and system changes, here's my prediction on the USF4 tier list:

S+: Evil Ryu, Rose, Chun Li
S: Yun, Yang, C.Viper, Rolento, Juri, Dudley, Cammy, Ibuki
A: Guy, Decapre, Akuma, Vega, T.Hawk, El Fuerte, Guile, Hakan, Oni, Ken, Ryu, Sagat, Fei Long
B: Abel, Adon, Balrog, Blanka, Cody, Elena, E.Honda, Gouken, Hugo, M.Bison, Makoto
C: Poison, Dee Jay, Rufus, Gen, Sakura, Zangief
D: Dan, Dhalsim, Seth
Something interesting regarding Poison , I think she will end up being quite good , She has a relatively good neutral .I don't know if U1 is as good as it was in the previous builds but it was excellent as an AA and very comboable with a decent damage too . 1000HP i think too which is always good and 3F cr.lp which is also nice , along with a LMT that apparently jump over projectile at least in previous builds . I just think she will atleast end up in the B tier .
 

Justice

Noob
Why would there be patches for new characters? Lol
Oh I dunno. Maybe because the game has been out in Japanese arcades for a couple of months and they may need them? Not every company releases crap and then waits for players to bitch before they patch. Anywho, they were released eventually :D

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/may/23/ultra-street-fighter-4-balance-changes-poison-hugo-rolento-and-elena/


How is that not a reward? You are getting something that people had to learn for free just because you thought it was too hard.
I'm an expert on this topic. Because kombos don't mean shit if you can't land them. If you don't have the proper spacing, frame advantage or even situation for said kombo, you're gonna get blown up anyway. What adding easier inputs and shortcuts do is allow the low-level player and the scrub feel like they have a chance so that they are more likely to want to stick with said game and learn the fundamentals to become better players. Also keep in mind that shortcuts are generally limiting beyond a certain point. So said low level player may level up to a point where he is going to tournaments and finding that his method of doing things is actually holding him back. Now he has the incentive to learn "proper execution".

After giving the Poison notes a once-over, it looks like she's already getting nerfed into the ground :( I guess I'm loyal to another bottom-tier character :p