Incredibly difficult logic problem.

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

You guys aren't understanding the fundamental part of the fact that you DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT THE GUARDS ARE SAYING.

The question also states they only answer questions, no gestures.

 

[Pan1cMode]

You guys aren't understanding the fundamental part of the fact that you DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT THE GUARDS ARE SAYING.

The question also states they only answer questions, no gestures.

To be fair, I only added that last clause just then. Although I'd never thought of using gestures to solve the puzzle.

The answer however does not require this.

 

[Juggs]

You don't understand what they are saying.

I edited it, you don't ask them to tell you which path, you ask them to point to it.

So if Guard 1 tells you to go right, Guard 2 tells you to go left, and Guard 3 says he doesn't know, you go which way?

Because in the case that Guard 1 is random but a liar, and guard 2 is a liar, and guard 3 is honest...

If Guard #1 points to the right path, that means that Guard #2 is not the random one. Which means it could be either Guard #1 or Guard #3 that is the random one. So, when you tell Guard #2 to point in the direction that Guard #3 would tell you to go, he will either not point because Guard #3 is the random one, or he will point to the right path regardless if Guard #3 is the truth teller or liar, and regardless if he himself is the truth teller or liar. Because if he's the liar, he will point in the opposite direction of the truth teller; and if he's the truth teller, he will point in the direction the liar would point, which if we assume the correct path is left, he will point to the right.

 

[Pan1cMode]

I edited it, you don't ask them to tell you which path, you ask them to point to it.



If Guard #1 points to the right path, that means that Guard #2 is not the random one. Which means it could be either Guard #1 or Guard #3 that is the random one. So, when you tell Guard #2 to point in the direction that Guard #3 would tell you to go, he will either not point because Guard #3 is the random one, or he will point to the right path regardless if Guard #3 is the truth teller or liar, and regardless if he himself is the truth teller or liar. Because if he's the liar, he will point in the opposite direction of the truth teller; and if he's the truth teller, he will point in the direction the liar would point, which if we assume the correct path is left, he will point to the right.

The guards can't point. They will only answer questions with Da or Ba. They will not gesture.

 

[Zoidberg747]

I feel like it has to do with asking which is the liar.

 

[Doombawkz]

If Guard #1 points to the right path, that means that Guard #2 is not the random one. Which means it could be either Guard #1 or Guard #3 that is the random one. So, when you tell Guard #2 to point in the direction that Guard #3 would tell you to go, he will either not point because Guard #3 is the random one, or he will point to the right path regardless if Guard #3 is the truth teller or liar, and regardless if he himself is the truth teller or liar. Because if he's the liar, he will point in the opposite direction of the truth teller; and if he's the truth teller, he will point in the direction the liar would point, which if we assume the correct path is left, he will point to the right.

But then if he is the truth teller and he points you in the wrong direction, wouldn't that be the same as lying to you?
Also if 1 is a liar then he will tell you the opposite of what the liar would tell you. If guard 2 is also a liar, then he would tell you the opposite of what the truth teller would tell you. The 3rd guard gets no answer.

So you're still stick with left, right, and none.

 

[Doombawkz]

I feel like it has to do with asking which is the liar.

Ba

 

[Juggs]

The guards can't point. They will only answer questions with Da or Ba. They will not gesture.

Why's that? Do they not have arms? Lol...

It needs a better premise if the guards can't point. Make it just 3 walkie talkies or some shit to where you can literally ONLY get verbal answers from them.

 

[Pan1cMode]

If you guys are keen for it, I'll spoiler a clue in the OP.

Why's that? Do they not have arms? Lol...

It needs a better premise if the guards can't point. Make it just 3 walkie talkies or some shit to where you can literally ONLY get verbal answers from them.

The 3 guards are computers that will answer 0 or 1. Better?

Or maybe even;

The guards won't point because they're smug bastards and they don't want you to get their treasure.

 

[Doombawkz]

I liked it better when they could point. That one answer took me a while, dammit.
I don't even care anymore lol.

 

[Juggs]

But then if he is the truth teller and he points you in the wrong direction, wouldn't that be the same as lying to you?
Also if 1 is a liar then he will tell you the opposite of what the liar would tell you. If guard 2 is also a liar, then he would tell you the opposite of what the truth teller would tell you. The 3rd guard gets no answer.

So you're still stick with left, right, and none.

No, you're asking him which way the next guy will point. The truth teller will point in the direction the liar would actually point. The liar will point in the opposite direction that the truth teller would point, because he's going to lie about it. In both cases, they're pointing the the same direction. And you'll know who the random one is because the previous one won't be able to point in any direction because they can't know which direction he will pick.

So in the end, you'll have two Guards pointing in 2 different directions. However, you'll know which one is the random one based on which Guard isn't pointing when you asked about that certain Guard. So, disregard the random one completely, and go the opposite way the other Guard is pointing.

 

[Doombawkz]

No, you're asking him which way the next guy will point. The truth teller will point in the direction the liar would actually point. The liar will point in the opposite direction that the truth teller would point, because he's going to lie about it. In both cases, they're pointing the the same direction. And you'll know who the random one is because the previous one won't be able to point in any direction because they can't know which direction he will pick.

So in the end, you'll have two Guards pointing in 2 different directions. However, you'll know which one is the random one based on which Guard isn't pointing when you asked about that certain Guard. So, disregard the random one completely, and go the opposite way the other Guard is pointing.

So what if guard 1 is random but a liar, guard 2 is truthful, and guard 3 is a liar?

Then you have guard 1 saying to go left, guard 2 saying to go right, and guard 3 not having an answer.
However, if you disregard 1 and go the opposite of 2, you die.

 

[Pan1cMode]

I liked it better when they could point. That one answer took me a while, dammit.
I don't even care anymore lol.

Sorry . Shoulda been more clear from the get go. It never occurred to me to use pointing; clever solution. However, the intended answer doesn't require it at all.

No, you're asking him which way the next guy will point. The truth teller will point in the direction the liar would actually point. The liar will point in the opposite direction that the truth teller would point, because he's going to lie about it. In both cases, they're pointing the the same direction. And you'll know who the random one is because the previous one won't be able to point in any direction because they can't know which direction he will pick.

So in the end, you'll have two Guards pointing in 2 different directions. However, you'll know which one is the random one based on which Guard isn't pointing when you asked about that certain Guard. So, disregard the random one completely, and go the opposite way the other Guard is pointing.

When questioned a paradox or an unknowable, they will answer randomly.

EDIT:

Even then, what if the layout was the following;

Truth Random Liar

You have no way of distinguishing if the last or first person is the truth teller or the liar.

 

[Doombawkz]

Sorry . Shoulda been more clear from the get go. It never occurred to me to use pointing; clever solution. However, the intended answer doesn't require it at all.
.

I'm almost tempted to just hear the answer so I can poke holes in it.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

It has to do with finding just ONE guard that isn't random...... and asking a more well thought out question.
The terms of the question didn't say you couldn't have more than one stipulation.

 

[Pan1cMode]

I'm almost tempted to just hear the answer so I can poke holes in it.

I'll inbox you if you want; although I can assure you there are no holes .

 

[Doombawkz]

I'll inbox you if you want; although I can assure you there are no holes .

Go for it.

It has to do with finding just ONE guard that isn't random...... and asking a more well thought out question.
The terms of the question didn't say you couldn't have more than one stipulation.

The answer you receive is yes or no, and you don't know which is which. :|

 

[Juggs]

So what if guard 1 is random but a liar, guard 2 is truthful, and guard 3 is a liar?

Then you have guard 1 saying to go left, guard 2 saying to go right, and guard 3 not having an answer.
However, if you disregard 1 and go the opposite of 2, you die.

Truth Random Liar

You have no way of distinguishing if the last or first person is the truth teller or the liar.

Man this is really hard to explain in text, lol.

Okay, let me try another way to explain this here.

Let's say Guard #1 is the random, Guard #2 is the truth teller, and Guard #3 is a liar.

_________________________________________________________________________


When you ask Guard #1 which way Guard #2 will point, since Guard #1 is the random one, he will point in either direction. You don't learn any information yet.

When you ask Guard #2 which way Guard #3 will point, since Guard #2 is the truth teller and Guard #3 is the liar, Guard #3 will point in the opposite direction of the correct path. SO, when you ask Guard #2 which way Guard #3 will point, Guard #2 will point in the opposite direction of the correct path. You still don't have much information yet.

The last Guard is the key to it all. Because after you ask him, the previous information now comes into play.

When you ask Guard #3 which way Guard #1 will point, since Guard #1 is the random, Guard #3 will be unable to point in any direction. So now you know that the direction Guard #1 is pointing is completely irrelevant because you don't know if he's telling the truth or lying, because he's random. So basically just kill Guard #1, lol. Now, Guard #2 will be pointing in the opposite direction of the correct direction REGARDLESS if he's the truth teller or liar. Because you asked him to point in the direction that Guard #3 would point if he were to point in the correct direction.

If Guard #2 was the truth teller and Guard #3 was the liar, and assuming LEFT is the correct path, Guard #2 would point to the RIGHT path because that's the direction that the liar would point.

If Guard #2 was the liar and Guard #3 was the truth teller, and assuming LEFT is the correct path, Guard #2 would point to the RIGHT path because he's a liar and knows Guard #3 would point to the LEFT.

 

[Euphoric]

PM me, too lazy to think and this is interesting.

 

[Doombawkz]

Man this is really hard to explain in text, lol.

Okay, let me try another way to explain this here.

Let's say Guard #1 is the random, Guard #2 is the truth teller, and Guard #3 is a liar.

_________________________________________________________________________


When you ask Guard #1 which way Guard #2 will point, since Guard #1 is the random one, he will point in either direction. You don't learn any information yet.

When you ask Guard #2 which way Guard #3 will point, since Guard #2 is the truth teller and Guard #3 is the liar, Guard #3 will point in the opposite direction of the correct path. SO, when you ask Guard #2 which way Guard #3 will point, Guard #2 will point in the opposite direction of the correct path. You still don't have much information yet.

The last Guard is the key to it all. Because after you ask him, the previous information now comes into play.

When you ask Guard #3 which way Guard #1 will point, since Guard #1 is the random, Guard #3 will be unable to point in any direction. So now you know that the direction Guard #1 is pointing is completely irrelevant because you don't know if he's telling the truth or lying, because he's random. So basically just kill Guard #1, lol. Now, Guard #2 will be pointing in the opposite direction of the correct direction REGARDLESS if he's the truth teller or liar. Because you asked him to point in the direction that Guard #3 would point if he were to point in the correct direction.

If Guard #2 was the truth teller and Guard #3 was the liar, and assuming LEFT is the correct path, Guard #2 would point to the RIGHT path because that's the direction that the liar would point.

If Guard #2 was the liar and Guard #3 was the truth teller, and assuming LEFT is the correct path, Guard #2 would point to the RIGHT path because he's a liar and knows Guard #3 would point to the LEFT.

The problem is, none of these guards are pointing until you ask them which was x guard will point, so in reality it'll look like:

Guard 1 is random, so guard 3 can't point.
Guard 2 knows guard 3 can't point because guard 1 prevents it, so he doesn't point.
Guard 1 knows guard 2 can't point because of guard 3 not being able to point, so he doesn't point.

OR

Guard 3 knows guard 1 is random, but doesn't know which way he will point, so guard 3 points in a random direction as guard 1 would is a possibility as well. Just because he isn't sure doesn't mean he can't also do the same.

 

[Eldriken]

PM me, too lazy to think and this is interesting.

I second this. I'd like to know.

 

[Pan1cMode]

Man this is really hard to explain in text, lol.

Okay, let me try another way to explain this here.

Let's say Guard #1 is the random, Guard #2 is the truth teller, and Guard #3 is a liar.

_________________________________________________________________________


When you ask Guard #1 which way Guard #2 will point, since Guard #1 is the random one, he will point in either direction. You don't learn any information yet.

When you ask Guard #2 which way Guard #3 will point, since Guard #2 is the truth teller and Guard #3 is the liar, Guard #3 will point in the opposite direction of the correct path. SO, when you ask Guard #2 which way Guard #3 will point, Guard #2 will point in the opposite direction of the correct path. You still don't have much information yet.

The last Guard is the key to it all. Because after you ask him, the previous information now comes into play.

When you ask Guard #3 which way Guard #1 will point, since Guard #1 is the random, Guard #3 will be unable to point in any direction. So now you know that the direction Guard #1 is pointing is completely irrelevant because you don't know if he's telling the truth or lying, because he's random. So basically just kill Guard #1, lol. Now, Guard #2 will be pointing in the opposite direction of the correct direction REGARDLESS if he's the truth teller or liar. Because you asked him to point in the direction that Guard #3 would point if he were to point in the correct direction.

If Guard #2 was the truth teller and Guard #3 was the liar, and assuming LEFT is the correct path, Guard #2 would point to the RIGHT path because that's the direction that the liar would point.

If Guard #2 was the liar and Guard #3 was the truth teller, and assuming LEFT is the correct path, Guard #2 would point to the RIGHT path because he's a liar and knows Guard #3 would point to the LEFT.

I get what you're saying now. Essentially you weed out the random and it becomes just like the labyrinth problem. That's clever.

However, the intended answer can be done without asking any question that induce paradoxes, have unknowable answers or asking the guards to gesture or point. That's kinda the whole point of Da and Ba. Having them point kinda cheats out of this clause.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

The problem is, none of these guards are pointing until you ask them which was x guard will point, so in reality it'll look like:

Guard 1 is random, so guard 3 can't point.
Guard 2 knows guard 3 can't point because guard 1 prevents it, so he doesn't point.
Guard 1 knows guard 2 can't point because of guard 3 not being able to point, so he doesn't point.

OR

Guard 3 knows guard 1 is random, but doesn't know which way he will point, so guard 3 points in a random direction as guard 1 would is a possibility as well. Just because he isn't sure doesn't mean he can't also do the same.

You can't ask a SINGLE stipulation to get the right answer.

Juggs is super close tho. You are basically trying to pry TWO answers out of one question... which is very do-able.

LOL this is basically a Trig proof.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Man this is really hard to explain in text, lol.

Okay, let me try another way to explain this here.

Let's say Guard #1 is the random, Guard #2 is the truth teller, and Guard #3 is a liar.

_________________________________________________________________________


When you ask Guard #1 which way Guard #2 will point, since Guard #1 is the random one, he will point in either direction. You don't learn any information yet.

When you ask Guard #2 which way Guard #3 will point, since Guard #2 is the truth teller and Guard #3 is the liar, Guard #3 will point in the opposite direction of the correct path. SO, when you ask Guard #2 which way Guard #3 will point, Guard #2 will point in the opposite direction of the correct path. You still don't have much information yet.

The last Guard is the key to it all. Because after you ask him, the previous information now comes into play.

When you ask Guard #3 which way Guard #1 will point, since Guard #1 is the random, Guard #3 will be unable to point in any direction. So now you know that the direction Guard #1 is pointing is completely irrelevant because you don't know if he's telling the truth or lying, because he's random. So basically just kill Guard #1, lol. Now, Guard #2 will be pointing in the opposite direction of the correct direction REGARDLESS if he's the truth teller or liar. Because you asked him to point in the direction that Guard #3 would point if he were to point in the correct direction.

If Guard #2 was the truth teller and Guard #3 was the liar, and assuming LEFT is the correct path, Guard #2 would point to the RIGHT path because that's the direction that the liar would point.

If Guard #2 was the liar and Guard #3 was the truth teller, and assuming LEFT is the correct path, Guard #2 would point to the RIGHT path because he's a liar and knows Guard #3 would point to the LEFT.

the only problem is that the question states "If they do not know... they will answer randomly."
Since you're asking a guard an unknowable question... this will not 100% give you the correct answer.

 

[Fred Marvel]

ive seen this riddle before or a variation of it but i jut woke up and cant think of the answer lol