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Match-up Discussion Official Deathstroke Match-up Chart v3

Ok, so the match up chart says that DS & BG are even, but I've been finding myself getting blown up and bodied by BG A LOT especially with her mix ups and that vortex of hers... What's a good strategy as DS player to combat her mix ups teleports etc?
Always be vigilante for a TP, you can try and keep gunshots in a slight minority to try and bait one. Once you have punished a TP then the BG player will start to show more respect and approach manually. BG players also like to J2 into a B1/B2 to create a 50/50, so always be prepared to anti-air her.
 
In my experience, Batgirl is more so a test of what you know vs what you can deal with. Obviously, backdashing the cartwheel mixup on block is a must, as this will probably be her primary mid ranged tool. Once you can do that, then she'll probably start coming in with her dash > dash shoryu, which now it's time to start stopping her dash with down 2. At this point, now the game will probably revolve around her going for bolas and jumping trying to bait some shots. Bolas are probably best dealt with jumping, although she can delay the bola for a bit, but your jump is so quick that I don't think the delay can actually hit you on the way down.

Another fun thing is that if you delay a standing 3 after your strings and attacks that are severely positive (Foward 3 and foward 2,3 usually), she actually will be hit if she backdashes or jumps, so you can try and condition her to sit still for your 50/50's.

Lastly, another thing to press her on is commiting to doing her extremely unsafe wakeups, Shoryuken and Teleport. You can actually stuff the cartwheel with a well timed meaty, and there are certain setups that end in a crossup forward 3 that will avoid the shoryu and teleport while stuffing cartwheel. Of course this again comes down to delaying wakeups and other mindgames, but scaring her on a knockdown into risking it all is better than leting her run cartwheel on you for days.

I think that Batgirl is very good, but with your very good anti air and low shots, you really force her to take risks in the neutral game to try and score damage. Cartwheel is a really good midrange option, but luckily the mixup can be backdashed, which leaves you with an option against it. To me this sounds like an even matchup.
Thank you @KingHippo & @omegapr1me99 I appreciate the info I took a lot of notes, this will help me get better at understanding the matchup so thank you very much! Also want to ask does DS have a good vortex?
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
Yeah I have been actually using DS a little bit lately (I co-mained him to start the game with Frost before I slid Batgirl in) and I think it is one of those really close matches that could tip a little toward Frost, but probably even. He does have great post slide options. D1 into sword spin is safe and it can be hit-confirmed to knock her back full screen for one bar. J3 being so godlike makes DS's air game tough to beat. Jump back 3's used to stuff naked slide attempts are tougher to trip guard than a lot of other jump attacks.

Low gunshot can be reversed with iceberg from 3/4 screen, so DS has to be careful as KF approaches just outside of F3 range because MB iceberg is a pretty big punish from that distance. KF's need to make sure they have the timing correct on this punish because it affects the MU quite a bit since outside of damage and a setup it at least leads to a quick approach. Slide punishes quick shot from long range... so basically DS just has to be a lot more careful with his gunshots in this MU than a lot of other ones IMO. DS's d1 being a low evens the gap in the MU some for sure.

Thoughts? @GGA Slips @RedRaptor10 @KingHippo @Rampage254
so pretty much both characters need to be careful with their ranged attacks since they can pretty much punish each other after blocking either of them.

and about the trip guard, just how much recovery does ds have on a whiffed jump back 3 once he lands?
 

ryublaze

Noob
I stopped doing 123 ender since most of the time I want to just get them to the corner and not sacrifice damage but I might have to try it out again...
 
I stopped doing 123 ender since most of the time I want to just get them to the corner and not sacrifice damage but I might have to try it out again...
Honestly I only use it against characters like GL or Raven. Free pressure because they can't dash out of it either. I think it's viability is more match up based.
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
your better off ending combo's in 23, its a hard knockdown and far better than 123 since it keeps them pretty darn close and u can control how far they land from u depending on how low u catch them.


132 j2, 1, 323, 23. its a hard knockdown and u can make your crossup pretty ambiguous if u get the correct height. better off going for that than 123 after landing ur 132
 
your better off ending combo's in 23, its a hard knockdown and far better than 123 since it keeps them pretty darn close and u can control how far they land from u depending on how low u catch them.


132 j2, 1, 323, 23. its a hard knockdown and u can make your crossup pretty ambiguous if u get the correct height. better off going for that than 123 after landing ur 132
Ending with 23 is a pain in the ass sometimes, it does open up to good options but I don't think using it online is too viable.
 

Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
To add to the 123 discussion, I also use it as an easier hit-confirm on a crouch-hit on a J3. It's less risky than J3 (HC) Sword Flip.

Because it could go: J3, 12 (HC):
  • Hit: continue with (12)3 into Flying Ninja or usual oki
  • Block: cancel into Sword Spin. Or if I'm feeling gimmicky, cancel into a ghetto 50/50 (12 xx DFMB or LowShots MB)
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
Personally I'm starting to hit down 2 after my j3s, hit or blocked. Down 2 on hit allows for f3, 323 into whatever ender, and also is super safe if blocked. Of course going for the 50/50 is the priority, but it's not a bad idea to throw this in every once in a while.
 
Personally I'm starting to hit down 2 after my j3s, hit or blocked. Down 2 on hit allows for f3, 323 into whatever ender, and also is super safe if blocked. Of course going for the 50/50 is the priority, but it's not a bad idea to throw this in every once in a while.
The scaling is also quite generous considering a D2 is in the combo.
 

Vagrant

Noob
Ending with 23 is a pain in the ass sometimes, it does open up to good options but I don't think using it online is too viable.
Use it to end your combos when your combo carries to an interactable.

Like in atlantis if I punish someone with 132 and I know there's a good chance it will carry to the globe or tablet I'll change my combo to 132 j2 1 323 23 (HKD) bomb

Thats the main thing I use the 23 ender for. definitely has it's uses
 

Vagrant

Noob
last i checked 123 is obsolete, much better options have been discovered.
What are you talking about?

Flying ninja is money against GL. As well as Raven, Joker, and i think more that I'm forgetting.

There is no better meterless vortex option midscreen that has been discovered. This tech is far from obsolete.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Is sword flip a hard knockdown? I am assuming if so you could use flying ninja off of combos ending in that too? I haven't played DS since Batgirl came out and have been trying to level him back up in training mode lately.
 

xInfra Deadx

Gimmick stolen by Jordan Peele
Is sword flip a hard knockdown? I am assuming if so you could use flying ninja off of combos ending in that too? I haven't played DS since Batgirl came out and have been trying to level him back up in training mode lately.
Yeah, Sword Flip is a hard knockdown.
 

Vagrant

Noob
Is sword flip a hard knockdown? I am assuming if so you could use flying ninja off of combos ending in that too? I haven't played DS since Batgirl came out and have been trying to level him back up in training mode lately.
It's HKD but doesn't give you the ambiguos spacing that 123 does. 123 is used for flying ninja because it spaces DS perfectly to time his dash to either cross up j1 or regular j1 while making the wake up whiff. alot of the cast can use some sort of invinc wake up out of it, but the ones that can't get vortexed meterless free.
 

ryublaze

Noob
I've been experimenting with jump 3 d2 too I think it works pretty good. Normally though I like to take my mix-up with b21f2/d1 spin but there's a chance u might drop your b21f2 or ur d1 doesn't reach.
 

ryublaze

Noob
What are you talking about?

Flying ninja is money against GL. As well as Raven, Joker, and i think more that I'm forgetting.

There is no better meterless vortex option midscreen that has been discovered. This tech is far from obsolete.
do you think it's better to go for this setup on GL or end ur combo normally and try to keep him out/zone him?
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
I've been experimenting with jump 3 d2 too I think it works pretty good. Normally though I like to take my mix-up with b21f2/d1 spin but there's a chance u might drop your b21f2 or ur d1 doesn't reach.
Are you just using those options because they are safe? I barely ever used b21f2 when I messed around with him before. What is your follow-up plan?