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Let's Talk Commentating at Majors

I was watching 8WAYRUN stream yesterday and at one point both commentators where arguing over what was a more optimal combo for Shazam and they continued too disagree and argue on what the player should of done different during a completely different match. I know The Break is only a local, but it was annoying me that both commentators were ignoring during the match just too get their point across.
Was that when I was on the mic?


This is the video with me and indecisive commentating. We did mention something about a shazam combo but I felt like it wasnt very long. That match just set me off for some reason because indecisive was being extra critical and you could simply hear it in his tone. I even told him at the end of the video that theres more to commentating thanjust being critical. With that point brought up, isnt that all tom brady does? Or at least use to do when the game first came out. remember that? Every other sentance was, he should have done this, he shouldnt have done that, optimal combo this.




What I think the whole point of this thread is to try to get us to become a little more positive, it's only gonna help up and not hurt us. It will make our community look good as a whole and could potentially open doors for us. It definitely wont close any.
 

GGA Saucy Jack

The artist formerly known as ImNewbieSauce
This needs to come to an end, immediately.


As a streamer, one thing you get used to is people being overly vulgar. You learn to turn them off and not invite them back. See, when you're a streamer and you have sponsors, they expect your stream to be respectable and to represent them in a positive way.

Calling people out is one thing. I agree that commentary can be funny and sometimes less than serious. HOWEVER, it is my experience that the stream chat should NEVER dictate how the commentators call a game.

Commentators should, first and foremost pay attention to the match at hand and commentate it. If they can't do that, they shouldn't be commentating.

There is always filler time. If you're in between matches, you can address the chat and talk off topic.

There is a time and place for call outs and blow ups. On stream during a blow up, of course it's ok...within reason as long as you're not insulting someone. There is a difference between insulting someone and calling them out for not living up to something they said or for not playing up to their ability.



@EMPEROR_JUPITER The way you're talking to people in here is simply unacceptable. EVERYONE should take note that due to your actions, I am watching this thread and I DO NOT give people much leeway. You're on a short leash and very close to a short vacation.

Everyone else please be aware that I am just as willing to hand out vacations for inappropriate behavior.

KEEP IT CIVIL.
I would politely disagree with some of this, if I may.

Not the being civil part, im on board for that 100 percent.

A commentators job is to do whatever the streamer wants them to. While you personally may not like it on your stream, if a streamer wants "whatever it takes to drive numbers", then that is what a commentator should do. If the hype, blow ups, call outs, insults, etc drive numbers, and the streamer says "anything goes, get me to 10K", then thats that.

Im not referring to any specific event or streamer, Im just pointing out that I personally believe it is not as black and white as you stated. It is up to the streamers discretion to regulate their own air waves.
 

Delriach

Sindelly
Actually messaging the commentors isnt terrible. I have been messaged before about my commentary. And people have talked to me about what i need to improve on. I think people doing that is great. I would love if people told me what i need to do to imrpove commentary like they tell me how to imrpove my actual game. And i dont mean saying you suck get off of the mic. Like an example would be when i was commentating Grr Vs Ronald Rogan i did a terrible job. Arma pointed out to me off of the mic what i should do and i was okay with that. i also went up to Ronald Rogan for how bad i did commentating the match. So i feel like giving newer commentators suggestions is a good thing.
Exactly this. There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism. That's why there was a huge difference in quality in 2012 vs 2013 in terms of evo commentary for MK and Injustice. I definitely didn't want to make the same mistakes twice and not wanting to disappoint really makes you want to be better. It does nothing but help.
 

LanceMonsoon

All in on Johnny Football
@zaf to reply to your first point @Vandy showed the rules to the commentators and other then #2 I don't remember any other one being broken I even remember DMS almost saying "fuck" but he stopped it at "fuuu-snap" and I was like why didn't he just say the f word lol? To your second point I have never seen that movie, would you recommend it? And the mods on here could be better, if we want to offer constructive criticism, I feel like we should be allowed to without like 6 mods jumping us.
 

zaf

professor
TYM already is like that movie. lol look at the mods now theres like 2 good ones
I do not need to stoop down to your level and play your game. You and your brother can make shit up and talk all the shit you want about the mods, but that does not make what you say fact.
If people actually read what you write and then compare it to what actually happens, you will just keep making yourselves looks worse.
 

LanceMonsoon

All in on Johnny Football
@9.95 You random scrub!
Woah there tiger, I would never say anything like that about 9.95 phil. He does a lot of stuff for this community, things like the charity streams, being a TO and I'm sure a lot more before I was even a part of this site, so if that's what you are hinting at, no. Other mods on this site however need some "constructive criticism" though.
 

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
Was that when I was on the mic?


This is the video with me and indecisive commentating. We did mention something about a shazam combo but I felt like it wasnt very long. That match just set me off for some reason because indecisive was being extra critical and you could simply hear it in his tone. I even told him at the end of the video that theres more to commentating thanjust being critical. With that point brought up, isnt that all tom brady does? Or at least use to do when the game first came out. remember that? Every other sentance was, he should have done this, he shouldnt have done that, optimal combo this.




What I think the whole point of this thread is to try to get us to become a little more positive, it's only gonna help up and not hurt us. It will make our community look good as a whole and could potentially open doors for us. It definitely wont close any.
I talked to Ronald Rogan About this after the fact. I even told him i was sorry for doing a terrible job on the match. Thank you Arma for telling me in a nice way what i was doing wrong. You were fine during the match i wasnt. Something i just need to work on more.
 

zaf

professor
@zaf to reply to your first point @Vandy showed the rules to the commentators and other then #2 I don't remember any other one being broken I even remember DMS almost saying "fuck" but he stopped it at "fuuu-snap" and I was like why didn't he just say the f word lol? To your second point I have never seen that movie, would you recommend it? And the mods on here could be better, if we want to offer constructive criticism, I feel like we should be allowed to without like 6 mods jumping us.
If you read the OP, you would see crimson said it was not just KIT, but a lot of tournaments in general.
Yes I would recommend the movie.
and lastly, go ahead and criticize us mods. I welcome it. However it is the way you go about yourselves that makes us mods "jump" on you. Watch how you talk to people ( not just mods, but other members), show people respect and have an actual conversation instead of whatever it is you are spewing out. I tell so many people that the way they handle themselves is very unnecessary and that it has zero personal gain for them. So it is really just a waste of everyone's time. If you want to have a better site, then actually contribute to "criticizing" the mods instead of just making up random bullshit to make yourself look like a victim.
 

Killphil

A prop on the stage of life.
@LanceMonsoon you are right. But there is a place for giving feedback to mods. *snipped*. Also I apologize for my post back there, I got a little heated reading it. No hard feelings.

Edited*
 
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STB Shujinkydink

Burning down in flames for kicks
the only person i said anything about was CS until this pherleece dude came in taking sides lol. calm down everybody its tym. mods on this site these days.. smh. so biased to other mods
Kids these days.

Mods are here to keep the site in check. I can think of another site you could post on if you just wanna bash ppl all day

To add to the conversation my pet peeve is when ppl talk to the stream chat instead of watching the match. We should think about assigning commentators as we organize events and go over expectations. Sponsors are affected by lack of professionalism as well
 

zaf

professor
u think i care about how i look on tym? people know i have no problems with anyone except i like to put CS on blast because he was talking shit. ur a joke of a mod and so are 90% of the mods on this site. stay out of my business and stop making everything into a dramatic novel
Yet again, you have no idea what I actually do on the site. So for you to say I am a joke, just shows you do not know what I actually do.

If you are posting on a public forum, that I am set to moderate then this is also my business.
 

SoundsLikePAUSE

Neptune's Beard!!!
This is the video with me and indecisive commentating. We did mention something about a shazam combo but I felt like it wasnt very long. That match just set me off for some reason because indecisive was being extra critical and you could simply hear it in his tone. I even told him at the end of the video that theres more to commentating thanjust being critical. With that point brought up, isnt that all tom brady does? Or at least use to do when the game first came out. remember that? Every other sentance was, he should have done this, he shouldnt have done that, optimal combo this.
That's actually a great example. I'm glad you said something to him about it because that's just annoying to listen to.
 
I see that in typical TYM fashion, 90% of people are too busy talking shit and throwing everyone else's credibiilty into question to actually discus a topic like adults. I know this site is not full of adults, and can't expect adult behavior from it, but still, there is a certain quality of post that I hope to see when spending my time on TYM.

As a moderator, I have to stay neutral, so here's how it is. @CrimsonShadow undeniably did not word his post as well as he should have. It is my personal belief that what he was trying to say was that KIT pools commentary is only what put him over the edge, not necessarily that the commentary was so atrocious that it needed mentioning on the forums. He's not saying the commentary was so bad that it's driving the affected to hide under their blankets and cry for days, so let's stop treating him like it. He has (as always) stayed neutral in his posts. It is alright to identify problems, to identify trends, to ask the community if they can think of any solutions for the issue at hand. The many in opposition of his standpoint make solid points, and they should not be ignored. In keeping with TYM tradition, however, it is how these viewpoints are presented that is problematic.

None of that really matters though. The topic at hand is as follows: Should there be a code of ethics that commentators follow at major tournaments? Should we, as commentators, be presenting ourselves profesionally, in the hopes of attracting sponsors and growing the scene? Should we allow any random guy to get on the microphone, giving them the potential to say whatever they want about whomever they want? Is regulation good or bad, and why? What about from the perspective of streamers and TOs, does a commentator unfairly blowing up players constitute defamation? If yes, does that defamation damage the brand of [insert streamer name here] or [insert tournament name here]?

This isn't personal. This thread isn't a callout on a specific commentator, a specific match, a specific situation. This is meant to be a discussion to move us forward, so we can try to make up our minds as to where the line should be drawn. Currently, everyone thinks that line's in a different spot, and it's turned into a mess of sand with nobody agreeing where boundaries originally lied.

Personally (that is to say, MY opinion, no longer speaking as a moderator), it is my view that none of this discussion matters at all. What we think or say means nothing, and here's why. It comes down to each individual streamer how they want their brand to be represented on Twitch, and by extension the TOs/TDs as well. It could be required of commentators to sign a contract agreeing they will not abrasively slander any entity during their time on the stream. If I woke up tomorrow and was magically Sp00ky, and it was my duty to stream Injustice at EVO, and therefore represent the largest video gaming competition in the world... I would do this. I'd want the integrity of my stream to remain intact, but not to be so restrictive as to make things dull and kill the soul of the FGC. However, not all events are on this scale, and it goes without saying that the commentator's code of ethics would loosen its death grip as events become smaller and smaller profile. If you want to get on the mic at casuals and do your thing, whatever. It's casuals, it's just there for fun and a small entry fee pot. No big deal. But when it comes to majors, it doesn't matter what peons like us think. No matter how much we kick and scream, it all boils down to the people running the events, and how they want their brand to be represented. I suppose that our feedback could be important to them, but they're still gonna do what they're gonna do... and if we don't like it it's up to us to make what we want happen ourselves instead of relying on others.

In closing, I'll ask this question: Do you want the scene to grow, therefore increasing prize payout; or do you want to keep things small, abandon the chance of sponsorship, and have this all be for props? Currently, it's the latter, as the payouts aren't really all that special by an eSports standard. I can see both sides and would rather have some community commentary with a few questionable things here and there, that's what makes the FGC what it actually is. The FGC is the soap opera of the gaming world, and I don't think the FGC wants things any other way. If you want to keep things the way they are, just remember not to quit your day job in order to practice the game. I respectfully disagree with CrimsonShadow, and I hope that this post clarifies the issues that are truly at hand here.
 

9.95

Noob
i can go on vacation and be on tym at the same time, i have a laptop. and this is nobody's business this was between me and crimsonshadow u dont know the details
Then keep it in private messages. The moment you posted this publicly, you made it everyone's business, including mine. If you want it to be private business, then use the private message system.
 

EMPEROR_JUPITER

Your ego betrays you.
Then keep it in private messages. The moment you posted this publicly, you made it everyone's business, including mine. If you want it to be private business, then use the private message system.
thanks for the tip. ill make sure to listen to what you say because your name is green
 

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
Was that when I was on the mic?


This is the video with me and indecisive commentating. We did mention something about a shazam combo but I felt like it wasnt very long. That match just set me off for some reason because indecisive was being extra critical and you could simply hear it in his tone. I even told him at the end of the video that theres more to commentating thanjust being critical. With that point brought up, isnt that all tom brady does? Or at least use to do when the game first came out. remember that? Every other sentance was, he should have done this, he shouldnt have done that, optimal combo this.




What I think the whole point of this thread is to try to get us to become a little more positive, it's only gonna help up and not hurt us. It will make our community look good as a whole and could potentially open doors for us. It definitely wont close any.
Also im sorry that you had to deal with That Arma. Thank you for putting me in my place and telling me to stop. It is much appreciated. Im still learning this whole commentary thing and you have helped me a lot since when i first started.
 

9.95

Noob
I would politely disagree with some of this, if I may.

Not the being civil part, im on board for that 100 percent.

A commentators job is to do whatever the streamer wants them to. While you personally may not like it on your stream, if a streamer wants "whatever it takes to drive numbers", then that is what a commentator should do. If the hype, blow ups, call outs, insults, etc drive numbers, and the streamer says "anything goes, get me to 10K", then thats that.

Im not referring to any specific event or streamer, Im just pointing out that I personally believe it is not as black and white as you stated. It is up to the streamers discretion to regulate their own air waves.
I agree. Each streamer has the right to allow or disallow whatever they'd like on their stream. I have no problem with that.
 

pherleece

Woolay
the only person i said anything about was CS s pherleece dude came in taking sides lol. calm down everybody its tym. mods on this site these days.. smh. so biased to other mods
Im not taking sides. You just talk shit to talk shit. Most people know I'm not to fond of @KingHippo but if it was him I would still stand up for him. And when @9.95 was talking about taking a vacation, he didnt mean it literally
 

9.95

Noob
Woah there tiger, I would never say anything like that about 9.95 phil. He does a lot of stuff for this community, things like the charity streams, being a TO and I'm sure a lot more before I was even a part of this site, so if that's what you are hinting at, no. Other mods on this site however need some "constructive criticism" though.
LOL, I don't mind people joking with me, that was never a problem. I appreciate this post, and while I was harsh in my previous post (which I definitely apologize for), I don't apologize for the message behind it, which is that I don't appreciate people assuming that zero thought goes behind my moderation. I think things out before doing them, especially moderating.
 

Delriach

Sindelly
I do have one tip for commentators. Write the bracket down yourself. Especially if it's just top 8 and there's a large enough gap. There's plenty of time to prepare and it saves you from not knowing what's going on in the brackets. You might be able to get away with it in top 16 too if you have a full list of players. It really makes your life a lot easier.

At Evo we had a page of notes dedicated to each and every player. Some notes were very obvious things (region, characters used, etc). That seems obvious but it's very easy to forget mentioning that stuff for viewers on finals day, which is generally when there's a lot more new people watching. It's also good to have notes on previous matches won and more details like that too. Or maybe if they have a certain pocket character they like using in certain matchups.

At Evo, I took note of every player's road to top 8. For example, Chris G had a pretty tough path, especially compared to others. I think that kind of stuff is really interesting. Or notes like "this guy historically has a difficult time dealing with this matchup". Those kind of stories are really neat. Like for MK and Injustice we really played on the fact that DJT is super patient and is great at blocking. And guess what, he proved that in all the matches he played. In both games. Was a great story.
 
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