MK9 PC Revival Thread:

[Dizzy]

UncleFestor

Wow man, impressive work!

NRS has mentioned what is able to be changed in TweakVars before, as they used them to hotfix certain things before.

You cannot add armor and change whole animations through TweakVars. But there is a lot that is possible as UncleFestor has said, such as changing hit/blockstun, hit level (overhead, low).

To be honest, being able to edit the TweakVars is a big deal and can fix several balance issues, at least. It will limit the buffing that can be done to low tier characters, but will be able to address some of the issues the high tier characters have.

UncleFestor- When people talk about changing recovery this means one of a few things:
1. Changing the animation so that the player is able to act faster or slower than before
2. Changing the hit stun or block stun to be longer or shorter (the state the opponent is put in when hit or block the attack)

I doubt #1 is possible, but #2 should be. For example, Sonya's EX (Enhanced) Cartwheel currently cannot be punished on block. If the block stun (the amount of time from blocking to last hit of the move, to the opponent being able to move) is shortened, then the move could be punished.

That is just one example. I would be happy to assist however I can in the project, as MK9 is still my favorite fighting game.

 

[xSMoKEx]

UncleFestor

Wow man, impressive work!

NRS has mentioned what is able to be changed in TweakVars before, as they used them to hotfix certain things before.

You cannot add armor and change whole animations through TweakVars. But there is a lot that is possible as UncleFestor has said, such as changing hit/blockstun, hit level (overhead, low).

To be honest, being able to edit the TweakVars is a big deal and can fix several balance issues, at least. It will limit the buffing that can be done to low tier characters, but will be able to address some of the issues the high tier characters have.

UncleFestor- When people talk about changing recovery this means one of a few things:
1. Changing the animation so that the player is able to act faster or slower than before
2. Changing the hit stun or block stun to be longer or shorter (the state the opponent is put in when hit or block the attack)

I doubt #1 is possible, but #2 should be. For example, Sonya's EX (Enhanced) Cartwheel currently cannot be punished on block. If the block stun (the amount of time from blocking to last hit of the move, to the opponent being able to move) is shortened, then the move could be punished.

That is just one example. I would be happy to assist however I can in the project, as MK9 is still my favorite fighting game.

This is pretty much what I meant. I know it's very hard to physically add/remove frames because then things end up looking choppy and it's also a lot of work to mess with animations.

Changing if a move does / doesn't have armor isn't too big a deal honestly, I think it's pretty universally agreed upon that safe armor is pretty broken in the game (Minus things that can be blown up pretty easily and don't have a large reward like Jax's Ex Elbow Smash) so as long as the block advantage is changeable that will definitely suffice.

I actually didn't know that you could edit hitbox levels so easily, that's pretty awesome actually. It would allow for better balance for a low tiers who really lack some good lows and mids, and we could potentially fix hitbox issues on characters like Jax and Kabal who have F413 and 2~NDC respectively that only hit on certain characters, causing a huge imbalance with those large hitbox characters.

It's really great to hear that all of this is possible using the TweakVars. Honestly a few basic frame data changes could work wonders for this game.

 

[TomlulsBrady]

If your gonna patch mk9 here are my list of demands. I want Jax gotcha grab to go back being plus on block like it was on day 1, I always thought that was better for him than buffing up his zoning, and I want the second hit of f413 not to whiff on nobody in exchange you can have his reset and his glitch advantage on f413. Thank you and that will be all guys.

 

[Dizzy]

You misunderstand. Hit boxes wouldn't be changed, just that it is flagged as overhead, low, or neither. Stuff like jaxes f413 string being changed wouldn't be possible.

Remember kanos f4 got changed to low in a hot fix. That didn't change the hit box at all, just changed the value of the move to low. That's what would be able to be changed.

Sadly itd be tough or impossible to change much of the top tiers balance through tweakvars.

 

[TomlulsBrady]

You misunderstand. Hit boxes wouldn't be changed, just that it is flagged as overhead, low, or neither. Stuff like jaxes f413 string being changed wouldn't be possible.

so it changes the description telling us the hit level for a move but not the actually move itself? Then whats the point of giving us that option if its only for description purposes? Well than in that case I want jaxs 21 to have the same startup as his 12(you can nerf his 12 as a trade), and I still want my gotcha grab to go back to its original attributes.

 

[Dizzy]

so it changes the description telling us the hit level for a move but not the actually move itself? Then whats the point of giving us that option if its only for description purposes? Well than in that case I want jaxs 21 to have the same startup as his 12(you can nerf his 12 as a trade), and I still want my gotcha grab to go back to its original attributes.

No it doesnt change the hitbox, just the value. For example, you could change jump attacks to be low if you really wanted so all jump attacks had to be crouch blocked, but it wouldn't actually change the hitbox.

 

[xSMoKEx]

You misunderstand. Hit boxes wouldn't be changed, just that it is flagged as overhead, low, or neither. Stuff like jaxes f413 string being changed wouldn't be possible.

Remember kanos f4 got changed to low in a hot fix. That didn't change the hit box at all, just changed the value of the move to low. That's what would be able to be changed.

Sadly itd be tough or impossible to change much of the top tiers balance through tweakvars.

Oh so you could make a high jab like Smoke's 2 be a low so that it would need to be crouch blocked for example.

EDIT: NVM saw that you just answered this... Interesting. Could still prove useful changing some low tier strings, characters like Baraka and Quan already have some wonky looking overheads so it's not too big a deal. Also, moves like Noob's F3 and Nightwolf's F3 already look like they could be lows

 

[UncleFestor]

UncleFestor

Wow man, impressive work!

NRS has mentioned what is able to be changed in TweakVars before, as they used them to hotfix certain things before.

You cannot add armor and change whole animations through TweakVars. But there is a lot that is possible as UncleFestor has said, such as changing hit/blockstun, hit level (overhead, low).

To be honest, being able to edit the TweakVars is a big deal and can fix several balance issues, at least. It will limit the buffing that can be done to low tier characters, but will be able to address some of the issues the high tier characters have.

UncleFestor- When people talk about changing recovery this means one of a few things:
1. Changing the animation so that the player is able to act faster or slower than before
2. Changing the hit stun or block stun to be longer or shorter (the state the opponent is put in when hit or block the attack)

I doubt #1 is possible, but #2 should be. For example, Sonya's EX (Enhanced) Cartwheel currently cannot be punished on block. If the block stun (the amount of time from blocking to last hit of the move, to the opponent being able to move) is shortened, then the move could be punished.

That is just one example. I would be happy to assist however I can in the project, as MK9 is still my favorite fighting game.

Actually #1 is very doable thru the TweakVars { And NRS is slick cause there is a ton of floats outside the tweakvars that's in one of the other tables we can adjust for various other elements} TweakVars is just the most suitable for Character Patching.

Okay so we can adjust the delay after hit - till next hit of most combos for most characters. We can adjust animation delays as well. Change the delay after blocked attack, Reduce animation reaction to Hit/Miss for certain attacks. Etc. That is all listed in My Scorpion TweakVars Map I Posted earlier you guys should check it out to get a better understanding of everything that we can tweak.

If you look closely @ the Sub-Scorpion vids you'll see that I shortened the "animation loop delay till next move after successful hit" floats for his Attack 1_1_1_ & attack 1_1_4 combos essentially causing him to reset faster after connecting with the combo.

Now as far as changing reaction for Opponent That I haven't determined yet cause I test all the floats I find in practice mode by my self. So I would need to have someone who is skilled @ playing to see if those floats exist {They should} However each character does have floats for their own Block reaction times { I mean reaction time to go into & out of a block stance} so I would think they put other stuff in there as well. It will require more testing and some team effort on our part to fully understand every float.

As far as Hit-Box Type, yes every character has different "Floats" for each type of Hit-Box

 

[MKF30]

It's kool. I was mainly using your post as a reference really. I get asked alot to change Game Mechanics which are impossible to do {My fault for posting the vids I've posted lol }

There are other tables in the MKScriptBinary that affect other aspects of every character but they will take an extremely long time to map out as I have no reference to what section is floats/strings/boolean so it's a lot of trial & error using extreme Neg/Pos values to see if it changes anything.

I do know that you can change stage placement & gravity in one of the tables {Data1 I think } eventually I'll get around to mapping out scorpions which will help me with other characters.


On that note. If anyone wants to lend a hand in mapping tables {You'll need @least some Knowledge of hex editing } Let me know and I'll send you some tools which you can use to extract all the tables from a characters mko, change the variables, and reimport it back into the character for testing

EDIT : I forgot to mention I can change HitBox type for various attacks {Low, Med, High, Unblockable}

Yeah. Hey btw, nice avatar lol Did you make Kintaro look like the guy from Thundercats? lol

I like all the cool mods on the PC version though, that is sweet. Hopefully once MK 10 hits they release all versions around the same time.

 

[SAREDODEVIL]

kabal just need iafb more slow starup animation.

 

[TomlulsBrady]

No it doesnt change the hitbox, just the value. For example, you could change jump attacks to be low if you really wanted so all jump attacks had to be crouch blocked, but it wouldn't actually change the hitbox.

okay, so their are two properties here hitlevel, and the hitbox. We have the ability to change hit level but that won't change the actually hitbox which is the reason why attacks like jax f413 whiffs on certain chars? Sounds like you need a good modder.

 

[UncleFestor]

No it doesnt change the hitbox, just the value. For example, you could change jump attacks to be low if you really wanted so all jump attacks had to be crouch blocked, but it wouldn't actually change the hitbox.

Correct. That's my fault I should've explained it better

 

[UncleFestor]

okay, so their are two properties here hitlevel, and the hitbox. We have the ability to change hit level but that won't change the actually hitbox which is the reason why attacks like jax f413 whiffs on certain chars? Sounds like you need a good modder.

Well that's not really true. you can extend the "Reach" of pretty much every single move That would be the actual Hit-Box {How close to Character Model till it registers as a hit} we can change that.

The Hit_Box type I was referring to is whether the attack registers as a Low, Medium, High, or Unblockable attack {Requiring the needed block type for the corresponding attack}

So we can change both those floats for a sweep kick and it'll actually hit the standing opponent on his face instead of his legs {Just an example}

 

[UncleFestor]

btw I can't take sole credit for the tweakvars findings. That was initially discovered by LilGrim, I just mapped out scoppion to get a better understanding of what the floats can do, which lead to DigitalOverdose creating a more robust bms script for the tables.

 

[SAREDODEVIL]

btw I can't take sole credit for the tweakvars findings. That was initially discovered by LilGrim, I just mapped out scoppion to get a better understanding of what the floats can do, which lead to DigitalOverdose creating a more robust bms script for the tables.

DO it, cant wait to get mk9 for pc

 

[legion666]

UncleFestor you are working on a morphing character? For mk9? But can you let Shang turn into other characters without the use of soul steal like the ladder boss Shang does in the game ( into at least two other characters)???

 

[SAREDODEVIL]

@UncleFestor you are working at a morphing character? For mk9? But can you let Shang turn into other characters without the use of soul steal like the ladder boss Shang does in the game ( into at least two other characters)???

thats problably be broken IMO

 

[legion666]

thats problably be broken IMO

Not really if he doesn't get the damage boost( when done without the use of soul steal) and gets only 2 other characters to morph into for 5 sec regular morph and 8 sec Ex

 

[G4S Claude VonStroke]

I hope people who played the game at the highest level offline are consulted about balance changes, like REO, Dizzy, etc. This way there can be little argument, if we leave it up to the community, it will come out like shit. A camel is a horse designed by committee!

 

[xSMoKEx]

I hope people who played the game at the highest level offline are consulted about balance changes, like REO, Dizzy, etc. This way there can be little argument, if we leave it up to the community, it will come out like shit. A camel is a horse designed by committee!

Yeah it's going to be people like REO, Detroit (if he still plays, not sure tbh), Dizzy, Curbo, etc. People who not only understand what it means to play this game at a high level, but are also fair as far as character balance goes. If this is to be done seriously it's going to be need to handled via PM and suggestions must be thoroughly thought out, because changing things takes a lot of work; last thing anyone wants is some downplayer making their character stupidly broken because it just creates more work for the people involved, being selfless is key here.

 

[G4S Claude VonStroke]

REO, CD Bros, Dizzy, Tyrant, Pig would be enough to consult and make the best versi

Yeah it's going to be people like REO, Detroit (if he still plays, not sure tbh), Dizzy, Curbo, etc. People who not only understand what it means to play this game at a high level, but are also fair as far as character balance goes. If this is to be done seriously it's going to be need to handled via PM and suggestions must be thoroughly thought out, because changing things takes a lot of work; last thing anyone wants is some downplayer making their character stupidly broken because it just creates more work for the people involved, being selfless is key here.

Agreed best not to make it public until it's done.

 

[TomlulsBrady]

I think tom should be consulted too as long as he has no input on anything regarding jax.

 

[UncleFestor]

UncleFestor you are working on a morphing character? For mk9? But can you let Shang turn into other characters without the use of soul steal like the ladder boss Shang does in the game ( into at least two other characters)???

That's something @HowardC & I are currently looking into. He already released an app a few months ago that allows you to morph into 3 different characters with ShangTsung {You use a config file to list the Characters you want to cycle through}

We are planning on expanding on that. Not sure if we can activate the Boss Script inside Shangs Char package yet.

But our goal is to have the character initiate the 1st morph (0 DMG, 0 Boost, No Opp reaction} and then cycle through all the characters @ certain intervals ( every 5 or 10 seconds for example) this would create a true Chameleon Character sorta like the one in the Challenge Tower but better

 

[SAREDODEVIL]

That's something @HowardC & I are currently looking into. He already released an app a few months ago that allows you to morph into 3 different characters with ShangTsung {You use a config file to list the Characters you want to cycle through}

We are planning on expanding on that. Not sure if we can activate the Boss Script inside Shangs Char package yet.

But our goal is to have the character initiate the 1st morph (0 DMG, 0 Boost, No Opp reaction} and then cycle through all the characters @ certain intervals ( every 5 or 10 seconds for example) this would create a true Chameleon Character sorta like the one in the Challenge Tower but better

IM FUCKING HYPEEEEEEEEEEE

 

[UncleFestor]

that's funny gif lol

But it's still a ways off. We both have other projects that need to be wrapped up 1st.